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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2016 13:28:26 GMT
Crouch had a "flat track bully" game against very poor opposition and now he is the answer in a counter-attacking away game against vastly superior opposition? Did our game there last season not show the best way for the squad we have to set up for such a game? We need pace, movement, skill to hit them on the break, not hoofing the ball up to an isolated and relatively slow and immobile bean pole striker. Crouch has shown once again, as if anyone was in doubt, what a great pro and loyal servant to the club he is, and he is surely worth keeping this season as a Plan B or C off the bench (more so than Joselu it seems), but if we are going to suddenly start building our attack around him, then Hughes will have to rip up the game plan he has being trying to construct these past three years in one fell swoop. I just can't see it. Completely agree, if you want to play crouch as your main striker you need to play with two quick old-fashioned wingers, who can float the ball up to the back post. Our wingers are inverted and prefer to play it in the box low, or even (frustratingly) not at all. The way i see Hughes' plan is almost with a striker who isn't as important as the wingers, i think he sees most of our goals coming from the reverse passes from one of shaq/boj/arnie to the other, á la City last year, with the striker there to harry the opposition or to either be a last resort to cross to if we have the ball high up, or play as a deeper almost second no 10, and play through to the inside wingers. Exactly why i think he bought joselu, never going to score 20 a season but holds up well and can be okay in the air. Diouf the same, but harries defenders. what we need is to be quicker on the counter.
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Post by sharonbeech21 on Aug 24, 2016 14:31:49 GMT
Crouchie must start against Everton. If he doesnt get in after scoring a 3 goals last night what does he have to do. I would pick crouchie over diouf every time
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Post by crouchie on Aug 24, 2016 16:00:06 GMT
until we get this new super duper cf the only striker i have any confidence in is crouch get the crosses in get somebody like allen playing close to him for the knockdowns and bobs your uncle
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 24, 2016 16:41:37 GMT
Jezza. we played virtually the same super duper 'first team' at home against Everton 40 days later, had 66% possession, created zero chances and could have conceded 6 in 45 minutes (even with Butland in goal).
Sadly the latter performance has become more of the norm than the Christmas game.
If what we're doing now even vaguely looked like working I could understand the reticence for some change.
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Post by stokey127 on Aug 24, 2016 16:47:46 GMT
Crouchie must start against Everton. If he doesnt get in after scoring a 3 goals last night what does he have to do. I would pick crouchie over diouf every time god yes he is the best front man we have
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 24, 2016 16:50:44 GMT
Jezza. we played virtually the same super duper 'first team' at home against Everton 40 days later, had 66% possession, created zero chances and could have conceded 6 in 45 minutes (even with Butland in goal). Sadly the latter performance has become more of the norm than the Christmas game. If what we're doing now even vaguely looked like working I could understand the reticence for some change. I have no problem with change, as I would love to bring in a few new faces to change things up. However, reverting to thumping the ball up to an isolated Crouch in a Premier League away game, which has also failed miserably on numerous occasions, on the back of a cup game against woefully outclassed opposition, smacks too much of change for change's sake to me. If playing Peter Crouch up front has suddenly vaulted to our Plan A we are in more trouble with catastrophically muddled thinking than I thought.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 24, 2016 16:58:04 GMT
Jezza. we played virtually the same super duper 'first team' at home against Everton 40 days later, had 66% possession, created zero chances and could have conceded 6 in 45 minutes (even with Butland in goal). Sadly the latter performance has become more of the norm than the Christmas game. If what we're doing now even vaguely looked like working I could understand the reticence for some change. I have no problem with change, as I would love to bring in a few new faces to change things up. However, reverting to thumping the ball up to an isolated Crouch in a Premier League away game, which has also failed miserably on numerous occasions, on the back of a cup game against woefully outclassed opposition, smacks too much of change for change's sake to me. If playing Peter Crouch up front has suddenly vaulted to our Plan A we are in more trouble with catastrophically muddled thinking than I thought. I don’t think it would signify it becoming Plan A, Jezza, more a little try of a plan B or C before we know what the real Plan A is at roughly this time next week. I’m not absolutely desperate to see it but nor am I desperate to see another one of the sterile attacking and clumsy defensive performances that have become the norm these past few months.
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Post by MilanStokie on Aug 24, 2016 17:03:33 GMT
Jezza. we played virtually the same super duper 'first team' at home against Everton 40 days later, had 66% possession, created zero chances and could have conceded 6 in 45 minutes (even with Butland in goal). Sadly the latter performance has become more of the norm than the Christmas game. If what we're doing now even vaguely looked like working I could understand the reticence for some change. I have no problem with change, as I would love to bring in a few new faces to change things up. However, reverting to thumping the ball up to an isolated Crouch in a Premier League away game, which has also failed miserably on numerous occasions, on the back of a cup game against woefully outclassed opposition, smacks too much of change for change's sake to me. If playing Peter Crouch up front has suddenly vaulted to our Plan A we are in more trouble with catastrophically muddled thinking than I thought. No one is really advocating this as a long term solution though are they? Let's face it, the current batch of attackers are just not doing it at the moment and haven't been for some time. Going back to my original argument, which you don't really respond to, what kind of message does it deliver to squad and fringe players who, when given their chance, take it in abundance. But to be told the next game they are benched again? Where is the motivation for anyone to perform? They might as well not bother and just hope someone gets injured instead. I am no massive Peter Crouch fan by any means, if Jon Walters, Joselu or Mame Diouf had performed at that level in the same fixture, I would be saying exactly the same thing. That is the kind of thing you do in competitive team sports afterall...
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 24, 2016 17:05:21 GMT
I have no problem with change, as I would love to bring in a few new faces to change things up. However, reverting to thumping the ball up to an isolated Crouch in a Premier League away game, which has also failed miserably on numerous occasions, on the back of a cup game against woefully outclassed opposition, smacks too much of change for change's sake to me. If playing Peter Crouch up front has suddenly vaulted to our Plan A we are in more trouble with catastrophically muddled thinking than I thought. I don’t think it would signify it becoming Plan A, Jezza, more a little try of a plan B or C before we know what the real Plan A is at roughly this time next week. I’m not absolutely desperate to see it but nor am I desperate to see another one of the sterile attacking and clumsy defensive performances that have become the norm these past few months. Fair enough - we all want the same thing: Stoke to play good football and win games. I am just not convinced he is the answer, at his age and with our current squad and preferred formation, to start at Everton this weekend. BTW I do think he still has more to offer this season as an alternative off the bench and I love the bloke to bits.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 24, 2016 17:11:45 GMT
I have no problem with change, as I would love to bring in a few new faces to change things up. However, reverting to thumping the ball up to an isolated Crouch in a Premier League away game, which has also failed miserably on numerous occasions, on the back of a cup game against woefully outclassed opposition, smacks too much of change for change's sake to me. If playing Peter Crouch up front has suddenly vaulted to our Plan A we are in more trouble with catastrophically muddled thinking than I thought. No one is really advocating this as a long term solution though are they? Let's face it, the current batch of attackers are just not doing it at the moment and haven't been for some time. Going back to my original argument, which you don't really respond to, what kind of message does it deliver to squad and fringe players who, when given their chance, take it in abundance. But to be told the next game they are benched again? Where is the motivation for anyone to perform? They might as well not bother and just hope someone gets injured instead. I am no massive Peter Crouch fan by any means, if Jon Walters, Joselu or Mame Diouf had performed at that level in the same fixture, I would be saying exactly the same thing. That is the kind of thing you do in competitive team sports afterall... Their motivation to perform should be that they get paid bloody well to do so!!! And, yes, good performances should be noticed and rewarded, but it must be a case of horses for courses. Crouch was the right man to bully a woefully below par defence last night. Will he get much change out of Ashley Williams this weekend? Not for me. You should do what the opposition least want you to do - a big physical defender would love us to hump balls up to Crouch all day, but would less like to deal with small, fast, tricky players buzzing around him. It is as if some of the sterile attacking performances we have been cursed with did not involve Crouch at all - he has been used to not much effect on plenty of occasions.
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Post by stokemark on Aug 24, 2016 18:35:44 GMT
Crouchie must start against Everton. If he doesnt get in after scoring a 3 goals last night what does he have to do. I would pick crouchie over diouf every time Did you vote for Brexit because you want to 'take back control' by any chance ?
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Post by sharonbeech21 on Aug 24, 2016 18:37:51 GMT
Yes i did
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 24, 2016 18:39:33 GMT
*woosh*
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Post by rosco on Aug 24, 2016 21:24:09 GMT
Start him and get crosses in. Defenders whether they are Everton or Stevenage cannot deal with him. He's never let us down The only sane argument for starting him against Everton is based on the new 'you can't breathe on anyone in the box' rule. He's been a great Servant and has an insatiable attitude for the game but to contemplate starting him against Everton is to basically admit by Hughes that he has no gameplan whatsoever. Again please look at Crouchies recent goal scoring record in the Premier League for evidence. Of course he could well be effective in a 442 but that would be a step even more away from everything LMH beleaguered believes in. I didn't mention anything about the 'new rules' ?
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Post by Stoke711 on Aug 24, 2016 21:36:34 GMT
I was thinking about this earlier. mainly the so called new regs if those two challenges are both pens then fuk me crouch must have 5 pens each game?? now hes banged two in I wouldn't be surprised We'll play counter attacking football at Everton, having Crouch up front will not help us to play this way and imo will cause us more harm than good. We'll just end up lumping it up to him with no support. Crouchy at home I can live with when we're going to control possession and build up slower.
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Post by boothenesque on Aug 24, 2016 22:29:53 GMT
Crouch+Bojan up front, have we tried it? Don't think we have tried that in a game yet. If we let Bojan focus on being in the box rather than playing deep, feeding off Crouchie then... Still need to get balls in the box and be a bit more direct though.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 24, 2016 22:35:11 GMT
Crouch+Bojan up front, have we tried it? Don't think we have tried that in a game yet. If we let Bojan focus on being in the box rather than playing deep, feeding off Crouchie then... Still need to get balls in the box and be a bit more direct though. Crouch & Bojan against Arsenal a couple of seasons ago when we should have gone 4-0 up.....Crouch scored after 19 seconds or something like that!!! Crouch to start is a definate YES from me!!!
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Post by boothenesque on Aug 24, 2016 22:39:51 GMT
oh yeah, that's right, it's a bit old fashioned, big guy plus little guy, but they're good players and at times there might be better options but perhaps things are getting a bit over complicated and if Bojan could bang in a few goals it would do wonders for his confidence to get that swagger back. Worth the try if not because it's not clicking at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2016 22:52:53 GMT
Absolutely. Can only play whats in front of you and why would you drop a forward that has scored a hat trick? He's a big lad and he has always given us a focal point which always makes a Hughes side two dimensional. Ideally, we'd get a younger version in the next 9 days. To suit the profile, a younger version of Crouchie will need to "head and shoulders" above everyone else, literally. Not too many 6'7" top class strikers around these days to choose from so I reckon we'll have to give that one a miss, unfortunately.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 6:56:02 GMT
It'll be a nice test. If we're struggling to cross to him we know PL sides make it harder than Stevenage to do so, and forces a rethink.
If Stoke are sending high crosses in everywhere on Saturday then we know they could've in the first two games for Diouf and didn't. Which would piss me off a tad.
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Post by Godo on Aug 25, 2016 16:45:57 GMT
Yes because a single performance by a fresh Crouch against Stevenage has removed all of those substandard performances against top class opposition over the last 2 seasons completely from my mind!!!
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Post by blackpoolred on Aug 25, 2016 17:08:04 GMT
If you can't get a start after a Hat-trick then when can you. Being picked should go off merit and form. I dont care that he scored them against Stevenage, no buggar else in our team is capable of scoring a Hat-trick.
What have we got to lose, do we have any other strikers banging them in on a consistent basis, He is good at holding the ball up and bringing others into the game at the right end of the pitch - and would be a benefit at set pieces, both for and against and boy do we need help with those at both ends of the pitch
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 21:49:47 GMT
For fuck sake.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 21:50:54 GMT
Also seemingly not for sale:
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 25, 2016 22:00:46 GMT
Back to the future 3, I love big Pete but is this the way Hughes is taking us ![(slaphead)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/x7GhxArXJzjvmIlugu2X.gif) we are fast becoming a laughing stock.
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coggy
Youth Player
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Posts: 340
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Post by coggy on Aug 25, 2016 22:19:44 GMT
At least with the new grappling laws he should get us about 8 penalties ! 😂
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 25, 2016 22:22:52 GMT
Also seemingly not for sale:
He's just looking for a player exchange with Berahino ...
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Post by Rick Grimes on Aug 26, 2016 8:12:15 GMT
I think we should stick with Diouf personally because it's not like he's been missing chances deserves to be dropped, he just hasn't had any in the two games we've played so far. Can't fault his effort either he puts in a great shift.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 26, 2016 8:16:24 GMT
Talk of a new contract is daft but what this says more than anything is that Joselu is dead to Hughes.
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Post by foster on Aug 26, 2016 8:19:35 GMT
I think we should stick with Diouf personally because it's not like he's been missing chances deserves to be dropped, he just hasn't had any in the two games we've played so far. Can't fault his effort either he puts in a great shift. He missed a sitter vs Man City. Not even on target.
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