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Post by bristolpotter123 on Nov 28, 2016 12:25:52 GMT
After watching yesterdays game it seems to me a few things are apparent on how Mark Hughes sees his squad.
Defenders : It doesn't look as though he thinks any of the under 21/23 guys are up to even a bench spot as no defender was on the subs bench , a risky and unusual choice if anyone was up to it. Also Muniesa wont be going unless additional defenders come in in January.
Diouff : He isn't seen as a first choice forward but can do a nuisance value role out wide , and lets be honest he isn't close to Moses and some of the other names mentioned as a wing back , but fair play he put in a good shift yesterday.
Bojan : Is slipping slowly out of the picture and behind Shaq and Allen in a number 10 role .
Walters : In my opinion past his sell by date but the manager sees him as a good option.
Bony : Not really trusted and maybe they already know he's going in January.
Ramadan : Work in progress and I cant think anyone would prefer him to Shaq or Arnie.
Verlinden : Possibly pushing as hard as Ramadan for a place.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Nov 28, 2016 12:50:22 GMT
Players are dropped when not in form. This is as it should be. It doesnt mean that Hughes doesnt want them involved in the long-term.
Sobhi should have been brought on 20 minutes from the end to help relieve the pressure.
Hughes' is scared of making substitutions until the final 15 minutes of a game and then often makes the wrong subs. Hes not learning in that department
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 28, 2016 12:58:27 GMT
The manager clearly trusts the ability of his players. That much was evident in his pre-match SKY interview.
He isn't one for focusing on injuries or anything of the sort. He trusts in his players ability and knows that whatever side he fields, if they play to their ability, will be a match for anyone in this league.
I like that confidence. It's a pity some of our supporters don't have the same faith in the group of players and the manager himself.
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Papst
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 58
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Post by Papst on Nov 28, 2016 13:02:47 GMT
After watching yesterdays game it seems to me a few things are apparent on how Mark Hughes sees his squad. Defenders : It doesn't look as though he thinks any of the under 21/23 guys are up to even a bench spot as no defender was on the subs bench , a risky and unusual choice if anyone was up to it. Also Muniesa wont be going unless additional defenders come in in January. Diouff : He isn't seen as a first choice forward but can do a nuisance value role out wide , and lets be honest he isn't close to Moses and some of the other names mentioned as a wing back , but fair play he put in a good shift yesterday. Bojan : Is slipping slowly out of the picture and behind Shaq and Allen in a number 10 role . Walters : In my opinion past his sell by date but the manager sees him as a good option. Bony : Not really trusted and maybe they already know he's going in January. Ramadan : Work in progress and I cant think anyone would prefer him to Shaq or Arnie. Verlinden : Possibly pushing as hard as Ramadan for a place. That's how you think mate. And i'm pretty much in agreement. But then again i'm not Mark Hughes and neither are you cupcake  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 13:03:49 GMT
The manager clearly trusts the ability of his players. That much was evident in his pre-match SKY interview. He isn't one for focusing on injuries or anything of the sort. He trusts in his players ability and knows that whatever side he fields, if they play to their ability, will be a match for anyone in this league. I like that confidence. It's a pity some of our supporters don't have the same faith in the group of players and the manager himself. So you have faith in Walters now then do you? |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 28, 2016 13:20:57 GMT
The manager clearly trusts the ability of his players. That much was evident in his pre-match SKY interview. He isn't one for focusing on injuries or anything of the sort. He trusts in his players ability and knows that whatever side he fields, if they play to their ability, will be a match for anyone in this league. I like that confidence. It's a pity some of our supporters don't have the same faith in the group of players and the manager himself. So you have faith in Walters now then do you? I have faith in the group and their ability to get results yes. I have faith that the good players in our team can, on any given day, carry shit like Walters, just like they did yesterday!  I have ultimate faith in our manager's ability to send the team out to at least attempt to win a game, regardless of the opposition and there is no doubt in my mind that a top half finish will be the norm more often than not, whilst he remains in charge. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 28, 2016 13:30:26 GMT
If you were being kind you would say his management of Mame Diouf has been peculiar.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 28, 2016 13:42:00 GMT
If you were being kind you would say his management of Mame Diouf has been peculiar. Don't they all do peculiar things? There is nowt as peculiar as playing Walters week after week, be that from the start or from the bench. It still doesn't alter the fact that he gets the job done and keeps delivering a team that picks up results and finishes in the top half of the table. This season will be no different regardless of what you think of his handling of Diouf, what I think of his continued selection of Walters or what Bayern thinks about the sense of his substitutions. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 28, 2016 13:44:14 GMT
If you were being kind you would say his management of Mame Diouf has been peculiar. Don't they all do peculiar things? There is nowt as peculiar as playing Walters week after week, be that from the start or from the bench. It still doesn't alter the fact that he gets the job done and keeps delivering a team that picks up results and finishes in the top half of the table. This season will be no different regardless of what you think of his handling of Diouf, what I think of his continued selection of Walters or what Bayern thinks about the sense of his substitutions. He's the best manager we could expect to have, absolutely no doubt. |
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Post by WhyDelilah on Nov 28, 2016 13:45:53 GMT
He makes players play for the shirt. That's how it should be.
Bony hasn't quite produced the goods just yet and probably warranted a drop to the bench. Bojan was dreadful last week and suffered the same fate.
When players play well, they get rewarded. That make shift side yesterday did brilliantly.
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Post by paulkoz on Nov 28, 2016 14:16:28 GMT
The only thing you can assume, is not to assume anything
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Post by ElworthPotter on Nov 28, 2016 14:44:17 GMT
After watching yesterdays game it seems to me a few things are apparent on how Mark Hughes sees his squad. Defenders : It doesn't look as though he thinks any of the under 21/23 guys are up to even a bench spot as no defender was on the subs bench , a risky and unusual choice if anyone was up to it. Also Muniesa wont be going unless additional defenders come in in January. Diouff : He isn't seen as a first choice forward but can do a nuisance value role out wide , and lets be honest he isn't close to Moses and some of the other names mentioned as a wing back , but fair play he put in a good shift yesterday. Bojan : Is slipping slowly out of the picture and behind Shaq and Allen in a number 10 role . Walters : In my opinion past his sell by date but the manager sees him as a good option. Bony : Not really trusted and maybe they already know he's going in January. Ramadan : Work in progress and I cant think anyone would prefer him to Shaq or Arnie. Verlinden : Possibly pushing as hard as Ramadan for a place. Think it would be harsh to say Verlinden is pushing as hard as Ramadan for a first team place. There's a big gap between doing well for the reserves and actually having a few very decent performances in the first team, which Ramadan now has under his belt. If Verlinden was to come on ahead of Ramadan at any point then he'd have a reason to be a bit pissed off IMO. |
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Post by lordb on Nov 28, 2016 20:58:16 GMT
After watching yesterdays game it seems to me a few things are apparent on how Mark Hughes sees his squad. Defenders : It doesn't look as though he thinks any of the under 21/23 guys are up to even a bench spot as no defender was on the subs bench , a risky and unusual choice if anyone was up to it. Also Muniesa wont be going unless additional defenders come in in January.yt? Diouff : He isn't seen as a first choice forward but can do a nuisance value role out wide , and lets be honest he isn't close to Moses and some of the other names mentioned as a wing back , but fair play he put in a good shift yesterday. Bojan : Is slipping slowly out of the picture and behind Shaq and Allen in a number 10 role . Walters : In my opinion past his sell by date but the manager sees him as a good option. Bony : Not really trusted and maybe they already know he's going in January. Ramadan : Work in progress and I cant think anyone would prefer him to Shaq or Arnie. Verlinden : Possibly pushing as hard as Ramadan for a place. Think it would be harsh to say Verlinden is pushing as hard as Ramadan for a first team place. There's a big gap between doing well for the reserves and actually having a few very decent performances in the first team, which Ramadan now has under his belt. If Verlinden was to come on ahead of Ramadan at any point then he'd have a reason to be a bit pissed off IMO. Verlinden might get a go in January when Ramadan is away with Egypt. If Verlinden can step up that's four talented wide players which is great news. |
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Post by alster on Nov 28, 2016 21:43:04 GMT
If you were being kind you would say his management of Mame Diouf has been peculiar. Very much so, really surprises me that MBD still gives him everything. Every credit to Diouf I couldn't/wouldn't personally, there again people I worked for always found me difficult even though I was usually very competent at whatever I did. |
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 28, 2016 22:10:25 GMT
If you were being kind you would say his management of Mame Diouf has been peculiar. Very much so, really surprises me that MBD still gives him everything. Every credit to Diouf I couldn't/wouldn't personally, there again people I worked for always found me difficult even though I was usually very competent at whatever I did. Why do you think Hughes picks Walters? Managers expect more than competence. They expect commitment and loyalty and employees who are prepared to go the extra mile. |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 28, 2016 22:26:11 GMT
I reckon...
Part badger, part fox, Welsh polecat yer dunner want to cross.
Bit of the serene swan where most of the action is below the water too.
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Post by kustokie on Nov 28, 2016 22:28:52 GMT
Very much so, really surprises me that MBD still gives him everything. Every credit to Diouf I couldn't/wouldn't personally, there again people I worked for always found me difficult even though I was usually very competent at whatever I did. Why do you think Hughes picks Walters? Managers expect more than competence. They expect commitment and loyalty and employees who are prepared to go the extra mile. Yes, but don't confuse activity for productivity. Walters does a lot of running around but rarely amounts to much these days. |
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Post by kustokie on Nov 28, 2016 22:30:08 GMT
If you were being kind you would say his management of Mame Diouf has been peculiar. Very much so, really surprises me that MBD still gives him everything. Every credit to Diouf I couldn't/wouldn't personally, there again people I worked for always found me difficult even though I was usually very competent at whatever I did. You? Difficult? I am gobsmacked! |
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Post by elystokie on Nov 29, 2016 6:59:26 GMT
After watching yesterdays game it seems to me a few things are apparent on how Mark Hughes sees his squad. Defenders : It doesn't look as though he thinks any of the under 21/23 guys are up to even a bench spot as no defender was on the subs bench , a risky and unusual choice if anyone was up to it. Also Muniesa wont be going unless additional defenders come in in January. Diouff : He isn't seen as a first choice forward but can do a nuisance value role out wide , and lets be honest he isn't close to Moses and some of the other names mentioned as a wing back , but fair play he put in a good shift yesterday. Bojan : Is slipping slowly out of the picture and behind Shaq and Allen in a number 10 role . Walters : In my opinion past his sell by date but the manager sees him as a good option. Bony : Not really trusted and maybe they already know he's going in January. Ramadan : Work in progress and I cant think anyone would prefer him to Shaq or Arnie. Verlinden : Possibly pushing as hard as Ramadan for a place. Agree with a lot of that. Not the last 2 points tho, only seen limited amounts of each player and against very different levels of opposition but I'd say Ramadan is miles ahead of Verlinden. |
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Post by alster on Nov 29, 2016 8:03:11 GMT
Very much so, really surprises me that MBD still gives him everything. Every credit to Diouf I couldn't/wouldn't personally, there again people I worked for always found me difficult even though I was usually very competent at whatever I did. Why do you think Hughes picks Walters? Managers expect more than competence. They expect commitment and loyalty and employees who are prepared to go the extra mile. In my experience they value commitment, loyalty and a sunny outlook laced with a sprinkling of ass kissing over and above competence and thats obviously not right for the job unless the aforementioned are actually necessary to the task. |
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 29, 2016 11:33:08 GMT
Why do you think Hughes picks Walters? Managers expect more than competence. They expect commitment and loyalty and employees who are prepared to go the extra mile. In my experience they value commitment, loyalty and a sunny outlook laced with a sprinkling of ass kissing over and above competence and thats obviously not right for the job unless the aforementioned are actually necessary to the task. I think any manager worth his salt can spot the difference between a loyal and committed employee and a sycophant. Obviously competence is essential to success, in fact it is a legal requirement in many jobs these days, but a manager knows his chance of delivering success is far better with a team with members who are committed and loyal to the cause. That's why I said in my post above a manager wants more than just competence. How he gets that loyalty and commitment is largely down to his policies, style and ability to manage and not just the employees characters. |
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Post by alster on Nov 29, 2016 12:11:03 GMT
In my experience they value commitment, loyalty and a sunny outlook laced with a sprinkling of ass kissing over and above competence and thats obviously not right for the job unless the aforementioned are actually necessary to the task. I think any manager worth his salt can spot the difference between a loyal and committed employee and a sycophant. Obviously competence is essential to success, in fact it is a legal requirement in many jobs these days, but a manager knows his chance of delivering success is far better with a team with members who are committed and loyal to the cause. That's why I said in my post above a manager wants more than just competence. How he gets that loyalty and commitment is largely down to his policies, style and ability to manage and not just the employees characters. You're obviously a fan of the management class. I'm not in my experience they've been people who learn to parrot what the higher ups want to hear an more often than not weren't even any good at the job they got promoted from. They normally have a problem with people who say it how they see it and their idea of flexibility is you doing what they want when they want you to do it. Thats public sector management anyhow, I had very few good managers, mainly the sort you say no to just because they're asking. |
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Post by djduncanjames on Nov 29, 2016 22:46:50 GMT
After watching yesterdays game it seems to me a few things are apparent on how Mark Hughes sees his squad. Ramadan : Work in progress and I cant think anyone would prefer him to Shaq or Arnie. I want to see him in the side WITH Arnie and Shaq! Shaq's awesome in the middle |
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 29, 2016 23:55:58 GMT
I think any manager worth his salt can spot the difference between a loyal and committed employee and a sycophant. Obviously competence is essential to success, in fact it is a legal requirement in many jobs these days, but a manager knows his chance of delivering success is far better with a team with members who are committed and loyal to the cause. That's why I said in my post above a manager wants more than just competence. How he gets that loyalty and commitment is largely down to his policies, style and ability to manage and not just the employees characters. You're obviously a fan of the management class. I'm not in my experience they've been people who learn to parrot what the higher ups want to hear an more often than not weren't even any good at the job they got promoted from. They normally have a problem with people who say it how they see it and their idea of flexibility is you doing what they want when they want you to do it. Thats public sector management anyhow, I had very few good managers, mainly the sort you say no to just because they're asking. Astute man, alster; I was appointed to my first manager's job in 1975, and have lost count of how many jobs I've done for the 4 firms I've worked for in various parts of the country. Sorry to hear you have not enjoyed many good managers in the public sector. Where ever I've worked success was dependent on the people who worked for you, otherwise you weren't in the job for very long, so you had to make sure people were motivated and capable to do what was necessary, which generally means attending to their individual and group needs and giving them respect. Personally I've never had a problem with an employee voicing his views or opinions, even one's who didn't support Stoke! Most of them actually supported, Newcastle, Sunderland, Boro, or Swansea, with a sprinkling of all the other clubs, including glory seekers. Seriously though if you can't earn the respect and trust of the employees as a manager, you and the business you manage are not going to achieve its potential success. I'm proud to say that whenever I moved on from a job I was always given a very generous and affectionate send off. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, my mother was born in Basford and before I was elevated to the management class, I did work on the shop floor in bakeries, a pot bank, for security firms, and on delivery vans among other jobs, before qualifying for an engineering job, which led to me becoming "a boss" and working my way up the corporate ladder. The only advantage I was given was by attending Ellison Street Junior school, I passed my 11+, which most kids did at that school in the 50s, and got a place at Wolstanton Grammar, which meant I was probably lucky to have an advantage over secondary modern kids. I regularly come on here and defend Mark Hughes and his predecessor, because I empathise with their problems, although I have never managed a football team. I have been involved in running sporting ventures in a voluntary capacity, and even had a go at refereeing once, which is not to be recommended! I think MH is an excellent manager and we are very lucky to have him. I also think the players think a lot of him as well, although he has the invidious task of disappointing most of them at least some of the time. |
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Post by kustokie on Nov 30, 2016 1:27:50 GMT
I think any manager worth his salt can spot the difference between a loyal and committed employee and a sycophant. Obviously competence is essential to success, in fact it is a legal requirement in many jobs these days, but a manager knows his chance of delivering success is far better with a team with members who are committed and loyal to the cause. That's why I said in my post above a manager wants more than just competence. How he gets that loyalty and commitment is largely down to his policies, style and ability to manage and not just the employees characters. You're obviously a fan of the management class. I'm not in my experience they've been people who learn to parrot what the higher ups want to hear an more often than not weren't even any good at the job they got promoted from. They normally have a problem with people who say it how they see it and their idea of flexibility is you doing what they want when they want you to do it. Thats public sector management anyhow, I had very few good managers, mainly the sort you say no to just because they're asking. That seems to be consistent with your earlier comment about being a "difficult" employee! |
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Post by kustokie on Nov 30, 2016 1:34:12 GMT
You're obviously a fan of the management class. I'm not in my experience they've been people who learn to parrot what the higher ups want to hear an more often than not weren't even any good at the job they got promoted from. They normally have a problem with people who say it how they see it and their idea of flexibility is you doing what they want when they want you to do it. Thats public sector management anyhow, I had very few good managers, mainly the sort you say no to just because they're asking. Astute man, alster; I was appointed to my first manager's job in 1975, and have lost count of how many jobs I've done for the 4 firms I've worked for in various parts of the country. Sorry to hear you have not enjoyed many good managers in the public sector. Where ever I've worked success was dependent on the people who worked for you, otherwise you weren't in the job for very long, so you had to make sure people were motivated and capable to do what was necessary, which generally means attending to their individual and group needs and giving them respect. Personally I've never had a problem with an employee voicing his views or opinions, even one's who didn't support Stoke! Most of them actually supported, Newcastle, Sunderland, Boro, or Swansea, with a sprinkling of all the other clubs, including glory seekers. Seriously though if you can't earn the respect and trust of the employees as a manager, you and the business you manage are not going to achieve its potential success. I'm proud to say that whenever I moved on from a job I was always given a very generous and affectionate send off. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, my mother was born in Basford and before I was elevated to the management class, I did work on the shop floor in bakeries, a pot bank, for security firms, and on delivery vans among other jobs, before qualifying for an engineering job, which led to me becoming "a boss" and working my way up the corporate ladder. The only advantage I was given was by attending Ellison Street Junior school, I passed my 11+, which most kids did at that school in the 50s, and got a place at Wolstanton Grammar, which meant I was probably lucky to have an advantage over secondary modern kids. I regularly come on here and defend Mark Hughes and his predecessor, because I empathise with their problems, although I have never managed a football team. I have been involved in running sporting ventures in a voluntary capacity, and even had a go at refereeing once, which is not to be recommended! I think MH is an excellent manager and we are very lucky to have him. I also think the players think a lot of him as well, although he has the invidious task of disappointing most of them at least some of the time. Very nice post, Mr. Coke. That's been my experience as well. Treat people fairly and they'll go to the wall for you. Unfortunately, there are bosses around that like to kiss up and kick down - if there's one piece of advice I'd give to young people just starting out in a career is try to make sure your first boss is someone you can learn from and isn't afraid to put you straight when you mess up. |
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Post by alster on Nov 30, 2016 8:41:40 GMT
You're obviously a fan of the management class. I'm not in my experience they've been people who learn to parrot what the higher ups want to hear an more often than not weren't even any good at the job they got promoted from. They normally have a problem with people who say it how they see it and their idea of flexibility is you doing what they want when they want you to do it. Thats public sector management anyhow, I had very few good managers, mainly the sort you say no to just because they're asking. That seems to be consistent with your earlier comment about being a "difficult" employee! I didn't say I was difficult I said people find me difficult especially those that had to manage me because I was well informed and knew what I had to do and got on with it but anything that I didn't have to do I usually wanted something in exchange. One manager actually accused me of blackmailing her. She wanted me to do hours outside of my rota and I wanted a particular day off, she said there were other people in front of me to get the day off. I told her to ask them to do the additional hours then. To me thats flexibility and negotiation but its not how managers in my former organisation were used to managing as they had grown used to relying on being able to order people to do stuff. Most of the stuff they ordered people to do they didn't actually have the authority to give an order but most people never challenged them. Another time I was denied a weeks leave, I went in and investigated the paperwork only to find the Husband of a senior manager had been given it when I should have got it. They offered me absolutely any other time off to swallow it, naturally I refused and insisted on having the week I'd asked for. They didn't like managing me because I knew my job and I knew the extent of their authority and how to challenge their corruption. I caught them out time and time again lying about things like changing rotas and denying it only to be caught bang to rights because of the computer history of changes made which most employees and many managers didn't understand that anyone could interrogate the system. I had to make freedom of information requests and appeals to the information commissioner to expose their corruption. I think that management has become much more difficult in this modern electronic era, most things are open to scrutiny whether you're a manager or not, favoritism is much more difficult to conceal and deny. |
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Post by biglad180 on Nov 30, 2016 11:16:49 GMT
lots of people seem to knock walters but if bony put as much effort in has him he might make a decent striker
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Post by chrisparker on Nov 30, 2016 11:27:51 GMT
The manager clearly trusts the ability of his players. That much was evident in his pre-match SKY interview. He isn't one for focusing on injuries or anything of the sort. He trusts in his players ability and knows that whatever side he fields, if they play to their ability, will be a match for anyone in this league. I like that confidence. It's a pity some of our supporters don't have the same faith in the group of players and the manager himself. So you have faith in Walters now then do you? Doesn't matter what you & I think. I think the past 3 seasons proves that that there are few players in the squad that Mark Hughes trusts more than Walters. If Mark thinks Walters is good enough to still be playing for Stoke, then so be it. I trust the manager's judgement more than any nut job on here who slaughters SJW every week. |
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Post by alster on Nov 30, 2016 14:41:05 GMT
So you have faith in Walters now then do you? Doesn't matter what you & I think. I think the past 3 seasons proves that that there are few players in the squad that Mark Hughes trusts more than Walters. If Mark thinks Walters is good enough to still be playing for Stoke, then so be it. I trust the manager's judgement more than any nut job on here who slaughters SJW every week. Are you saying you're unable to develop your own opinions and just go along with whatever a manager does because he's a football manager? |
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