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Post by chiefdelilah on May 3, 2016 5:40:02 GMT
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Post by oslostokie1 on May 3, 2016 7:34:49 GMT
Excellent summary as usual. Two points that I particularly agree with:
1) None of our ShawX centre half partners are quite up to it. They have games where you are lulled into a false sense of security and believe they are, or could become, but then they let themselves down, even if just for a split second. Each of Cameron(otherwise excellent on Saturday), Wollscheid (mostly good this season), Muniesa (not up to it period) and Wilson have had enough chances to make the position their own but have failed ultimately to capitalise. A ShawX partner has to be the number one priority over the summer, with Wollsheid and Cameron as back-up. I don't see the other two ever making it as reliable centre backs in the Prem
2) It is interesting that our home points tally was greater under the Pulis era than under Hughes, whilst the converse is true for our away performances. Mixing up the approach to home games as we did on Saturday, instead of always trying to unpick defensive teams like a sub-standard Arsenal, should be the way forward
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 3, 2016 8:05:39 GMT
“The flip side to this as a possible solution is that it’s not a long term one, given its reliance on players who don’t really have a long-term future here and can’t produce consistently.”
A pretty chilling sentence Rob. We’ve stumbled on a home plan B and it most likely won’t be here in the Summer.
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Post by jaybee on May 3, 2016 8:12:29 GMT
Great stuff as usual, especially this ... <<but as anyone who’s eaten a Ferrero Rocher knows, sophisticated can be overrated>> BUT <<perplexing Billy Jones>> Erm .... he didn't play!!
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Post by cousindupree on May 3, 2016 8:39:05 GMT
Good write up chief, got the tone jus right it was an improvement but nowt to get excited about. The Jerome equation should really be upgraded to the 'Diouf Equation' for modernity, although its clear you rate Mame. A bit tough on Cameron who had a splendid game. It really was the softest of penalties, you have to get close to Defoe otherwise he will punish you. Geoff said in the press he didn't touch him, but a slight tap on the shoulder and Defoe crumples in a heap, shite decision from an incompetent ref. As for his hand ball, Geoff does like his basketball
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 3, 2016 8:42:48 GMT
Great stuff as usual, especially this ... <<but as anyone who’s eaten a Ferrero Rocher knows, sophisticated can be overrated>> BUT <<perplexing Billy Jones>> Erm .... he didn't play!! That's how perplexed he was, he confused him into making me think he was playing. Bah, I'd have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for that Yedlin kid...
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Post by stokerstayinup on May 3, 2016 9:31:44 GMT
“The flip side to this as a possible solution is that it’s not a long term one, given its reliance on players who don’t really have a long-term future here and can’t produce consistently.” A pretty chilling sentence Rob. We’ve stumbled on a home plan B and it most likely won’t be here in the Summer. Hughes wants Charlie and Crouch to stay,doesn't he?
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 3, 2016 9:34:16 GMT
“The flip side to this as a possible solution is that it’s not a long term one, given its reliance on players who don’t really have a long-term future here and can’t produce consistently.” A pretty chilling sentence Rob. We’ve stumbled on a home plan B and it most likely won’t be here in the Summer. Hughes wants Charlie and Crouch to stay,doesn't he? He says so, but do they want to stay?
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 3, 2016 9:38:43 GMT
“The flip side to this as a possible solution is that it’s not a long term one, given its reliance on players who don’t really have a long-term future here and can’t produce consistently.” A pretty chilling sentence Rob. We’ve stumbled on a home plan B and it most likely won’t be here in the Summer. Hughes wants Charlie and Crouch to stay,doesn't he? Neither of them are going to stick around playing bit parts and fire fighting roles I don't reckon.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 9:45:32 GMT
Hughes wants Charlie and Crouch to stay,doesn't he? Neither of them are going to stick around playing bit parts and fire fighting roles I don't reckon. A real shame as Charlie can offer so much, as he's shown and will probably show over the next two matches.
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Post by stokerstayinup on May 3, 2016 9:48:54 GMT
It's an interesting one because neither seem the type to just sit on their arse picking up their pay packet if they're not going to play a bigger role next season.I suppose it depends on whether Hughes went back to basics on Saturday or he sees those tactics as being beneficial for home games next season.If he sees it as more of a plan A rather than a plan B,I suspect both players won't take much convincing to stay.They could always move on in January.
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Post by jaybee on May 3, 2016 9:49:32 GMT
Great stuff as usual, especially this ... <<but as anyone who’s eaten a Ferrero Rocher knows, sophisticated can be overrated>> BUT <<perplexing Billy Jones>> Erm .... he didn't play!! That's how perplexed he was, he confused him into making me think he was playing. Bah, I'd have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for that Yedlin kid... Sorry, DD1 used to work with Billy's Mrs, so she asked me 'was Billy playing', otherwise I may not have noticed! "gotten away"? Come on, this is not america, next you will be saying we played 'good soccer'!!
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Post by lastoftheldk on May 3, 2016 11:14:39 GMT
When is this crap about Shawcross going to stop. Using your logic we need two center halfs
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 3, 2016 11:19:29 GMT
When is this crap about Shawcross going to stop. Using your logic we need two center halfs If he can't stay fit then we do, yeah.
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Post by Godo on May 3, 2016 11:27:49 GMT
If Crouch and Adam are the answer to us securing a home draw against a regular bottom 4 side I wonder what the original question was..............?
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 3, 2016 11:37:27 GMT
If Crouch and Adam are the answer to us securing a home draw against a regular bottom 4 side I wonder what the original question was..............? More to us creating chances at home, which we too often haven't.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on May 3, 2016 11:41:47 GMT
I'm not sure the issue is so much that the "other" CB needs to be better to match Shawcross, more so we need a settled back 4. This was proven last year when Muniesa played bloody well with Shawcross as a settled back four and also this year when there was an extended period with Shawcross and Wolly (Oct - Jan??). I think once we have sorted this horrendous injury issue and get a back four that play week in and week out.... we will improve no end.
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Post by chuffedstokie on May 3, 2016 11:52:57 GMT
I'm not sure the issue is so much that the "other" CB needs to be better to match Shawcross, more so we need a settled back 4. This was proven last year when Muniesa played bloody well with Shawcross as a settled back four and also this year when there was an extended period with Shawcross and Wolly (Oct - Jan??). I think once we have sorted this horrendous injury issue and get a back four that play week in and week out.... we will improve no end. Just saw your points re the back four. I haven't done the homework but how many times this season have we put out the same 4, 5 if you include Jack. Only a quick input I've got to get back to work.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 3, 2016 12:03:53 GMT
I'm not sure the issue is so much that the "other" CB needs to be better to match Shawcross, more so we need a settled back 4. This was proven last year when Muniesa played bloody well with Shawcross as a settled back four and also this year when there was an extended period with Shawcross and Wolly (Oct - Jan??). I think once we have sorted this horrendous injury issue and get a back four that play week in and week out.... we will improve no end. Just saw your points re the back four. I haven't done the homework but how many times this season have we put out the same 4, 5 if you include Jack. Only a quick input I've got to get back to work. The longest we've managed is 13 consecutive weeks. Which is a lot more than we managed last season, when we had a better defence. We've had Shawcross available a lot less this season though.
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Post by superheroantonius on May 3, 2016 12:48:31 GMT
Fair play to Mark Hughes for more or less admitting that the performance at Man City was worse than bad, and 'crossed the line ', and for doing something about it.
But if going back to basics means having a centre forward who wants to get in the box and get on the end of things ... then how on earth have we managed to stray so far away from the basics in the first place ? Why would we want a centre forward who doesn't do this ? what's the point?
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Post by superheroantonius on May 3, 2016 13:07:55 GMT
If Crouch and Adam are the answer to us securing a home draw against a regular bottom 4 side I wonder what the original question was..............? For me the question is how much do you want to win and what are you prepared to do to make it happen ? I guess crouchy and charlie are happy to accept the physical side of premier league football and cheat with the best of em .
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Post by chuffedstokie on May 3, 2016 14:17:01 GMT
Just saw your points re the back four. I haven't done the homework but how many times this season have we put out the same 4, 5 if you include Jack. Only a quick input I've got to get back to work. The longest we've managed is 13 consecutive weeks. Which is a lot more than we managed last season, when we had a better defence. We've had Shawcross available a lot less this season though. Cheers. Fair to say that Ryan carries a lot of influence when he's on form. First half last week, even from my seat, you could hear him and the others working together verbally and signalling organising things. OK Sunderland only really threatened a couple of times but they looked solid. If that sort of stability could be relied on then the rare occasional change could be absorbed. The unfortunate wholesale carnage we've endured really makes it messy. That isn't an attempt at drawing conclusions but finding similarities with my own experiences of being part of a defence that stayed together for 3 consecutive seasons in a hockey team which won promotion in those same seasons. We didn't score the goals we just stopped them going in.
Here's hoping we hit the ground running in August.
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Post by WhyDelilah on May 3, 2016 14:29:43 GMT
I missed Saturdays match as I was (attempting) to climb a mountain.
I'm missing the last game of the season too for the same reason. I can't say I'm particularly arsed about missing either of them either, and that about sums up the final third of our campaign.
It feels like the season ended months ago and we're just going through the motions now. It's been an ok season. We've been hampered by injuries but that can only be used so far as an excuse.
We should've recruited a winger to give us better cover. We still aren't scoring enough goals. We are shit against teams that sit deep against us at home.
Having said all that, there is a nucleus of a good squad. Work needed over the summer.
6 out of 10.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 14:51:41 GMT
My summary:
Cant close the game out against a team sitting in the relegation zone with all of our "top" players fit bar Butland. Rubbish.
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Post by Olgrligm on May 3, 2016 17:39:37 GMT
Very good write up. I particularly liked the bit about the defence; imagine if some posters had been saying that for the last two and a half years
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 17:42:18 GMT
Rob, will you be doing a season critique at any time?
I'm particularly interested in people's thoughts on a 1 goal a game away and 1.1 goal a game at home season average, and how we think that has impacted everything including the pressure on our depleted defence to get results!?
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 3, 2016 17:48:20 GMT
Rob, will you be doing a season critique at any time? I'm particularly interested in people's thoughts on a 1 goal a game away and 1.1 goal a game at home season average, and how we think that has impacted everything including the pressure on our depleted defence to get results!? I will be Looky, yeah. After the last game I'll be doing a season review. I think they've impacted each other - we don't create enough (which is why I still think the '20 goal a season striker' thing is possibly a red herring) because our build-up play is so ponderous, especially at home. But when we do take the lead we can't seem to hold onto it anymore either - certainly over the past couple of months, but the signs were there before that when we couldn't even keep a clean sheet against Villa.
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Post by mrcoke on May 3, 2016 18:49:07 GMT
As usual an excellent essay covering all the bases.
Once again a match we should have won but let slip through poor finishing. MH and his coaches have got to find an answer to the poor shooting and hopeless dead ball play.
I think the Shaqiri problem is simply a matter of finding his form and confidence in the Prem. As with Imbula I get the feeling they are overawed with the Prem and start playing within themselves and playing safe to avoid mistakes and it doesn't work. They simply make matters worse.
My final observation is our lack of luck. We have suffered a lot of injuries this season and don't get the breaks in matches. I know good teams make their luck but you can't help feeling that Leicester have had more than their fair share this season and we have missed out.
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on May 3, 2016 19:28:29 GMT
Quick stat for you: nearly a third of the penalties Stoke have conceded in all competitions over the last two seasons have been conceded by Geoff Cameron. No Stoke player has conceded more.
Awful stat, even worse that he doesnt play every match. Just shows stupidity.
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Post by no1972 on May 3, 2016 19:33:25 GMT
Quick stat for you: nearly a third of the penalties Stoke have conceded in all competitions over the last two seasons have been conceded by Geoff Cameron. No Stoke player has conceded more. Awful stat, even worse that he doesnt play every match. Just shows stupidity. Maybe other don't tackle and allow the oppersition to score,stat can be turned around to suit,the only stat that matters in a football match is score more than the oppersition and you win fact not a stat.
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