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Post by geoff321 on May 19, 2017 14:34:11 GMT
The key question is whether the turn down in results is permanent or temporary. In the 68 years, post war, prior to the Hughes appointment Stoke had finished in the top 9 three times,in percentage terms 4.4%.
Under Hughes Stoke have finished in the top 9 three times in four years, in percentage terms 75%.
People wonder why Coates might be reluctant to sack Hughes, perhaps the above figures show why.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on May 19, 2017 15:05:38 GMT
By sticking with Hughes as i assume they will Coates is taking a huge gamble this is no blip & will see us fighting a relegation battle next season. Call it what you like loyalty stubbornness or down right pig headed i don,t care what the fans think Coates & the board are showing a great lack of ambition at a time when we are awash with money & will never have a better chance to really move forward & do something.
There seems to be a mentality of small time thinking about everything the club do i.e. the ground & how long its taken to fill in a corner & now we have a manager & staff who are clearly failing & unable to turn things round seemingly being backed by the board which is going to end up with us back in the wilderness.
I like Peter Coates & think he has done wonders for the club but maybe its time to step aside & let someone else take the reins with a new approach & fresh ideas.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2017 15:09:01 GMT
By sticking with Hughes as i assume they will Coates is taking a huge gamble this is no blip & will see us fighting a relegation battle next season. Call it what you like loyalty stubbornness or down right pig headed i don,t care what the fans think Coates & the board are showing a great lack of ambition at a time when we are awash with money & will never have a better chance to really move forward & do something. There seems to be a mentality of small time thinking about everything the club do i.e. the ground & how long its taken to fill in a corner & now we have a manager & staff who are clearly failing & unable to turn things round seemingly being backed by the board which is going to end up with us back in the wilderness. I like Peter Coates & think he has done wonders for the club but maybe its time to step aside & let someone else take the reins with a new approach & fresh ideas. The corner should have been filled in 3 or 4 years ago. The TV corner is a cheap and nasty job. The ambition? 9th, entertainment, passion, excitement, youth, and cup runs is all I expect as a goal. We should have a squad that can compete for 9th, maybe push for 8th. |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on May 19, 2017 15:23:54 GMT
One not so good season out of 4 isn't that bad il judge him at the end of next season But hasn't he already has his 'judge him at the end of next season' moment? Last season was going well untill the turn of the year then it all fell away. Some people started calling for the managers head right there & then, but they were quite rightly shouted down & told how this was the first bad patch Hughes had hit & surely he deserved another season to see if he could put things right. Then we had this season... |
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Post by TexasPotter on May 19, 2017 15:34:17 GMT
Pretty fair assessment and the real frustration of the failure to sign decent players. Imbula and the other three out on loan is the most frustrating thing I've seen by a management team at the club ohh and the fact the one good infield signing is now at an Impasse with the club. If we don't land Bruno I am going to be beyond pissed 😡
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2017 15:36:26 GMT
It's baffling. The players must feel like giving up., And Saido. Our problem child. Our waif. Our forlorn goalless wonder..... Everything is fucking wank. Especially our support(before the usual suspects chime in). A new broom is needed, but we are to tight and safe to buy one. My dad used to say Stoke had no ambition and he was right...the miserable Welsh bastard.  Isn't that the default setting for all the Welsh ? GD |
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Post by heworksardtho on May 19, 2017 16:01:53 GMT
One not so good season out of 4 isn't that bad il judge him at the end of next season But hasn't he already has his 'judge him at the end of next season' moment? Last season was going well untill the turn of the year then it all fell away. Some people started calling for the managers head right there & then, but they were quite rightly shouted down & told how this was the first bad patch Hughes had hit & surely he deserved another season to see if he could put things right. Then we had this season... You have remember we are a 9th -14th side in the prem no more no less until we have some serious investment so on that hughesy is doing his job |
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Post by superheroantonius on May 19, 2017 16:03:12 GMT
James whitaker is just giving an objective fact based report.
Basically a view of our club as it looks to people on the outside.
So it's not surprising pretty much Everybody agrees with what he has to say.
What will be surprising is if coates doesn't act at the end of the season (as is rumoured)
Shortly after the Southampton game is stokes one and only chance to get themselves out of the hole they are now in.
They have to show good players with offers on the table from the likes of west ham Southampton west Brom stoke etc, that they have put what whitaker says behind them and are now firmly on the up and back in business.
Or those players won't come to the bet365 and will choose to go elsewhere
Imo I cannot possibly see how the club are going to do that without a change of manager
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Post by trigger on May 19, 2017 16:17:47 GMT
It's as obvious as we'll lose Sunday and how Coates still supports Hughes is beyond me. Hughes hasn't got a friggin clue what to do about the whole situation he's caused and players obviously don't want to play for him, he's got to go, simple.
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Post by march4 on May 19, 2017 16:21:01 GMT
I still think he will be sacked next week.
No other decision would make any sense whatsoever.
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Post by butler64 on May 19, 2017 16:24:37 GMT
Spot on, and the way I feel. I would give him a maximum of four games at the start of next season, presuming he is still here, and if not winning any of those four games, it would be bye bye Mark, time to move on! I'd say that if the view was to give him a maximum of 4 games next season, then the decision needs to be made now to either back him for the whole season or to part ways now and allow someone new to come in and have the preseason to prepare. If those first 4 games next season are similar to this season's (a newly promoted club away - Middlesbrough, home to Man City, Away to Everton, Home to Tottenham) then realistically how many points would we expect and what would the criteria be for Hughes to keep his job? The last 10 games alone where we have won 1, drawn 3 and lost 6, should provide sufficient evidence for the owners to make a decision now. If we suffer a heavy defeat on Sunday, that should confirm that they need to make a decision now rather than wait until next season. The current style of play, lack of ability to motivate the team, the constant changing of the team and not sticking to a settled side or formation are all enough to say to me that the Board need to seriously question how Hughes is going to put this right. I believe that one of the reasons that over the last 10 years or so where we have done well is down to the fact that we have had stability and not chopped and changed our manager every other season. However, there comes a point when difficult decisions have to be made and we are at that point now. Cheers GB |
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Post by CalgaryPotter on May 19, 2017 16:25:45 GMT
If we concede 3 or more without scoring I think he is toast.
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Post by stokiejoe on May 19, 2017 16:29:29 GMT
Excellent article, totally agree. Also understand the blip comment, next season has not only got to be safe but something very special if the decline is to be halted.
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Post by cheshirepotter on May 19, 2017 16:50:48 GMT
Our league position has absolutely nothing - or very little - to do with the way I, and many others, feel at the moment. .. The league position is very important though isn't it, from a financial point of view and a recruitment point of view. It's also important as a quite possible 16th place finish will validate the views of those saying that the 9th (FFS) place finish last season, varnished over a whole host of problems, problems that the manager has worsened rather than corrected. I still can't for the life of me think that absolutely no one will pay with their job for this fiasco of a season. Yes you're right the league position is important as you say and I think I read we could be c. £11M worse off then an 8th /9th finish. Big bucks. |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on May 19, 2017 16:51:55 GMT
By sticking with Hughes as i assume they will Coates is taking a huge gamble this is no blip & will see us fighting a relegation battle next season. Call it what you like loyalty stubbornness or down right pig headed i don,t care what the fans think Coates & the board are showing a great lack of ambition at a time when we are awash with money & will never have a better chance to really move forward & do something. There seems to be a mentality of small time thinking about everything the club do i.e. the ground & how long its taken to fill in a corner & now we have a manager & staff who are clearly failing & unable to turn things round seemingly being backed by the board which is going to end up with us back in the wilderness. I like Peter Coates & think he has done wonders for the club but maybe its time to step aside & let someone else take the reins with a new approach & fresh ideas. The corner should have been filled in 3 or 4 years ago. The TV corner is a cheap and nasty job. The ambition? 9th, entertainment, passion, excitement, youth, and cup runs is all I expect as a goal. We should have a squad that can compete for 9th, maybe push for 8thThat's literally all I want, we got fucking none of that this year. |
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Post by mattador78 on May 19, 2017 17:17:48 GMT
Let's be honest though it's not a decline as such more a stagnation. A decline would be relegation selling off our major assets and a mound of toxic debt, that is villa,Leeds,Pompey and Sunderland as prime examples. I agree this season has been the worst of Hughes reign but it's been another mental season in the league with over and under performance from a lot of teams but instead of any real streaks of form we have just plodded on where other teams in or around our position have been a about as consistent as a shit after 12 pints of Guinness and a dirty kebab at 4 in the morning. The decision comes down to our owners though the discussions behind closed doors are theirs and theirs alone so for now we just have to roll with it and support the team. I know I will be here longer than Hughes or any of the current playing staff so fuck it I know I've seen a lot worse and like a dozy bastard I will still be there even if we drop like a stone for 30years again🤦🏻♂️ Sad aren't i
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2017 17:28:30 GMT
I wouldn't be that bothered if Mark Hughes and his cohorts got the push, but who to bring in wouldn't be an easy decision!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2017 20:15:59 GMT
Another well written piece that charts our decline over the last 18 months. We have all lauded Hughes' top nine finishes, but as Whitaker says the poor form over the last 18 months means that is one third of Hughes' tenure as manager here. I think Coates is wrong to dismiss the views of a signifcant section of the loyal fan base, myself included. It is niot a cse of anger, more one of disappoinment that we have fallen from the high standards we have set. Ah James Whitaker. I always liked him - lovely voice. He whistles so well also. |
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Post by GoBoks on May 19, 2017 21:54:44 GMT
James whitaker is just giving an objective fact based report. Basically a view of our club as it looks to people on the outside. So it's not surprising pretty much Everybody agrees with what he has to say. What will be surprising is if coates doesn't act at the end of the season (as is rumoured) Shortly after the Southampton game is stokes one and only chance to get themselves out of the hole they are now in. They have to show good players with offers on the table from the likes of west ham Southampton west Brom stoke etc, that they have put what whitaker says behind them and are now firmly on the up and back in business. Or those players won't come to the bet365 and will choose to go elsewhere Imo I cannot possibly see how the club are going to do that without a change of manager Objective? " embarrassment of a 36 year old top scorer". Errrrrrr is ManU also "embarrassed at the age of their top scorer? To be objective you need to cut out the subjective qualitative dross that is so often inserted into reports masquerading as "fact". There is so much spin in everything we read, it's no wonder that we can't even tell objective from subjective any more. |
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Post by swampySCFC on May 19, 2017 22:08:33 GMT
Im a big supporter of Stoke and the Managers. Best manager.....Macari....Gudjon...(Waddo excepted)
Different Leagues I know but Pulis got us where we are. This season we have taken a dip and I am sure Hughes recognises that so game on for next season
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Post by crapslinger on May 19, 2017 22:27:57 GMT
Im a big supporter of Stoke and the Managers. Best manager.....Macari....Gudjon...(Waddo excepted) Different Leagues I know but Pulis got us where we are. This season we have taken a dip and I am sure Hughes recognises that so game on for next season A dip, a blip  eighteen months of regression really. |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 7:02:27 GMT
If he stays, I want him to succeed but he starts next season with zero credit remaining. As if he'd just taken the job. Exciting/anxious/worrying/fun summer ahead, It's fun to not know whats happening! |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 20, 2017 12:14:12 GMT
One not so good season out of 4 isn't that bad il judge him at the end of next season But hasn't he already has his 'judge him at the end of next season' moment? Last season was going well untill the turn of the year then it all fell away. Some people started calling for the managers head right there & then, but they were quite rightly shouted down & told how this was the first bad patch Hughes had hit & surely he deserved another season to see if he could put things right. Then we had this season... Yup! He should have been sacked at the end of last season though of that I'm sure. |
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Post by davyboy on May 21, 2017 8:19:07 GMT
The problem with giving Hughes 4 games at the start of the season is that a new manager coming in would have to work with a squad not of his choosing. Far better to bite the bullet staright away and give a new manager tiome to asses the squad and the team's needs. I would like to see Mancini or the Hudersfield manager come in. We must question Hughes' tactics and game management with a half decent squad. Look at Crystal Palace transformation under Big Sam or Conte at Chelsea with very much the same squads
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Post by choppyc on May 21, 2017 8:53:34 GMT
I can only imagine that those saying Give Hughes more time to turn it around ,never actually go to the game &
at best must watch online,these last 18 months ?
Because I've seen nothing in the last 18 months to indicate it's nothing but a terminal Decline in the Hughes leadership.
It is seriously starting to look very similar to the Sunderland situation of being rock bottom & the board thinking
"But he used to be good ?! He MUST be the man for the job "....
as in that example,it's looking increasingly like Hughes isn't the man to change the decline .
The usual natural cycle for a manager is 3 or 4 seasons ( obvious exceptions withstanding ) It wouldn't reflect badly on Coates
initial decision to employ Hughes.So I just don't understand this misguided loyalty to the man .
For god sake please 'dress it up ' as mutual if you have to Coates , but we really do need a new man in charge to rejuvenate the
Team,players & the fans.
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Post by choppyc on May 21, 2017 8:55:42 GMT
Another well written piece that charts our decline over the last 18 months. We have all lauded Hughes' top nine finishes, but as Whitaker says the poor form over the last 18 months means that is one third of Hughes' tenure as manager here. I think Coates is wrong to dismiss the views of a signifcant section of the loyal fan base, myself included. It is niot a cse of anger, more one of disappoinment that we have fallen from the high standards we have set. Ah James Whitaker. I always liked him - lovely voice. He whistles so well also. One for the kids there |
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Post by ursemboys on May 21, 2017 9:12:44 GMT
Again we have sack him get rid blah blah ,so we sack him like a fair few want , who replaces him ? Look at who is available do we really want them instead ? My personal view is there is only one manger PC will replace Hughes with and he is about to leave his club so unless that happens we are stuck with Mark Hughes who I personally think is still the right man for the club
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Post by wearestoke80 on May 21, 2017 9:30:27 GMT
No mention of our awful injury record at the back end of last season as a potential reason for us falling away? And you can't point the finger at Hughes' transfer policy then in the next breath hold Grant's success up as a yardstick for our decline when it was Hughes that brought him in despite him "never playing Premier League football" But all in all a fair summary..... Every team has injury problems, pathetic excuse. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 9:35:32 GMT
No mention of our awful injury record at the back end of last season as a potential reason for us falling away? And you can't point the finger at Hughes' transfer policy then in the next breath hold Grant's success up as a yardstick for our decline when it was Hughes that brought him in despite him "never playing Premier League football" But all in all a fair summary..... Every team has injury problems, pathetic excuse. Excuse no. A factor yes |
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Post by crapslinger on May 21, 2017 9:38:26 GMT
No mention of our awful injury record at the back end of last season as a potential reason for us falling away? And you can't point the finger at Hughes' transfer policy then in the next breath hold Grant's success up as a yardstick for our decline when it was Hughes that brought him in despite him "never playing Premier League football" But all in all a fair summary..... Every team has injury problems, pathetic excuse. Apparently it only affects Stoke, doesn't help your cause when you sign injury prone players. |
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eighteen months of regression really.
