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Post by kustokie on Jan 28, 2017 19:14:12 GMT
Of course I wasn't missing but 12 weeks (and it wasn't that long) over 3 years isn't much is it? I lean more towards his good spell being a blip rather than the norm. Surely the ACL injury is more of a cause of that than anything else. Name any other player that has become a better player or reached the level they were at after having that injury! Unfortunately in my view that is what has caused the bad form he is now showing. It's rare for an athlete, especially those that rely on agility and the ability to change direction or speed quickly to recover completely from a ruptured ACL. I said this when it happened and royally slagged off for not knowing what I was talking about. Not going to say I told you so but... |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 28, 2017 19:16:30 GMT
Of course I wasn't missing but 12 weeks (and it wasn't that long) over 3 years isn't much is it? I lean more towards his good spell being a blip rather than the norm. Surely the ACL injury is more of a cause of that than anything else. Name any other player that has become a better player or reached the level they were at after having that injury! Unfortunately in my view that is what has caused the bad form he is now showing. So he's damaged goods as well? Makes him even less of a 15m player then surely? |
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Post by kustokie on Jan 28, 2017 19:20:40 GMT
Surely the ACL injury is more of a cause of that than anything else. Name any other player that has become a better player or reached the level they were at after having that injury! Unfortunately in my view that is what has caused the bad form he is now showing. So he's damaged goods as well? Makes him even less of a 15m player then surely? I think we'll be lucky to get half that. Still a tidy profit except for the fact we'll need to pay 15 million to replace him, which means we are 7.5 million actually 7.5 out of pocket. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 19:22:30 GMT
Of course I wasn't missing but 12 weeks (and it wasn't that long) over 3 years isn't much is it? I lean more towards his good spell being a blip rather than the norm. Surely the ACL injury is more of a cause of that than anything else. Name any other player that has become a better player or reached the level they were at after having that injury! Unfortunately in my view that is what has caused the bad form he is now showing. I'm in disbelief, it's like a joint effort from 90% of stoke fans to completely wipe October - March of last season. |
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Post by Dingdangdoo on Jan 28, 2017 19:23:24 GMT
Sadly he's lost his pace and spark. The injury most likely the cause.
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Post by Kjones9 on Jan 28, 2017 19:26:52 GMT
My God there are some real 'weapons' supporting Stoke City thesedays snobbishly judging Bojan Krkic as 'not good enough for us anymore' Hhmmm. I'm not quite sure you can judge anybody about what they think about players tone. |
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Post by brinsleymaclagan on Jan 28, 2017 19:30:45 GMT
Of course I wasn't missing but 12 weeks (and it wasn't that long) over 3 years isn't much is it? I lean more towards his good spell being a blip rather than the norm. Surely the ACL injury is more of a cause of that than anything else. Name any other player that has become a better player or reached the level they were at after having that injury! Unfortunately in my view that is what has caused the bad form he is now showing. The football played by Stoke against Man City, the Shit and Everton was the best football by a Stoke team since the 70's, or possibly ever! We could have got back to that if everyone hadn't lost their nerve and panicked. We are talking about giving away probably the most talented Stoke player since Hudson-I cannot believe what I'm reading on here, I feel physically sick that anyone can mention Bojan and Walters in the same breath. |
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Post by kustokie on Jan 28, 2017 19:32:41 GMT
My God there are some real 'weapons' supporting Stoke City thesedays snobbishly judging Bojan Krkic as 'not good enough for us anymore' Why is it considered disloyal to tell it the way it is? If a player's not good enough he needs to move on for his own sake and for the sake of the club. What am I missing? |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2017 20:01:14 GMT
Surely the ACL injury is more of a cause of that than anything else. Name any other player that has become a better player or reached the level they were at after having that injury! Unfortunately in my view that is what has caused the bad form he is now showing. It's rare for an athlete, especially those that rely on agility and the ability to change direction or speed quickly to recover completely from a ruptured ACL. I said this when it happened and royally slagged off for not knowing what I was talking about. Not going to say I told you so but...
He's had plenty of excellent performances since he came back from injury.
Indeed Hughes gave him a FIVE AND HALF YEAR contract six months after he returned from injury.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2017 20:03:49 GMT
Surely the ACL injury is more of a cause of that than anything else. Name any other player that has become a better player or reached the level they were at after having that injury! Unfortunately in my view that is what has caused the bad form he is now showing. I'm in disbelief, it's like a joint effort from 90% of stoke fans to completely wipe October - March of last season.
It's astonishing fraise ... 
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jan 28, 2017 20:17:59 GMT
As I've previously said, no need to worry about Boj going when Stephen Ireland is waiting in the wings to come storming back into the fold.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 20:30:54 GMT
Boj has been let down by the unbalanced and underperforming engine room as well as Hughes keeping with the Joe no. 10 experiment after his punt was rewarded early on in the season.
Bojer isn't blameless but can still play a crucial part in this squad. Thought he was excellent against Leicester before Christmas. Not enough chances since to capture any form.
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Post by metalhead on Jan 28, 2017 20:37:05 GMT
If we let Bojan go, my trust in Hughes will be seriously damaged.
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Post by kustokie on Jan 28, 2017 20:38:01 GMT
It's rare for an athlete, especially those that rely on agility and the ability to change direction or speed quickly to recover completely from a ruptured ACL. I said this when it happened and royally slagged off for not knowing what I was talking about. Not going to say I told you so but...
He's had plenty of excellent performances since he came back from injury.
Indeed Hughes gave him a FIVE AND HALF YEAR contract six months after he returned from injury.
Obviously we don't know the details; however, I suspect they gave him a 5 and 1/2 year contract as a hedge to increase his resale value. All it guarantees is his paycheck and becomes null and void if he, or more likely, his agent request a transfer. I'm sure he'd happier be playing for another team on the same wages if it means he doesn't have to sit on the bench. If Stoke transfer him anyway, they would negotiate to recover their costs from the buyer. I'd be surprised if the contract didn't include all kinds of clauses to cover incentives for appearances, goals, assists, etc. It's called pay for performance. |
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Post by butlerstbob on Jan 28, 2017 20:42:45 GMT
It's rare for an athlete, especially those that rely on agility and the ability to change direction or speed quickly to recover completely from a ruptured ACL. I said this when it happened and royally slagged off for not knowing what I was talking about. Not going to say I told you so but...
He's had plenty of excellent performances since he came back from injury.
Indeed Hughes gave him a FIVE AND HALF YEAR contract six months after he returned from injury.
I wouldn't say plenty excellent, a few yes, and equally the same if not more bad performances, he just isn't the same player! |
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Post by numpty40 on Jan 28, 2017 20:47:00 GMT
It says more about the manager. The manager gave him every minute of pre season and was rewarded with the most selfish, pathetic performance you could wish to see v Middlesbrough. He then added to that horror show with the most gutless, pathetic performance you could wish to see v palace and was rightly dropped. I think his continued omission from the team says everything about the player to be honest. He's had his chances and he's failed dismally to take them Had his chances? This has become a myth created on this board. He's started 5 games in total this season and not two consecutive full games but is still our second top league goalscorer! A special talent and you don't get too many coming along in the lifetime of a Stoke fan!!! But hey, we might get £12m for him. I couldn't give a shit if we got 12p or £30m for him. A few people rewriting history to support their argument, Bojan is always the scapegoat for a team poor performance. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2017 20:50:26 GMT
He's had plenty of excellent performances since he came back from injury.
Indeed Hughes gave him a FIVE AND HALF YEAR contract six months after he returned from injury.
Obviously we don't know the details; however, I suspect they gave him a 5 and 1/2 year contract as hedge to increase his resale value. All it guarantees is his paycheck and becomes null and void if he, or more likely, his agent request a transfer. I'm sure he'd happier playing for another team on the same wages if it means he doesn't have to sit on the bench. If Stoke transfer him anyway, they would negotiate to recover their costs from the buyer. I'd be surprised if the contract didn't include all kinds of clauses to cover incentives for appearances, goals, assists, etc. It's called pay for performance.
No, we obviously do know the details actually, well the important one anyway, that being ... that football clubs don't give out brand new contracts worth 65k a week to a player for 5 and a half years (that's £18.5 MILLION in wages they're committing to) if there is any doubt in their mind whatsoever that the player hasn't recovered from his injury.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 28, 2017 20:50:26 GMT
The manager gave him every minute of pre season and was rewarded with the most selfish, pathetic performance you could wish to see v Middlesbrough. He then added to that horror show with the most gutless, pathetic performance you could wish to see v palace and was rightly dropped. I think his continued omission from the team says everything about the player to be honest. He's had his chances and he's failed dismally to take them Had his chances? This has become a myth created on this board. He's started 5 games in total this season and not two consecutive full games but is still our second top league goalscorer! A special talent and you don't get too many coming along in the lifetime of a Stoke fan!!! But hey, we might get £12m for him. I couldn't give a shit if we got 12p or £30m for him. A few people rewriting history to support their argument, Bojan is always the scapegoat for a team poor performance. He was shite v boro, shite v Man City, even worse v palace and his substitute appearances haven't been great. The only people rewriting history are those who feel he deserves more of a chance than he's been given. |
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Post by kustokie on Jan 28, 2017 20:50:28 GMT
The manager gave him every minute of pre season and was rewarded with the most selfish, pathetic performance you could wish to see v Middlesbrough. He then added to that horror show with the most gutless, pathetic performance you could wish to see v palace and was rightly dropped. I think his continued omission from the team says everything about the player to be honest. He's had his chances and he's failed dismally to take them Had his chances? This has become a myth created on this board. He's started 5 games in total this season and not two consecutive full games but is still our second top league goalscorer! A special talent and you don't get too many coming along in the lifetime of a Stoke fan!!! But hey, we might get £12m for him. I couldn't give a shit if we got 12p or £30m for him. A few people rewriting history to support their argument, Bojan is always the scapegoat for a team poor performance. that's all true except for one small detail: the coaches watch him every day in training (at least I hope they do). So they should know better than anyone if he deserves a chance. |
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Post by fraybentos on Jan 28, 2017 20:54:08 GMT
As I've previously said, no need to worry about Boj going when Stephen Ireland is waiting in the wings to come storming back into the fold. That's what's worrying |
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Post by numpty40 on Jan 28, 2017 20:54:55 GMT
Had his chances? This has become a myth created on this board. He's started 5 games in total this season and not two consecutive full games but is still our second top league goalscorer! A special talent and you don't get too many coming along in the lifetime of a Stoke fan!!! But hey, we might get £12m for him. I couldn't give a shit if we got 12p or £30m for him. A few people rewriting history to support their argument, Bojan is always the scapegoat for a team poor performance. He was shite v boro, shite v Man City, even worse v palace and his substitute appearances haven't been great. The only people rewriting history are those who feel he deserves more of a chance than he's been given. Everyone was shite v Man City and Palace, he was a pretty average v Boro. As I said he's the scapegoat for a poor Stoke performances. Who do you blame for the 4 goal defeats against Spurs and Liverpool? |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jan 28, 2017 20:55:33 GMT
As I've previously said, no need to worry about Boj going when Stephen Ireland is waiting in the wings to come storming back into the fold. That's what's worrying Top, top player is Stephen. |
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Post by kustokie on Jan 28, 2017 20:56:58 GMT
Obviously we don't know the details; however, I suspect they gave him a 5 and 1/2 year contract as hedge to increase his resale value. All it guarantees is his paycheck and becomes null and void if he, or more likely, his agent request a transfer. I'm sure he'd happier playing for another team on the same wages if it means he doesn't have to sit on the bench. If Stoke transfer him anyway, they would negotiate to recover their costs from the buyer. I'd be surprised if the contract didn't include all kinds of clauses to cover incentives for appearances, goals, assists, etc. It's called pay for performance.
No, we obviously do know the details actually, well the important one anyway, that being ... that football clubs don't give out brand new contracts worth 65k a week to a player for 5 and a half years (that's £18.5 MILLION in wages they're committing to) if there is any doubt in their mind whatsoever that the player hasn't recovered from his injury.
Do we know how much of that is guaranteed and how much is based on performance? In any case, it's a type of illusionary contract because they don't have to pay up if he asks for a transfer. So if he's miserable sitting in the bench, or even worse, he's dropped from the squad, his agent will work something out (same as Teixiera, there's more money involved but the principle is the same). I know it's a lot of money but once you get used to a certain standard of living, life becomes pretty miserable when you are don't feel appreciated by your boss and your work mates. Kudos on the Oatcake only go so far. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 20:57:30 GMT
Had his chances? This has become a myth created on this board. He's started 5 games in total this season and not two consecutive full games but is still our second top league goalscorer! A special talent and you don't get too many coming along in the lifetime of a Stoke fan!!! But hey, we might get £12m for him. I couldn't give a shit if we got 12p or £30m for him. A few people rewriting history to support their argument, Bojan is always the scapegoat for a team poor performance. He was shite v boro, shite v Man City, even worse v palace and his substitute appearances haven't been great. The only people rewriting history are those who feel he deserves more of a chance than he's been given. I don't think he was shite vs city, i thought he looked bright and we could've got back into it in the second half. He was excellent vs Leicester, and relatively bright vs chelsea and west ham when he came on (was involved in a goal in both) The people rewriting history are those ignoring his good performances to justify the fact that Hughes is scared to play flair players, because the midfield is so weak without both Geoff and Glenn playing. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2017 20:57:49 GMT
He's had plenty of excellent performances since he came back from injury.
Indeed Hughes gave him a FIVE AND HALF YEAR contract six months after he returned from injury.
I wouldn't say plenty excellent, a few yes, and equally the same if not more bad performances, he just isn't the same player!
Just off the top of my head, Man Citeh, Arsenal, ManU, Southampton, Everton, I'm sure there's several more if I really thought about it.
Since the start of 2016 the ENTIRE side hasn't been playing well and Hughes has been forced into not playing with a proper number 10 (nothing to do with Bojan per se) because his midfield has become so unbalanced by his purchases (or indeed lack of appropriate purchases).
Johnson, Shawcross, Pieters, Adam, Whelan, Walters, Crouch, Shaqiri, Arnie, Imbula have all had plenty of stinkers too.
It's probably best for all parties if Bojan does move on but the demonisation of him on here by some people really is staggering.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 28, 2017 20:57:58 GMT
He was shite v boro, shite v Man City, even worse v palace and his substitute appearances haven't been great. The only people rewriting history are those who feel he deserves more of a chance than he's been given. Everyone was shite v Man City and Palace, he was a pretty average v Boro. As I said he's the scapegoat for a poor Stoke performances. Who do you blame for the 4 goal defeats against Spurs and Liverpool? I thought we played pretty well v Spurs actually but that defeat goes down firmly at the feet of given. Take your pick for Liverpool. Johnson, shawcross, imbula, crouch. Could have been anyone. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 28, 2017 21:01:14 GMT
I wouldn't say plenty excellent, a few yes, and equally the same if not more bad performances, he just isn't the same player!
Just off the top of my head, Man Citeh, Arsenal, ManU, Southampton, Everton, I'm sure there's several more if I really thought about it.
Since the start of 2016 the ENTIRE side hasn't been playing well and Hughes has been forced into not playing with a proper number 10 (nothing to do with Bojan per se) because his midfield has become so unbalanced by his purchases (or indeed lack of appropriate purchases).
Johnson, Shawcross, Pieters, Adam, Whelan, Walters, Crouch, Shaqiri, Arnie, Imbula have all had plenty of stinkers too.
It's probably best for all parties if Bojan does move on but the demonisation of him on here by some people really is staggering.
Demonisation?  I don't think you could find a single stoke fan who wouldn't be willing him to recapture his best form in a stoke shirt. It is all too easy to blame someone or something else. He needs to look a little closer to home, sort his head out, knuckle down and actually prove he's worth a place in the team |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2017 21:01:29 GMT
No, we obviously do know the details actually, well the important one anyway, that being ... that football clubs don't give out brand new contracts worth 65k a week to a player for 5 and a half years (that's £18.5 MILLION in wages they're committing to) if there is any doubt in their mind whatsoever that the player hasn't recovered from his injury.
Do we know how much of that is guaranteed and how much is based on performance? In any case, it's a type of illusionary contract because they don't have to pay up if he asks for a transfer. So if he's miserable sitting in the bench, or even worse, he's dropped from the squad, his agent will work something out (same as Teixiera, there's more money involved but the principle is the same). I know it's a lot of money but once you get used to a certain standard of living, life becomes pretty miserable when you are don't feel appreciated by your boss and your work mates. Kudos on the Oatcake only go so far.
As I said football clubs don't give out those contracts if there is any doubt whatsoever in their minds that the player hasn't fully recovered from his injury.
To try and spin it any other way, is just daft.
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Post by numpty40 on Jan 28, 2017 21:01:32 GMT
Everyone was shite v Man City and Palace, he was a pretty average v Boro. As I said he's the scapegoat for a poor Stoke performances. Who do you blame for the 4 goal defeats against Spurs and Liverpool? I thought we played pretty well v Spurs actually but that defeat goes down firmly at the feet of given. Take your pick for Liverpool. Johnson, shawcross, imbula, crouch. Could have been anyone. I think it's a certainty that if Bojan had played against Spurs you would have included that game in the list of Bojan's shit games |
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Post by kustokie on Jan 28, 2017 21:02:49 GMT
He was shite v boro, shite v Man City, even worse v palace and his substitute appearances haven't been great. The only people rewriting history are those who feel he deserves more of a chance than he's been given. I don't think he was shite vs city, i thought he looked bright and we could've got back into it in the second half. He was excellent vs Leicester, and relatively bright vs chelsea and west ham when he came on (was involved in a goal in both) The people rewriting history are those ignoring his good performances to justify the fact that Hughes is scared to play flair players, because the midfield is so weak without both Geoff and Glenn playing. He was great against Leicester - I know because I was there (how could I forget? Ugh!). However, no-one is rewriting history. If the coaches don't believe he's the best available, they'll pick someone else - that's how it works. Whether the coaches know what they are doing is a separate question. |
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