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Post by bayernoatcake on May 1, 2016 9:19:20 GMT
To be better than the last, constant improvement, investment in the right areas not selling our best players and replacing them with inferior quality, pretty much what all managers should be doing. But you can accept that things aren't going to be perfect 100% of the time, right? I'd say this has been my second least enjoyable season since we've come up. It's just been poor.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 1, 2016 9:31:51 GMT
But you can accept that things aren't going to be perfect 100% of the time, right? I'd say this has been my second least enjoyable season since we've come up. It's just been poor. I'd put it ahead of the last two Pulis seasons and maybe the second one as well. It's been disappointing, no question. I expected a bit of a drop-off when Nzonzi went though.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 1, 2016 9:32:50 GMT
But you can accept that things aren't going to be perfect 100% of the time, right? Correct that is perfection which is impossible, no body expects perfection just improvement, would you agree that we have regressed this season ? I would. I think that's partly down to the management, partly down to circumstances beyond our control. But if we meet your criteria next season, you'll be on here fulsome in your praise, yes?
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yellowfang
Lads'n'Dads
I only deal in truth
Posts: 50
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Post by yellowfang on May 1, 2016 9:34:21 GMT
Wow what a difference. Was certainly no perfect performance, but we looked like an completely different team than in past weeks. Why? Because Hughes looked at the opposition, looked at how we've been playing, and picked a team and a system to win today's match. Unfortunately we couldn't get all 3 points, but I thought there were a hell of a lot of positives to take from the game. One of the biggest is the confirmation that when he needs to, Hughes knows how to get results. When we dropped into the bottom 3 in his first season, he brought in Charlie and Crouch and went direct. The start of the season, when we couldn't buy a win, he brought back Charlie and Whelan in the cage. And now after 3 thumpings, he brings back Charlie and the cage and goes direct to Crouchy. And it worked! I think for me, what it makes me think, is what if Hughes had been less passive this season, and picked the team and system to get results, not just to look pretty. Perhaps had he made the correct changes, especially over Christmas, we'd have got to a cup final and Europe may have been a very real possibility. However, it is a season of what ifs, but today does offer some hope that Hughes may well be learning from his mistakes I just wish he wouldn't wait til we are in dire straights to change the way we play. cut the BS ............HUGHES OUT!
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 1, 2016 9:39:02 GMT
I'd say this has been my second least enjoyable season since we've come up. It's just been poor. I'd put it ahead of the last two Pulis seasons and maybe the second one as well. It's been disappointing, no question. I expected a bit of a drop-off when Nzonzi went though. With the second one there was no expectation. The second to last TP season was bad but maybe I just expect more from Hughes? I don't know, I just haven't enjoyed it. Me too especially with how we went about replacing him. Which we didn't. And is Imbula actually the man? It's going to be interesting where he will play long term.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 1, 2016 9:47:34 GMT
I'd put it ahead of the last two Pulis seasons and maybe the second one as well. It's been disappointing, no question. I expected a bit of a drop-off when Nzonzi went though. With the second one there was no expectation. The second to last TP season was bad but maybe I just expect more from Hughes? I don't know, I just haven't enjoyed it. Me too especially with how we went about replacing him. Which we didn't. And is Imbula actually the man? It's going to be interesting where he will play long term. That's the big question with Imbula. It's also a slight concern about Hughes - a theme with all of his top targets since he came here is that once he's got them he doesn't seem entirely sure how to use them. Plenty of time for Imbula obv but it is a worry.
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Post by sufolkstokie on May 1, 2016 9:51:52 GMT
With the second one there was no expectation. The second to last TP season was bad but maybe I just expect more from Hughes? I don't know, I just haven't enjoyed it. Me too especially with how we went about replacing him. Which we didn't. And is Imbula actually the man? It's going to be interesting where he will play long term. That's the big question with Imbula. It's also a slight concern about Hughes - a theme with all of his top targets since he came here is that once he's got them he doesn't seem entirely sure how to use them. Plenty of time for Imbula obv but it is a worry. And is Imbula keeping Bojan out - can they play together? (Bojan is not a striker and the false 9 works once in a blue moon)
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 1, 2016 9:51:57 GMT
With the second one there was no expectation. The second to last TP season was bad but maybe I just expect more from Hughes? I don't know, I just haven't enjoyed it. Me too especially with how we went about replacing him. Which we didn't. And is Imbula actually the man? It's going to be interesting where he will play long term. That's the big question with Imbula. It's also a slight concern about Hughes - a theme with all of his top targets since he came here is that once he's got them he doesn't seem entirely sure how to use them. Plenty of time for Imbula obv but it is a worry. Yup definitely!
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 1, 2016 10:03:58 GMT
That's the big question with Imbula. It's also a slight concern about Hughes - a theme with all of his top targets since he came here is that once he's got them he doesn't seem entirely sure how to use them. Plenty of time for Imbula obv but it is a worry. And is Imbula keeping Bojan out - can they play together? (Bojan is not a striker and the false 9 works once in a blue moon) Yeah, we seem to be collecting players for other positions and it turns out their best role is in Bojan's position. Bojan was also very unlucky to be dropped.
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Post by riponstokie on May 1, 2016 10:45:52 GMT
Then why do you seem to actively criticise him now? I'm not doubting you used to back him, but just hold your opinion and acknowledge his flaws, as I do with him and Hughes. I have a lot of respect for TP and think tactically Hughes is a way behind him, but I respect both and although Hughes has got a way to go to get close to TP I'm desperate for him to take us to the next level, as it is very realistic. Just a shame we didn't make a step this season, as it has been a real opportunity. Hughes is way behind TP tactically? I'm sorry but I nearly choked laughing when I read that. Can you explain why that is ? If,as I suspect, you're going to say that we were more solid and harder to beat under Pulis then how come in his 3 seasons Hughes has accumulated more points than the other fella managed? Also if you take away the recent aberration the goals conceded column isn't much different between the two despite Hughes not playing a "back 8",allowing full backs over the half way line and attempting to win away games. If trying to protect a 0-0 and hope something drops from a set piece is your cup of tea then that's your perogative. Not for me though and ill take the odd hammering here and there for not having to go back there. Way behind TP tactically. .that made me laugh I will explain why. Pulis took a distinctively average championship team into the prem. Then kept up that team and established them as a good premier league side. He tactically outmanoeuvred fellow managers (such as Moyes, Hughes even bloody Mowbray) consistently. Rather than putting the team out and expecting them to win the game because they are better than the opposition, he had to tactically tweak the way we play in order to get results. This is where Hughes false down. Tactically he is naive, gets done by other managers too often, and the team doesn't seem to have any instruction or idea on the plan of specific games. The only time he does show some nous is when we are in the shit. Look at yesterday, he knew they would press, so the plan was to hit crouch and Arnie and shaq come in from the flanks for knock downs. Or at Bournemouth when we sacrificed possession to win the game. Hughes shows occasionally some thought, but as a manager he is very passive and naive which leads to him being done too often.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 1, 2016 10:50:13 GMT
Hughes is way behind TP tactically? I'm sorry but I nearly choked laughing when I read that. Can you explain why that is ? If,as I suspect, you're going to say that we were more solid and harder to beat under Pulis then how come in his 3 seasons Hughes has accumulated more points than the other fella managed? Also if you take away the recent aberration the goals conceded column isn't much different between the two despite Hughes not playing a "back 8",allowing full backs over the half way line and attempting to win away games. If trying to protect a 0-0 and hope something drops from a set piece is your cup of tea then that's your perogative. Not for me though and ill take the odd hammering here and there for not having to go back there. Way behind TP tactically. .that made me laugh I will explain why. Pulis took a distinctively average championship team into the prem. Then kept up that team and established them as a good premier league side. He tactically outmanoeuvred fellow managers (such as Moyes, Hughes even bloody Mowbray) consistently. Rather than putting the team out and expecting them to win the game because they are better than the opposition, he had to tactically tweak the way we play in order to get results. This is where Hughes false down. Tactically he is naive, gets done by other managers too often, and the team doesn't seem to have any instruction or idea on the plan of specific games. The only time he does show some nous is when we are in the shit. Look at yesterday, he knew they would press, so the plan was to hit crouch and Arnie and shaq come in from the flanks for knock downs. Or at Bournemouth when we sacrificed possession to win the game. Hughes shows occasionally some thought, but as a manager he is very passive and naive which leads to him being done too often. TP's 'tactical nous' didn't extend to away games did it? And our best performances under him were when we had a settled side with square pegs kept to a minimum and he gave them some freedom.
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Post by riponstokie on May 1, 2016 10:53:48 GMT
I will explain why. Pulis took a distinctively average championship team into the prem. Then kept up that team and established them as a good premier league side. He tactically outmanoeuvred fellow managers (such as Moyes, Hughes even bloody Mowbray) consistently. Rather than putting the team out and expecting them to win the game because they are better than the opposition, he had to tactically tweak the way we play in order to get results. This is where Hughes false down. Tactically he is naive, gets done by other managers too often, and the team doesn't seem to have any instruction or idea on the plan of specific games. The only time he does show some nous is when we are in the shit. Look at yesterday, he knew they would press, so the plan was to hit crouch and Arnie and shaq come in from the flanks for knock downs. Or at Bournemouth when we sacrificed possession to win the game. Hughes shows occasionally some thought, but as a manager he is very passive and naive which leads to him being done too often. TP's 'tactical nous' didn't extend to away games did it? And our best performances under him were when we had a settled side with square pegs kept to a minimum and he gave them some freedom. TP's best side was when we had a back 6 and a front 4...we had the cage where the 2 sitting players protected the defence, and the two wingers when they were both on song...that team had the perfect balance of Grit (Huthy, Ryan, Whelan etc.) and flair (Ethers, Pennant, Ric)
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 1, 2016 10:58:00 GMT
TP's 'tactical nous' didn't extend to away games did it? And our best performances under him were when we had a settled side with square pegs kept to a minimum and he gave them some freedom. TP's best side was when we had a back 6 and a front 4...we had the cage where the 2 sitting players protected the defence, and the two wingers when they were both on song...that team had the perfect balance of Grit (Huthy, Ryan, Whelan etc.) and flair (Ethers, Pennant, Ric) Yep, and when he kept that side and let it play a bit. The perception is that we were always plucky underdogs under TP having to duck and dive to keep up with everyone else. He loved that because it helped manage expectations. Where it started to go wrong was when the success he achieved raised expectations he was uncomfortable with.
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Post by LDE76 on May 1, 2016 11:03:46 GMT
Thank the Lord that insanity isn't contagious.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 1, 2016 11:05:56 GMT
I don't know whether to blame the manager or the players but being outnumbered 7-6 in the 92nd minute for their goal is pretty unforgivable. For such an experienced group, they dont half make some naive errors.
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Post by Pugsley on May 1, 2016 11:18:31 GMT
Hughes is way behind TP tactically? I'm sorry but I nearly choked laughing when I read that. Can you explain why that is ? If,as I suspect, you're going to say that we were more solid and harder to beat under Pulis then how come in his 3 seasons Hughes has accumulated more points than the other fella managed? Also if you take away the recent aberration the goals conceded column isn't much different between the two despite Hughes not playing a "back 8",allowing full backs over the half way line and attempting to win away games. If trying to protect a 0-0 and hope something drops from a set piece is your cup of tea then that's your perogative. Not for me though and ill take the odd hammering here and there for not having to go back there. Way behind TP tactically. .that made me laugh I will explain why. Pulis took a distinctively average championship team into the prem. Then kept up that team and established them as a good premier league side. He tactically outmanoeuvred fellow managers (such as Moyes, Hughes even bloody Mowbray) consistently. Rather than putting the team out and expecting them to win the game because they are better than the opposition, he had to tactically tweak the way we play in order to get results. This is where Hughes false down. Tactically he is naive, gets done by other managers too often, and the team doesn't seem to have any instruction or idea on the plan of specific games. The only time he does show some nous is when we are in the shit. Look at yesterday, he knew they would press, so the plan was to hit crouch and Arnie and shaq come in from the flanks for knock downs. Or at Bournemouth when we sacrificed possession to win the game. Hughes shows occasionally some thought, but as a manager he is very passive and naive which leads to him being done too often. Tactically tweak in what way? He had one way of playing - Plan A. When Plan A didn't work we kept with Plan A. Hughes has come in and tried to make us more expansive and to try and win more games. He has been mostly successful in doing that, as RESULTS, over the piece, have shown. If Toxic was that good tactically he'd of got a top job by now. He isn't, he's a one trick pony.
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Post by milky on May 1, 2016 13:20:15 GMT
Hughes is way behind TP tactically? I'm sorry but I nearly choked laughing when I read that. Can you explain why that is ? If,as I suspect, you're going to say that we were more solid and harder to beat under Pulis then how come in his 3 seasons Hughes has accumulated more points than the other fella managed? Also if you take away the recent aberration the goals conceded column isn't much different between the two despite Hughes not playing a "back 8",allowing full backs over the half way line and attempting to win away games. If trying to protect a 0-0 and hope something drops from a set piece is your cup of tea then that's your perogative. Not for me though and ill take the odd hammering here and there for not having to go back there. Way behind TP tactically. .that made me laugh I will explain why. Pulis took a distinctively average championship team into the prem. Then kept up that team and established them as a good premier league side. He tactically outmanoeuvred fellow managers (such as Moyes, Hughes even bloody Mowbray) consistently. Rather than putting the team out and expecting them to win the game because they are better than the opposition, he had to tactically tweak the way we play in order to get results. This is where Hughes false down. Tactically he is naive, gets done by other managers too often, and the team doesn't seem to have any instruction or idea on the plan of specific games. The only time he does show some nous is when we are in the shit. Look at yesterday, he knew they would press, so the plan was to hit crouch and Arnie and shaq come in from the flanks for knock downs. Or at Bournemouth when we sacrificed possession to win the game. Hughes shows occasionally some thought, but as a manager he is very passive and naive which leads to him being done too often. You've perfectly highlighted the one and only tactic Tone has ever been comfortable with.Spoiling.Stopping the opposition. Basically preventing a game of football taking place.And for the first couple of seasons perfectly acceptable and justifiable while finding our feet. Then we had the purple patch of a couple of months which led to the Cup final.It was fantastic and we played some good stuff.Ironic then that arguably his greatest achievement was also his downfall.He shit himself at the expectations and within months he tore it to bits and reached for his comfort blanket.We were then treated to insulting guff about how teams like Stoke couldn't play two wingers at places like Fulham. He wanted to play the underdog card still and only the brainwashed few were buying it. His tactical brilliance was perfectly summed up at the Brit last August. Trying to get the opposition players sent off,cheating, players feigning cramp when hanging on grimly against NINE men. If Tone is your bag then fine..trying to portray him as a tactical wizard is just plain daft though.
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Post by milky on May 1, 2016 14:39:02 GMT
TP's 'tactical nous' didn't extend to away games did it? And our best performances under him were when we had a settled side with square pegs kept to a minimum and he gave them some freedom. TP's best side was when we had a back 6 and a front 4...we had the cage where the 2 sitting players protected the defence, and the two wingers when they were both on song...that team had the perfect balance of Grit (Huthy, Ryan, Whelan etc.) and flair (Ethers, Pennant, Ric) Out of interest I wonder how many times Ric,Ethers and JP played together in a starting 11 ? I'd wager not many..away games probably never.
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