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Post by Bera’s Beano on Aug 31, 2015 13:20:59 GMT
Through the match on Saturday I couldn't help but think how much the way we had to defend as a unit will have helped Van Ginkel understand the defensive responsibilities he will need to get used to alongside Whelan for the rest of the season.
He will need to get forward from time to time but pick his moments wisely while still covering deeper when necessary.
This can only be good for us defensively because if he masters that balance then we don't need a new DM and it will knock on to help the defence so no new CB, and everyone can stop repeating themselves over and over again on every thread about how we need to sign one of each.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 13:22:13 GMT
very very weak needs to get some weights done
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Post by Gods on Aug 31, 2015 13:23:04 GMT
Perhaps, but don't forget he is only here for another 10 short months, we will need a longer term solution too I guess.
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Aug 31, 2015 13:38:45 GMT
Perhaps, but don't forget he is only here for another 10 short months, we will need a longer term solution too I guess. I think the lad we brought in from Real is meant to be long term successor for that role, Sergio Molina I think his name is but since he's only 19 and not ready we needed a temporary solution, Van Ginkel may not have been quite as finished an article as Hughes was after for the short term but he still can be good in there in the mean time.
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Aug 31, 2015 13:40:25 GMT
very very weak needs to get some weights done I agree with that yes, he could do with a Bojan style toughening up for a couple of months to help him control his area of the pitch a bit better. At the moment I think he is more suited to big games with smaller and nippier players who aren't quite as physical, doesn't look ready for a dog fight against relegation threatened teams.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 13:42:55 GMT
Perhaps, but don't forget he is only here for another 10 short months, we will need a longer term solution too I guess. I think the lad we brought in from Real is meant to be long term successor for that role, Sergio Molina I think his name is but since he's only 19 and not ready we needed a temporary solution, Van Ginkel may not have been quite as finished an article as Hughes was after for the short term but he still can be good in there in the mean time. I worry people are dangerously overrating Molina.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 13:46:25 GMT
So nice when you can read a new thread and absolutely agree totally with the first two posts !
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 31, 2015 13:47:26 GMT
I think the lad we brought in from Real is meant to be long term successor for that role, Sergio Molina I think his name is but since he's only 19 and not ready we needed a temporary solution, Van Ginkel may not have been quite as finished an article as Hughes was after for the short term but he still can be good in there in the mean time. I worry people are dangerously overrating Molina. Very much so. Real Madrid kids have been moving to all sorts of clubs this summer. He might be awesome, he looked very tidy vs Wolves but it will be a while yet before know.
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Post by eddyclamp on Aug 31, 2015 13:47:49 GMT
I think the lad we brought in from Real is meant to be long term successor for that role, Sergio Molina I think his name is but since he's only 19 and not ready we needed a temporary solution, Van Ginkel may not have been quite as finished an article as Hughes was after for the short term but he still can be good in there in the mean time. I worry people are dangerously overrating Molina. Molina was captain at Real through out all the different age groups I was told and the club believe they have dropped on so I think there will be a fair few of us watching his progress with interest
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 31, 2015 15:17:42 GMT
Perhaps, but don't forget he is only here for another 10 short months, we will need a longer term solution too I guess. Looking like we need one now, as a replacement for Zonz he is way short on attributes needed, I think Hughes has under estimated the role Zonz played and overestimated VG, so far we are looking a much weaker outfit than last season.
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Post by lordb on Aug 31, 2015 15:36:13 GMT
I think we are playing better than we did last August.
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Aug 31, 2015 16:22:24 GMT
I think the lad we brought in from Real is meant to be long term successor for that role, Sergio Molina I think his name is but since he's only 19 and not ready we needed a temporary solution, Van Ginkel may not have been quite as finished an article as Hughes was after for the short term but he still can be good in there in the mean time. I worry people are dangerously overrating Molina. Sorry Jase but in what way is what I've said supposed to be overrating Molina? Why would Hughes bother to get a player in at his age and level if he didn't have the intention of him turning into a first teamer? Since Defensive Midfield is his supposed area, why wouldn't he be down as a successor to that position? He isn't for this season, probably not even for next season but Hughes obviously has him down for the future first team...
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Aug 31, 2015 16:24:43 GMT
So nice when you can read a new thread and absolutely agree totally with the first two posts ! Cheers Tone. Pity the thread has been brought down with the usual negativity and the constant cries for DM and CB cover I was referring to in my OP. Van Ginkel will grow into the role gradually over the next few months and may even be a player we are looking to purchase if he fits into it long term, you never know in football, only thing predictable in this game is some of the posters on this site.
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Aug 31, 2015 16:25:11 GMT
I think we are playing better than we did last August. Agree there Lordb
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Post by cheadlestokie on Aug 31, 2015 16:27:17 GMT
I think we are playing better than we did last August. Now you mention it - yes,we probably are.
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Post by euan ouzami on Aug 31, 2015 16:43:10 GMT
I though van Ginkel was very good on Saturday, and worked hard. Stats apparently showed he ran further than any other player on the pitch.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 17:49:32 GMT
I worry people are dangerously overrating Molina. Sorry Jase but in what way is what I've said supposed to be overrating Molina? Why would Hughes bother to get a player in at his age and level if he didn't have the intention of him turning into a first teamer? Since Defensive Midfield is his supposed area, why wouldn't he be down as a successor to that position? He isn't for this season, probably not even for next season but Hughes obviously has him down for the future first team... Oh don't worry it wasn't solely aimed at you. But there's a good chance that Molina may never even feature for Stoke's first team, so for people to say we've got a short term option while he beds in etc is a bit optimistic. He wasn't even breaking in to the U21's right away. Stoke are a business as well as a club, they'll bring Molina Telford etc in, develop them and sell them on for profit if they don't fit into the plans. Just the way most youth development is if they're not talented enough to feature.
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Post by VolvicStokie on Aug 31, 2015 18:24:47 GMT
Van Gink was absolutely everywhere on Saturday.
Really impressed with him.
Not had the best start to his Stoke career but alot of foreigners need time.
He's clearly got talent, few more weeks and he'll be winning everyone else round
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Post by stokemanusa on Aug 31, 2015 18:35:36 GMT
very very weak needs to get some weights done Also needs to take it forward himself with impetus at times... he reminds me of the early Nzonzi. If he can decide quicker in his mind as well as get more physical he could be great!
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Post by stokemanusa on Aug 31, 2015 18:36:21 GMT
I though van Ginkel was very good on Saturday, and worked hard. Stats apparently showed he ran further than any other player on the pitch. He did. Good little engine on him that was nice to see.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 18:45:34 GMT
very very weak needs to get some weights done Also needs to take it forward himself with impetus at times... he reminds me of the early Nzonzi. If he can decide quicker in his mind as well as get more physical he could be great! He can get forward quickly though and maybe that is what MH is hoping he can develop
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Post by stokemanusa on Aug 31, 2015 18:48:08 GMT
Also needs to take it forward himself with impetus at times... he reminds me of the early Nzonzi. If he can decide quicker in his mind as well as get more physical he could be great! He can get forward quickly though and maybe that is what MH is hoping he can develop He can but sometimes it's the thought of ... ok go! I see lots of potential there in him and he can pass so that's good. I hope he gets better. The criticisms I have of the lad are easily learnt over playing time and well getting stuck in the PL, I think we'd be okay with him and Geoff rotating in that role only if we can get a fit capable and in form CB to move geoff forward.
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Sept 1, 2015 5:15:18 GMT
Sorry Jase but in what way is what I've said supposed to be overrating Molina? Why would Hughes bother to get a player in at his age and level if he didn't have the intention of him turning into a first teamer? Since Defensive Midfield is his supposed area, why wouldn't he be down as a successor to that position? He isn't for this season, probably not even for next season but Hughes obviously has him down for the future first team... Oh don't worry it wasn't solely aimed at you. But there's a good chance that Molina may never even feature for Stoke's first team, so for people to say we've got a short term option while he beds in etc is a bit optimistic. He wasn't even breaking in to the U21's right away. Stoke are a business as well as a club, they'll bring Molina Telford etc in, develop them and sell them on for profit if they don't fit into the plans. Just the way most youth development is if they're not talented enough to feature. I agree with that in principal and I'm aware of the ins and outs of the way a football club has to run as a business. But either way players have to be brought in with the intention that they will at least get near the first team squad, even if it eventually shows they aren't good enough and they should be sold for whatever we can get.
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Post by mosquito on Sept 1, 2015 6:02:42 GMT
People need to appreciate MVG has played very little Premier League football, due to injury and a loan spell, despite being at Chelsea for a couple of years. He is like a new player coming to the prem and news to find his feet.
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Post by Bowyer83 on Sept 1, 2015 6:16:56 GMT
very very weak needs to get some weights done I think a fitness regime similar to Bojan last season would suit VG. I don't think he's a bad player just needs a bit of toughening up.
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Post by Bowyer83 on Sept 1, 2015 6:20:28 GMT
Oh don't worry it wasn't solely aimed at you. But there's a good chance that Molina may never even feature for Stoke's first team, so for people to say we've got a short term option while he beds in etc is a bit optimistic. He wasn't even breaking in to the U21's right away. Stoke are a business as well as a club, they'll bring Molina Telford etc in, develop them and sell them on for profit if they don't fit into the plans. Just the way most youth development is if they're not talented enough to feature. I agree with that in principal and I'm aware of the ins and outs of the way a football club has to run as a business. But either way players have to be brought in with the intention that they will at least get near the first team squad, even if it eventually shows they aren't good enough and they should be sold for whatever we can get. Southampton have being doing it for years bringing through or buying in youngsters to develop in there youth team with the intention of starting them into the first team.
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Sept 1, 2015 6:24:11 GMT
Exactly, your initial intention when buying youth is to get them into the first team and increase their value along the way.
I don't think any club would bring talented youngsters in knowing they would never play for them (Exceptions being Chelsea and maybe Man City).
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Post by metalhead on Sept 1, 2015 9:14:39 GMT
He was a lot better on Saturday, but that's only because his performances before that were so so poor.
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Post by clarkeda on Sept 1, 2015 10:23:23 GMT
The sooner people stop comparing him to N'zonzi the quicker people will warm to him.
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 1, 2015 10:24:11 GMT
I though van Ginkel was very good on Saturday, and worked hard. Stats apparently showed he ran further than any other player on the pitch. Agreed
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