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Post by outspaced on Jul 31, 2015 23:56:35 GMT
And still waiting for an English player to be this good.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 31, 2015 23:58:58 GMT
But if he emerged in the modern age he would be hated.
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Post by outspaced on Aug 1, 2015 0:05:49 GMT
That's true Joe. I'm really uncomfortable with the 'hate' thing in nogger now. Hate people who bring misery on others, not footballers who behave like dicks now and again. The shift in time is telling. Gazza now would be slaughtered by fans of every other club he didn't play for. Just for sticking his tongue out.
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 1, 2015 0:13:49 GMT
That's true Joe. I'm really uncomfortable with the 'hate' thing in nogger now. Hate people who bring misery on others, not footballers who behave like dicks now and again. The shift in time is telling. Gazza now would be slaughtered by fans of every other club he didn't play for. Just for sticking his tongue out. For a lot of people now it's hate first think second. Great talent though he undoubtedly was there were some parts of Gazzas game that were infuriating. At times he wasn't as much of a team player as he might have been. Under pressure he didn't always make the right decision. But his staggering ability is unquestionable.
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Post by Gods on Aug 1, 2015 0:19:42 GMT
I know this is heresy but I can only call it as I saw it at the time and I just didn't like him.
He was all arms and elbows when running with the ball, his record does not match the subsequent adulation and worst of all he wasn't cool.
Shoot me down if you like but that is how I felt back in the day.
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Post by outspaced on Aug 1, 2015 0:20:53 GMT
He should have gone to Man United Joe. Fergie would have let him express the talent but at least tried to give him the discipline he needed. Why has there not been such a naturally talented player since? Was he just a one off?
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 1, 2015 0:21:15 GMT
I know this is heresy but I can only call it as I saw it at the time and I just didn't like him, he was all arms and elbows when running with the ball, his record does not stand up to the adulation but worst of all he wasn't cool. Shoot me down if you like! No shooting down from me it's a rational opinion.
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Post by outspaced on Aug 1, 2015 0:24:16 GMT
I get what you say Gods, that's why i think he was a one off, many flaws but he sometimes looked like he had the ball on a string at his feet. Close control was just superb. Why are there no English players who have that sort of skill anymore?
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Aug 1, 2015 0:34:23 GMT
He should have gone to Man United Joe. Fergie would have let him express the talent but at least tried to give him the discipline he needed. Why has there not been such a naturally talented player since? Was he just a one off? You're joking?
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 1, 2015 0:36:16 GMT
I'd say part of it is the way young players are so meticulously monitored and trained nowadays. Natural, impulsive, mercurial talent is coached out of modern players, or else falls by the wayside completely.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 1, 2015 0:37:10 GMT
He should have gone to Man United Joe. Fergie would have let him express the talent but at least tried to give him the discipline he needed. Why has there not been such a naturally talented player since? Was he just a one off? You're joking? Assume s/he means English
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Post by outspaced on Aug 1, 2015 0:49:54 GMT
Yep English. Somebody name one please!
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 1, 2015 1:32:51 GMT
I'd say part of it is the way young players are so meticulously monitored and trained nowadays. Natural, impulsive, mercurial talent is coached out of modern players, or else falls by the wayside completely. I disagree with the notion coaching is negative. What's needed is the right coaching.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Aug 1, 2015 1:49:39 GMT
Yep English. Somebody name one please! Shearer? Scholes? Beckham? Gerrard? Lampard? Terry?
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 1, 2015 1:51:33 GMT
I'd say part of it is the way young players are so meticulously monitored and trained nowadays. Natural, impulsive, mercurial talent is coached out of modern players, or else falls by the wayside completely. I disagree with the notion coaching is negative. What's needed is the right coaching. I'm certainly not saying coaching is a negative thing. I just get the impression that the modern game is so fine-tuned towards athleticism, economy of movement, formations, inch-perfect team passing etc that there is less and less room for the flawed individual genius. Would a chubby, ill-disciplined, wayward kid like Gazza (or Le Tissier, or Hoddle, or Hudson or Best for that matter) even make it through all the stages of youth/academy development to the first team of a top-flight club nowadays? I'm not convinced he would. Maybe I'm just being misty-eyed, I dunno.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Aug 1, 2015 1:52:54 GMT
I disagree with the notion coaching is negative. What's needed is the right coaching. I'm certainly not saying coaching is a negative thing. I just get the impression that the modern game is so fine-tuned towards athleticism, economy of movement, formations, inch-perfect team passing etc that there is less and less room for the flawed individual genius. Would a chubby, ill-disciplined, wayward kid like Gazza (or Le Tissier, or Hoddle, or Hudson or Best for that matter) even make it through all the stages of youth/academy development to the first team of a top-flight club nowadays? I'm not convinced he would. Maybe I'm just being misty-eyed, I dunno. It'd be a lot harder for him in todays game that's for sure.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 1, 2015 1:54:56 GMT
Yep English. Somebody name one please! Shearer? Scholes? Beckham? Gerrard? Lampard? Terry? He's talking about natural ability on the ball. Obviously none of those come close to Gascoigne in that respect.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Aug 1, 2015 1:58:54 GMT
Shearer? Scholes? Beckham? Gerrard? Lampard? Terry? He's talking about natural ability on the ball. Obviously none of those come close to Gascoigne in that respect. Paul Scholes is one of the greatest midfielders of all time. If you're talking about flair and that instinctive kind of dribbling and close control then I can't really think of one.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 1, 2015 2:24:40 GMT
He's talking about natural ability on the ball. Obviously none of those come close to Gascoigne in that respect. Paul Scholes is one of the greatest midfielders of all time. If you're talking about flair and that instinctive kind of dribbling and close control then I can't really think of one. Yeah I almost added with the possible exception of Scholes. Different skill set though, as you say.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 2:25:49 GMT
Agree with earlier poster regarding having a strict disciplinarian manager, Terry Venables was just not up to it, and a Fergie type figure would have kept him on the straight and narrow for sure, and we'd have seen a lot more of him. Still love the goal against the Jocks at Wembley, just class....
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Post by breakonthrough on Aug 1, 2015 3:53:20 GMT
I generally love gazza flaws and all I think its what made him, what a player he was and could have been...I'd love players to be like that these days but they'd probably get taken the wrong way and I'm not particularly old.
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Post by newsteadst3 on Aug 1, 2015 4:25:52 GMT
Agree with earlier poster regarding having a strict disciplinarian manager, Terry Venables was just not up to it, and a Fergie type figure would have kept him on the straight and narrow for sure, and we'd have seen a lot more of him. Still love the goal against the Jocks at Wembley, just class.... Dont need to be offensive marra, utter myth though mate, did Ferguson stop McGrath n whitesides drinking ??? No he binned them off, did he stop cantona attacking that palace fan, or prevent Keane in Saipan or ravel morrisons antics, no he just bins them off, the ones who do well under him are sensible lads , giggs ,Neville, scholes, the sensible ones , gazza was an accident waiting to happen regardless who was managing him .
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 5:03:44 GMT
Agree with earlier poster regarding having a strict disciplinarian manager, Terry Venables was just not up to it, and a Fergie type figure would have kept him on the straight and narrow for sure, and we'd have seen a lot more of him. Still love the goal against the Jocks at Wembley, just class.... Dont need to be offensive marra, utter myth though mate, did Ferguson stop McGrath n whitesides drinking ??? No he binned them off, did he stop cantona attacking that palace fan, or prevent Keane in Saipan or ravel morrisons antics, no he just bins them off, the ones who do well under him are sensible lads , giggs ,Neville, scholes, the sensible ones , gazza was an accident waiting to happen regardless who was managing him . Hearwhat you are saying, but I think he'd have bought the best out of Gazza, look at Rooney, wobbled a bit, then back on track,same with Becks to a degree, not booze though, just letting things off the pitch overshadow things on it. And as far as Cantona is concerned, no manager would have either forseen or indeed stopped that incident, and the palace fan was a cunt slagging off cantona's mum, that's a line no one should cross, and that's abuse no one should endure.
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Post by rawli on Aug 1, 2015 5:40:59 GMT
Agree with earlier poster regarding having a strict disciplinarian manager, Terry Venables was just not up to it, and a Fergie type figure would have kept him on the straight and narrow for sure, and we'd have seen a lot more of him. Still love the goal against the Jocks at Wembley, just class.... Dont need to be offensive marra, utter myth though mate, did Ferguson stop McGrath n whitesides drinking ??? No he binned them off, did he stop cantona attacking that palace fan, or prevent Keane in Saipan or ravel morrisons antics, no he just bins them off, the ones who do well under him are sensible lads , giggs ,Neville, scholes, the sensible ones , gazza was an accident waiting to happen regardless who was managing him . I think he would have had more of a chance being managed by Ferguson than by Venables. He needed a father figure rather than a flash uncle who would let him do whatever he wanted. Mind you if he'd gone to Man United we'd have all hated him now.
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Post by newsteadst3 on Aug 1, 2015 6:02:11 GMT
Yeah , I remember cloughy saying , I cannot believe Venables let gascoinge out for that final v forest, but I think Ferguson probably wouldn't of done, so here what Yu guys say
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 6:33:46 GMT
Every time there is an England game on ITV they do a piece where they talk about Wilshere being the new Gazza. I find it odd, not only because Wilshere is nowhere near good enough to be compared to him, but because he's a completely different type of player.
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Post by basingstokie on Aug 1, 2015 6:40:21 GMT
He should have gone to Man United Joe. Fergie would have let him express the talent but at least tried to give him the discipline he needed. Why has there not been such a naturally talented player since? Was he just a one off? Le Tissier is the only other person who comes close imo
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Post by roostershair on Aug 1, 2015 7:00:30 GMT
He grabbed life by the balls. As did Vinnie! Don't know how to do the photo thing!!
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Post by salopstick on Aug 1, 2015 7:12:49 GMT
But if he emerged in the modern age he would be hated. Only if he was a diving, whinging, imaginerary card waving, arrogant, money grabbing prick
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 7:50:06 GMT
Gazza wouldn't be hated now at all.
People are getting confused between a world class footballer who was a bit cheeky, and a group of pretend world class footballers that act like spoilt film stars.
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