|
Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 9, 2015 17:28:57 GMT
I will give you that one. If you were Hughes, seriously, would you go to Everton right now?
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Mar 9, 2015 17:28:52 GMT
They are a bigger club than us in any way you care to measure it. Put it a different way. Imagine Man Utd are the Selfridge's food hall. Man City are Waitrose. Wverton are Sainsbury's. We are LiDL. And nothing wrong with that, by the way. Man City are Waitrose now but used to be the bloody corner shop. That is the point, it is a moveable feast. Everton are a much bigger club than Manchester City Forget the cash they are awash with .....I'm talking in general
|
|
|
Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 9, 2015 17:31:04 GMT
I don't mean to be funny, but so by what are we judging the size of clubs?
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Mar 9, 2015 17:31:53 GMT
I don't mean to be funny, but so by what are we judging the size of clubs? For me History, honours and support
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 9, 2015 17:32:24 GMT
I will give you that one. If you were Hughes, seriously, would you go to Everton right now? Tomorrow? No. In the summer? Hmmm... If I was an ambitious manager who'd left middling clubs for bigger ones before and fancied another crack at one? I could imagine him giving it some serious thought, and certainly not dismissing it out of hand.
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 9, 2015 17:32:57 GMT
I don't mean to be funny, but so by what are we judging the size of clubs? All that stuff that's been mentioned. What's your criteria?
|
|
|
Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 9, 2015 17:40:35 GMT
I don't mean to be funny, but so by what are we judging the size of clubs? All that stuff that's been mentioned. What's your criteria? Well position and status in whatever division. I also feel that the tv money, and FFP, could now be levelling the playing field. Leeds are a "big club" by the parameters mentiontioned on here. Yet they have little to no relevance on the top league of English football.
|
|
|
Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 9, 2015 17:42:54 GMT
I don't mean to be funny, but so by what are we judging the size of clubs? For me History, honours and support Absolutely, but right now, it is all about money.
|
|
|
Post by colinroberts1 on Mar 9, 2015 17:50:36 GMT
Do you think he would go? He does seem like a good option for them at the moment. I would hope he would stay and be loyal to us, given we have helped him ressurect his career. I would certainly be worried if they did. No ! They've already got the bestestest manager ,ever !
|
|
|
Post by Trouserdog on Mar 9, 2015 17:52:14 GMT
What's the other side of the argument? They're having a ropey season (and are still in decent shape in Europe for all that). Does that really negate everything else? What else is there now though. Gate receipts v tv revenue renderers them virtually insignificant. They have a more successful history, but that is just that, history. And apart from Lakaku, I don't remember them being a big spending club. You must be tripping your tits off if you think we're as big a club as Everton.
|
|
|
Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 9, 2015 17:59:08 GMT
What else is there now though. Gate receipts v tv revenue renderers them virtually insignificant. They have a more successful history, but that is just that, history. And apart from Lakaku, I don't remember them being a big spending club. You must be tripping your tits off if you think we're as big a club as Everton. Fair enough buddy, so if Everton were to get sucked in and relegated....they would still be a bigger club. Just like Leeds...I can live with that all day long.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Mar 9, 2015 18:03:12 GMT
I think there are only 2-3 teams that we need to worry about unless Hughes does something astonishing which'd bring him back into the conversation for Man Utd in a couple of years.
And Everton are almost certainly one.
I don't think a hypothetical Everton move in the next few months would be open and shut either way.
Their wage bill, which is supposedly the biggest barometer of league punching power, is comparable (£69m v £61m) with us. So it seems that under Kenwright, they're destined to be well beneath the big 6 with their £100m+ wage bills - so they'll in all likelihood be in the same tier of the table as us for the foreseeable future.
There's no debate that they're a much bigger club, based in a much bigger city, with a much more storied history - and they have a veneer of bigclubness we'll never have, and that only 7 or 8 clubs in England have.
But what that actually translates to right now, who knows?
The Lukaku splash seems a complete one-off and there won't be any proper money forthcoming to make them a legitimate top 4 candidate any time soon. Moyes did a fantastic job there.
If he had a straightforward choice between clubs, you'd think he'd instinctively go there as the whole package has them a level above us. But after 2 years here, with feet under the table and hopefully some feeling for the club developed, it's probably not sp clear cut.
I'm not sure Martinez would be on a much bigger salary than Hughes will be here once he hopefully signs his new deal and I don't think there's a massive edge in spending power to look forward to there over the next 5 yrs.
Then there's the intangibles like loyalty, the feeling he owes Coates something (maybe at lest one more year), potentially wanting to make history here and be a legend. There's slightly less pressure here too, but I'm not sure that applies in Hughes' case as he seems to thrive in setting himself high targets.
I don't think he's the type to just settle on a Stoke-type team indefinitely, but aren't sure Everton are a sure enough jump up the ladder for him to throw away what he has.
I don't think Kenwright will pull the trigger on Martinez until next Oct/Nov at the earliest anyway, and nothing to suggest they'd target Hughes
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 9, 2015 18:07:59 GMT
Bigger club? Different stratosphere.
Better job than he' got now? I'm not sure it is, particularly with some heavy backing almost certain in the Summer.
|
|
|
Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 9, 2015 18:16:10 GMT
Bigger club? Different stratosphere. Better job than he' got now? I'm not sure it is, particularly with some heavy backing almost certain in the Summer. What do you mean different stratosphere?
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 9, 2015 18:21:40 GMT
Bigger club? Different stratosphere. Better job than he' got now? I'm not sure it is, particularly with some heavy backing almost certain in the Summer. What do you mean different stratosphere? They are one of the traditional big clubs of England. A support nationally and internationally that dwarfs ours. Sure they're not Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal but they're miles ahead of us in every respect. So are Villa.
|
|
|
Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 9, 2015 18:23:15 GMT
Agreed in the traditional terms. What if either team were to go down?
|
|
|
Post by Onneravineet on Mar 9, 2015 18:24:41 GMT
What is better on offer concerning Everton though? Bigger club, bigger potential, bigger budget, greater history... Bigger Club: Yes Greater History: Yes The thing is they recorded a good upturn in support last year with Martinez and their 5th position finish. The capacity is just shy of 40k. Their NEW stadium is going to happen no time soon, in fact if EVER. They are ripe for a Sheik takeover BUT Hughes has been there before and it didn't end well. Plus there are other clubs that offer much more to any budding Billionaire fancying a takeover. So, he could perhaps lead them to another 5th position, I doubt they'll crack the top four without significant funds being spent. Recent history tells you that they haven't the power to do that to the expense of the bigger budgeted clubs. He could increase their attendances by 1k!? This potential...I don't agree. Greater future? In terms of what an FA Cup win would mean to Everton as opposed to what an FA Cup win would mean to Stoke? He would gain far more plaudits here and would go down as our most successful manager EVER! No argument. Bigger budget? I don't think they do have. They have a larger revenue from their attendances but we've all seen the percentage of turnover that it actually contributes to, Arse and the Shit aside. TV Money is where it is at and to maintain that the stadiums will need to be kept full. I think other clubs will follow Stoke in the future and reduce their costs...again aside from the Arse and the Shit. We have a far richer owner and a worldwide powerhouse behind the club. Plus if he adds to the attendance and goes on to increase the crowd, through our assumed continued progression witnessed these last two years, then that is also something HE can be proud of as I am sure TP is with his huge and significant contribution to the Club. So, I agree. They are a bigger club. They have a greater History BUT do they have a brighter or more significant contribution in terms of legacy? For me, no. Stoke are a good club. A very good club that is well run. We have potential to reach 35k attendances over the next 5 years with continued development and I would think 5 years achieving that would do Hughes no harm and it would be something he would want to achieve in my humble opinion.
|
|
|
Post by thepremierbanksy on Mar 9, 2015 18:25:23 GMT
I think there are only 2-3 teams that we need to worry about unless Hughes does something astonishing which'd bring him back into the conversation for Man Utd in a couple of years. And Everton are almost certainly one. I don't think a hypothetical Everton move in the next few months would be open and shut either way. Their wage bill, which is supposedly the biggest barometer of league punching power, is comparable (£69m v £61m) with us. So it seems that under Kenwright, they're destined to be well beneath the big 6 with their £100m+ wage bills - so they'll in all likelihood be in the same tier of the table as us for the foreseeable future. There's no debate that they're a much bigger club, based in a much bigger city, with a much more storied history - and they have a veneer of bigclubness we'll never have, and that only 7 or 8 clubs in England have. But what that actually translates to right now, who knows? The Lukaku splash seems a complete one-off and there won't be any proper money forthcoming to make them a legitimate top 4 candidate any time soon. Moyes did a fantastic job there. If he had a straightforward choice between clubs, you'd think he'd instinctively go there as the whole package has them a level above us. But after 2 years here, with feet under the table and hopefully some feeling for the club developed, it's probably not sp clear cut. I'm not sure Martinez would be on a much bigger salary than Hughes will be here once he hopefully signs his new deal and I don't think there's a massive edge in spending power to look forward to there over the next 5 yrs. Then there's the intangibles like loyalty, the feeling he owes Coates something (maybe at lest one more year), potentially wanting to make history here and be a legend. There's slightly less pressure here too, but I'm not sure that applies in Hughes' case as he seems to thrive in setting himself high targets. I don't think he's the type to just settle on a Stoke-type team indefinitely, but aren't sure Everton are a sure enough jump up the ladder for him to throw away what he has. I don't think Kenwright will pull the trigger on Martinez until next Oct/Nov at the earliest anyway, and nothing to suggest they'd target Hughes Out of interest who would you class as the others, FM?
|
|
|
Post by enuntio on Mar 9, 2015 18:27:05 GMT
It's not the perceived size of the club, Leeds, Rangers, err... It's the funding, have Everton got the funds to poach and back a new manager? They still haven't got round to building their new ground and Ken is no idiot with his money. New backers then maybe, but as it stands.NO
|
|
|
Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 9, 2015 18:28:21 GMT
Bigger club, bigger potential, bigger budget, greater history... Bigger Club: Yes Greater History: Yes The thing is they recorded a good upturn in support last year with Martinez and their 5th position finish. The capacity is just shy of 40k. Their NEW stadium is going to happen no time soon, in fact if EVER. They are ripe for a Sheik takeover BUT Hughes has been there before and it didn't end well. Plus there are other clubs that offer much more to any budding Billionaire fancying a takeover. So, he could perhaps lead them to another 5th position, I doubt they'll crack the top four without significant funds being spent. Recent history tells you that they haven't the power to do that to the expense of the bigger budgeted clubs. He could increase their attendances by 1k!? This potential...I don't agree. Greater future? In terms of what an FA Cup win would mean to Everton as opposed to what an FA Cup win would mean to Stoke? He would gain far more plaudits here and would go down as our most successful manager EVER! No argument. Bigger budget? I don't think they do have. They have a larger revenue from their attendances but we've all seen the percentage of turnover that it actually contributes to, Arse and the Shit aside. TV Money is where it is at and to maintain that the stadiums will need to be kept full. I think other clubs will follow Stoke in the future and reduce their costs...again aside from the Arse and the Shit. We have a far richer owner and a worldwide powerhouse behind the club. Plus if he adds to the attendance and goes on to increase the crowd, through our assumed continued progression witnessed these last two years, then that is also something HE can be proud of as I am sure TP is with his huge and significant contribution to the Club. So, I agree. They are a bigger club. They have a greater History BUT do they have a brighter or more significant contribution in terms of legacy? For me, no. Stoke are a good club. A very good club that is well run. We have potential to reach 35k attendances over the next 5 years with continued development and I would think 5 years achieving that would do Hughes no harm and it would be something he would want to achieve in my humble opinion. Very well said.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 18:38:30 GMT
Bigger club? Different stratosphere. Better job than he' got now? I'm not sure it is, particularly with some heavy backing almost certain in the Summer. What makes you think/know he'll get heavy backing in the summer?
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Mar 9, 2015 18:39:16 GMT
I think there are only 2-3 teams that we need to worry about unless Hughes does something astonishing which'd bring him back into the conversation for Man Utd in a couple of years. And Everton are almost certainly one. I don't think a hypothetical Everton move in the next few months would be open and shut either way. Their wage bill, which is supposedly the biggest barometer of league punching power, is comparable (£69m v £61m) with us. So it seems that under Kenwright, they're destined to be well beneath the big 6 with their £100m+ wage bills - so they'll in all likelihood be in the same tier of the table as us for the foreseeable future. There's no debate that they're a much bigger club, based in a much bigger city, with a much more storied history - and they have a veneer of bigclubness we'll never have, and that only 7 or 8 clubs in England have. But what that actually translates to right now, who knows? The Lukaku splash seems a complete one-off and there won't be any proper money forthcoming to make them a legitimate top 4 candidate any time soon. Moyes did a fantastic job there. If he had a straightforward choice between clubs, you'd think he'd instinctively go there as the whole package has them a level above us. But after 2 years here, with feet under the table and hopefully some feeling for the club developed, it's probably not sp clear cut. I'm not sure Martinez would be on a much bigger salary than Hughes will be here once he hopefully signs his new deal and I don't think there's a massive edge in spending power to look forward to there over the next 5 yrs. Then there's the intangibles like loyalty, the feeling he owes Coates something (maybe at lest one more year), potentially wanting to make history here and be a legend. There's slightly less pressure here too, but I'm not sure that applies in Hughes' case as he seems to thrive in setting himself high targets. I don't think he's the type to just settle on a Stoke-type team indefinitely, but aren't sure Everton are a sure enough jump up the ladder for him to throw away what he has. I don't think Kenwright will pull the trigger on Martinez until next Oct/Nov at the earliest anyway, and nothing to suggest they'd target Hughes Out of interest who would you class as the others, FM? Thinking about it, Banksy, I think they're probably in a group of one as it stands which is probably why it's such a good debate point. Even geographically we're a good fit presuming he's spent nearly all his adult life in some leafy part of north Cheshire. Unless someone with the potential of Newcastle or Villa sort themselves out, it's hard to think of any other clubs that'd give him a serious decision to make - assuming he's not a name any of the really big boys would give a second thought to. I don't know what he'd have to do here to make himself a contender for Man Utd, which must be his dream job, but it'd be fun seeing him try and do it! From his point of view, it'd be a shame if his Man City (and QPR!) experience had ended his chances of getting that type of job (I remember he was very seriously linked with Chelsea before that?) - but it's hard to really see himself rehabilitating himself sufficiently to make that a go-er, despite his history at Old Trafford. Suppose there's always the chance a random foreign club could take a flyer on him and I wouldn't be surprised if he was the type who'd fancy it, but we look like being a good fit for the next 3 or 4 years unless he either underperforms or overperforms amazingly.
|
|
|
Post by thepremierbanksy on Mar 9, 2015 18:44:38 GMT
Out of interest who would you class as the others, FM? Thinking about it, Banksy, I think they're probably in a group of one as it stands which is probably why it's such a good debate point. Even geographically we're a good fit presuming he's spent nearly all his adult life in some leafy part of north Cheshire. Unless someone with the potential of Newcastle or Villa sort themselves out, it's hard to think of any other clubs that'd give him a serious decision to make - assuming he's not a name any of the really big boys would give a second thought to. I don't know what he'd have to do here to make himself a contender for Man Utd, which must be his dream job, but it'd be fun seeing him try and do it! From his point of view, it'd be a shame if his Man City (and QPR!) experience had ended his chances of getting that type of job (I remember he was very seriously linked with Chelsea before that?) - but it's hard to really see himself rehabilitating himself sufficiently to make that a go-er, despite his history at Old Trafford. Suppose there's always the chance a random foreign club could take a flyer on him and I wouldn't be surprised if he was the type who'd fancy it, but we look like being a good fit for the next 3 or 4 years unless he either underperforms or overperforms amazingly. Yep agree with that - if he thought he had the stability and resources to succeed at Villa or Toon I think he'd give it a crack - not much chance of that any time soon. Possibly an outside chance he could get a bash at Spurs or Arsenal, but probably only if he wins a cup or get us into 6th or something. Only other domestic outsider is Southampton should Koeman leave - he might see them as a pretty similar kettle of fish as Stoke just with a much better academy. For now the odds on favourite is he sticks around at Stoke. I reckon he'll fancy himself to make a really special side here now we have a star like Bojan amongst the ranks.
|
|
|
Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 9, 2015 18:45:34 GMT
Why would Newcastle or Villa be a better option?
|
|
|
Post by str8outtahampton on Mar 9, 2015 19:02:00 GMT
They are a bigger club than us in any way you care to measure it. Put it a different way. Imagine Man Utd are the Selfridge's food hall. Man City are Waitrose. Wverton are Sainsbury's. We are LiDL. And nothing wrong with that, by the way. Man City are Waitrose now but used to be the bloody corner shop. That is the point, it is a moveable feast. Most things in life are a moveable feast But this particular feast moves at the pace of an elderly and lazy snail with rheumatoid arthritis. Man City may have been a corner shop (and nothing ring with that, either), but a corner shop with: (a) the potential to get 40,000+ through the gates on a routine basis; (b) with very large away followings; (c) with FA cups and league titles under its belt (albeit not recently) and (d) also a European title. Man City also have a further USP - they are not Man Utd. Whether or not it is true, they can trade on the perception that that they are the club that local supporters support. For all those reasons, they were and are an attractive prospect for a rich backer. I don't agree that Everton have traditionally been "bigger" than Man City. But I do agree that they are stratospherically beyond SCFC. And I am entirely comfortable with that.
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 9, 2015 19:11:21 GMT
You must be tripping your tits off if you think we're as big a club as Everton. Fair enough buddy, so if Everton were to get sucked in and relegated....they would still be a bigger club. Just like Leeds...I can live with that all day long. If they got relegated they'd still be a bigger club but not a viable option for an ambitious player or manager. Way different from a poor season the year after finishing 5th.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 20:25:56 GMT
Do you think he would go? He does seem like a good option for them at the moment. I would hope he would stay and be loyal to us, given we have helped him ressurect his career. I would certainly be worried if they did. Can't see them sacking Martinez or, in the unlikely event that they did, Hughsey wouldn't go there. He's building something good at Stoke and wouldn't want to take a backwards step. Just because everton have not sacked a manager for a while does not mean they won't. If martinez loses the dressing room he could be in trouble. I think Hughes would be the stand out manager for the job unless they could tempt moyes back. Stoke are deemed an unattractive club and i think if the chance came Hughes would go as he would personally get more attention. Everton are far from a backward step and possibly the only club i can see who would tempt hughes away.
|
|
|
Post by Titan Uranus on Mar 9, 2015 20:29:39 GMT
Out of interest who would you class as the others, FM? Thinking about it, Banksy, I think they're probably in a group of one as it stands which is probably why it's such a good debate point. Even geographically we're a good fit presuming he's spent nearly all his adult life in some leafy part of north Cheshire. Unless someone with the potential of Newcastle or Villa sort themselves out, it's hard to think of any other clubs that'd give him a serious decision to make - assuming he's not a name any of the really big boys would give a second thought to. I don't know what he'd have to do here to make himself a contender for Man Utd, which must be his dream job, but it'd be fun seeing him try and do it! From his point of view, it'd be a shame if his Man City (and QPR!) experience had ended his chances of getting that type of job (I remember he was very seriously linked with Chelsea before that?) - but it's hard to really see himself rehabilitating himself sufficiently to make that a go-er, despite his history at Old Trafford. Suppose there's always the chance a random foreign club could take a flyer on him and I wouldn't be surprised if he was the type who'd fancy it, but we look like being a good fit for the next 3 or 4 years unless he either underperforms or overperforms amazingly. Yep...as I said earlier.... 3-4 years here If he does very well ...one of the nesrly big boys (Spurs type) If he does ok but gets frustrated about funding...sleeping newly funded giant (Leeds Everton) If does crap...sack and Championship club. For some reason dont think he will be here long term.
|
|
|
Post by Onneravineet on Mar 9, 2015 21:11:46 GMT
Bigger Club: Yes Greater History: Yes The thing is they recorded a good upturn in support last year with Martinez and their 5th position finish. The capacity is just shy of 40k. Their NEW stadium is going to happen no time soon, in fact if EVER. They are ripe for a Sheik takeover BUT Hughes has been there before and it didn't end well. Plus there are other clubs that offer much more to any budding Billionaire fancying a takeover. So, he could perhaps lead them to another 5th position, I doubt they'll crack the top four without significant funds being spent. Recent history tells you that they haven't the power to do that to the expense of the bigger budgeted clubs. He could increase their attendances by 1k!? This potential...I don't agree. Greater future? In terms of what an FA Cup win would mean to Everton as opposed to what an FA Cup win would mean to Stoke? He would gain far more plaudits here and would go down as our most successful manager EVER! No argument. Bigger budget? I don't think they do have. They have a larger revenue from their attendances but we've all seen the percentage of turnover that it actually contributes to, Arse and the Shit aside. TV Money is where it is at and to maintain that the stadiums will need to be kept full. I think other clubs will follow Stoke in the future and reduce their costs...again aside from the Arse and the Shit. We have a far richer owner and a worldwide powerhouse behind the club. Plus if he adds to the attendance and goes on to increase the crowd, through our assumed continued progression witnessed these last two years, then that is also something HE can be proud of as I am sure TP is with his huge and significant contribution to the Club. So, I agree. They are a bigger club. They have a greater History BUT do they have a brighter or more significant contribution in terms of legacy? For me, no. Stoke are a good club. A very good club that is well run. We have potential to reach 35k attendances over the next 5 years with continued development and I would think 5 years achieving that would do Hughes no harm and it would be something he would want to achieve in my humble opinion. Very well said. Cheers..bit of a waffle but I do believe we would come out on top vs Everton.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Mar 14, 2015 10:21:50 GMT
Carragher in MailHughes revival will put big clubs on alert There is a big game in the Midlands with West Bromwich Albion coming up against Stoke.
Praise for the work of Albion’s Tony Pulis, the former Stoke boss, shows no sign of dwindling, particularly after he was named manager of the month for February.
West Brom are thriving under his guidance and there is little doubt they will be in the Barclays Premier League next season.
But what about Mark Hughes, the man who succeeded Pulis at Stoke?
Without grabbing any headlines, Hughes has impressively manoeuvred Stoke into eighth place in the Premier League and they have built on their efforts of last season. They spent just £1.2million last summer, and lost Bojan Krkic to a serious knee injury, but they continue to get good results. Only Liverpool and Arsenal have picked up more points since Boxing Day.
The work Hughes has done at the Britannia Stadium seems to have gone under the radar. His journey since he was sacked in a poor manner by Manchester City in December 2009 hasn’t always been smooth.
For instance, he was criticised for the way he left Fulham in 2011 and was then sacked by Queens Park Rangers after spending less than a year at Loftus Road, even though he kept them in the top flight in May 2012. But he has rebuilt his reputation in the Potteries and looks like he will be rewarded with a new contract.
If he continues to make such impressive strides, he may get the chance once again to work at a club that can regularly compete for top honours.
|
|