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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 14:22:35 GMT
Burnley fans feel a bit victimised and I can see their point. It looked horrific, but I'm not at all convinced there was any intent at all. But, much the same with the Shawcross one, it all gets lost once the incident involves a big London club with a nutty manager and the feeding frenzy begins I very much doubt we would be hearing much more of the whole story had it been lets say Hull V Burnley
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Post by reddipotter on Feb 23, 2015 14:51:30 GMT
Many years ago John McEnroe frequently protested about poor line calls etc. At the time he was criticised, and often appeared to have gone over the top. However, he was largely responsible for significant improvements in officiating at tennis matches so that the sport has almost entirely removed errors. Mourinho's current campaign reminds me of that and he needs sensible support from other managers all saying that the current level of errors from officials is not acceptable in the 21st century. I know that football is more complicated than tennis, but I am finding it increasingly difficult to watch football when I know that justice is very likely not to be done. The Chelsea game was not the only one at the weekend where the result was directly affected by refereeing mistakes. And it is the same EVERY weekend.
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Post by shrewspotter on Feb 23, 2015 15:00:28 GMT
Forgetting Chelsea for a minute, some of the poor calls are out of order, all clubs have been on the receiving end of bad decisions, ones in favour and against. I don't want poor decisions just correct calls and let the best team win.
It is high time some technology was used to help officials for crucial decisions such as Penalties, sending off etc.
It will take England being knocked out of the World Cup in such manner before the FA do anything
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 15:20:42 GMT
Not sure if it is frivolous tbh, he has pushed him in the chest. Albeit quite hard, there was no danger of the player being injured. I hate Chelsea but for once I honestly think they are correct on this one. Don't think the FA will have the balls to refuse this one, otherwise they will have to come out in condemnation of the Burnley player. For me a red card for Burnley player with a 3 match ban minimum and a yellow for Matic with a message of do that again and you will get a ban. Mourinho has been very clever in the way he has put his point across and tied Goals on Sunday into knots, although at no point does he accept that his team ever do anything wrong. I'm not sure I could disagree any more! For a start Matic pushes Barnes in the back doesn't he? Barnes is walking away from Matic who runs after him so he'd being doing well to push him in the chest! Second, it doesn't matter what the original player had done, if the other player retaliates like that, off you go. Them's the rules. Yes, we can all understand Matic's reaction to a possible leg-breaker, but in the rules of football he should have let the referee take the appropriate action. The ref took none, that's the ref's fuck up, it's not for Matic to take things into his own hands. If he gets let off that red card after that reaction, it'll be a disgrace and a sign that the FA simply don't have the balls to stand up to Chelsea and Mourinho. You can't give a retrospective red card to Barnes for that tackle for two reasons: first the ref saw it and took no action, therefore it is done and dusted as far as the FA are concerned and second it is not like throwing a punch or an elbow ie nothing to do with football. It was an effort to go for the ball during a tackle even if he did mean to leave some afters on Matic (and the meaning to bit is arguable). What should've happened is a yellow or red at the time for Barnes, Matic stays on the floor to get some treatment (not that he needed any as he was fine!) and that would have been that. Instead the dick loses his rag, retaliates, is correctly sent off and Mourinho spits his dummy. If the FA can't see that they're a bunch of spineless tossers who will bend their own 'rules' when it suits for big clubs, especially when a final is involved. I think we all know that is the case anyway, but we'll have to see what happens with this one. Imagine if Liverpool reach the FA Cup Final. The soon-to-depart Gerrard will be allowed to take a fucking machine gun onto the pitch in games leading up to it and get any red card overturned
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 23, 2015 15:46:56 GMT
At least it diverts all of the media attention from the racism scandal in Paris to poor old Chelsea being the victims. He's off, it's violent conduct see you later. The FA are opening themselves right up if they rescind this. Trouble is, the FA are a bunch of Wankers, they know a lot of people think they are a bunch of Wankers, the bunch of Wankers don't seem to care though, so don't be surprised if they overrule the red card.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 15:56:00 GMT
It wasn't a great challenge but it doesn't give Matic the right to take the law into his own hands. You just have to hope the referee takes the appropriate action at the time, or that it's dealt with retrospectively. Or, failing that, you exact your own revenge later in the match.....
I remember when Wilko got smashed into the air by a late and dangerous lunge from Seb Larsson at The Brit a few years ago. Wilko instantly got to his feet, dusted himself off and even shook his opponents hand for the privilege.
You take it like a man or just get on with it. If you react like Matic then you get what you deserve.
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Post by 2004 on Feb 23, 2015 16:13:57 GMT
The word "frivilous" always makes me laugh.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 23, 2015 16:17:45 GMT
I remember when Wilko got smashed into the air by a late and dangerous lunge from Seb Larsson at The Brit a few years ago. Wilko instantly got to his feet, dusted himself off and even shook his opponents hand for the privilege. You don't remember it very well, it was Craig Gardner "But he (Wilkinson) got up, shook his hand, dusted himself down and got on with the game. That is the way it used to be.
"We talk - and I have been one - about people diving in boxes and falling over, and there is a lot made of that.
"Have a look at what Wilko has done there. That is the spirit of the game and that is men playing against men. It is not boys - it is a man's game and I thought he was very good in doing what he did." ~ Tony Pulis.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 16:19:45 GMT
I remember when Wilko got smashed into the air by a late and dangerous lunge from Seb Larsson at The Brit a few years ago. Wilko instantly got to his feet, dusted himself off and even shook his opponents hand for the privilege. You don't remember it very well, it was Craig Gardner "But he (Wilkinson) got up, shook his hand, dusted himself down and got on with the game. That is the way it used to be.
"We talk - and I have been one - about people diving in boxes and falling over, and there is a lot made of that.
"Have a look at what Wilko has done there. That is the spirit of the game and that is men playing against men. It is not boys - it is a man's game and I thought he was very good in doing what he did." ~ Tony Pulis. I blame the rum.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Feb 23, 2015 16:22:23 GMT
Any appeal is entirely pathetic. Yes it was a bad tackle but there's simply no arguing against the sending off for sprinting up to the player and shoving him over. It's a clear red card offence and it was dealt with correctly. The tackle that provoked him into that action is an entirely separate matter and, although I understand the player's (and his manager's) anger at that, it cannot excuse what the player did.
Edit: Andy Wilkinson.............CLASS!
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Post by britsabroad on Feb 23, 2015 16:39:31 GMT
The push is a red all day and shouldnt be rescinded, but it shows yet again what a mockery the FA Respect campaign is. That tackle was about as bad as you will see at the top level.
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 23, 2015 16:56:31 GMT
Many years ago John McEnroe frequently protested about poor line calls etc. At the time he was criticised, and often appeared to have gone over the top. However, he was largely responsible for significant improvements in officiating at tennis matches so that the sport has almost entirely removed errors. Mourinho's current campaign reminds me of that and he needs sensible support from other managers all saying that the current level of errors from officials is not acceptable in the 21st century. I know that football is more complicated than tennis, but I am finding it increasingly difficult to watch football when I know that justice is very likely not to be done. The Chelsea game was not the only one at the weekend where the result was directly affected by refereeing mistakes. And it is the same EVERY weekend. Totally agree with this and it is incredible with all the money in the game that there is absolutely no progress on this matter. Nobody is taking this forward. Tha managers and clubs are just looking after their own. Look at rugby, they have got it all sussed on a much lower budget.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 17:00:33 GMT
Retaliation. Surely they can't get this rescinded!
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Feb 23, 2015 17:06:14 GMT
According to Howard Webb a push below neck height is yellow and above neck height is a red. True - but Webb has never managed to find an extract from the laws of the game which backs up this (common sense) opinion. Pity for Joey Barton that Webb was not refereeing the Hull QPR game this weekend! There is nothing in the laws of the game about this either way. Law 12 only refers to "violent conduct" and the question for the referee at the time and and the appeal panel now is whether it was violent conduct. The "above neck/below neck" distinction referred to is indeed in the official guidance as one factor among several to be taken into account when deciding if it's unsporting behaviour (yellow) or violent conduct (red). It doesn't mean that above the neck is always red, and below is always yellow, although I think it's much more rare for above to be only yellow, than for below to be red ( if you are still with me ! ) For below I think the key decision is how violent it is - when does a "push" or "shove" become a punch or violent assault ? which to some extent is inevitably subjective. With regard to the foul, because the referee saw it (he gave a foul) and took no further action, it cannot come before an FA panel.
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Post by tuum on Feb 23, 2015 18:27:48 GMT
The tackle from Barnes was atrocious, a leg breaker and we would have gone into meltdown if it was on Bojan or one of our talented young players. Matic's shove on Barnes was a direct reaction to what was a very dangerous and poorly timed challenge. Should his red be rescinded? Probably not, but at the same time I see why Chelsea are annoyed. I have watched it several times and I do not see anything malicious in that tackle. To be honest I am really not sure what he has done wrong other than to catch Magic squarely on the shin. An earlier poster summed it up much more lucidly. I agree with him.
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Post by pedro23 on Feb 23, 2015 18:41:28 GMT
My gripe is with the totally incompetent Twatkinson.He had a clear view of all the contentious decisions, no excuses. I don't think he is corrupt, just a useless Referee. Putting aside any Club bias in this case, we only have to look at his performance at Newcastle last season, amongst others. He should be black balled out of the job, useless fecker
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 23, 2015 22:17:19 GMT
Good stuff from Dyche -wish we'd have done something similar at the height of the (eerily similar) Shawcross witchhunt.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 23, 2015 22:28:51 GMT
I still don't think the Barnes "tackle" (it's not a tackle, the tackle has already been won by Barnes) is a red. Its just a very unfortunate incident that I don't think he can avoid.
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Post by hartzchoco on Feb 23, 2015 22:30:03 GMT
They'll win the appeal, I'm sure.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 22:30:19 GMT
Mourinho has stitched everyone up here with the oldest trick in the book and he'll be thanking Ashley Barnes and Matic in his sleep.
While everyone around them is re-opening up refereeing debates and rough tackle debates, and whilst Dyche is unloading on camera he gets away with his side being unable to beat Burnley at home without one single question about the performance or his performance.
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Post by Davef on Feb 23, 2015 22:34:28 GMT
They'll win the appeal, I'm sure. Not an earthly.
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Post by Olgrligm on Feb 23, 2015 22:34:55 GMT
Burnley fans feel a bit victimised and I can see their point. It looked horrific, but I'm not at all convinced there was any intent at all. But, much the same with the Shawcross one, it all gets lost once the incident involves a big London club with a nutty manager and the feeding frenzy begins It's pathetic really, just like Wenger thinking that we'd be his willing punchbags when when we played them in 2008. It's shocking that he'll get away with it and you have to think that if the FA want to nip this in the bud, they need to seriously come down hard on Chelsea. The Matic tackle on Barnes (because that's what it was) was a bit of a nothing that's probably a solid yellow card these days. Barnes gets the ball first and catches Matic in an awkward position with no intent or malice whatsoever. The common sense solution was, of course, for both players to just shake hands and get on with the game, instead of Matic losing it and Mourinho going on the offensive. Football's going to a really dark place. Why is it the three biggest London clubs who are the worst for this sort of thing?
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Post by Gifton on Feb 23, 2015 22:38:51 GMT
Not sure if it is frivolous tbh, he has pushed him in the chest. Albeit quite hard, there was no danger of the player being injured. I hate Chelsea but for once I honestly think they are correct on this one. Don't think the FA will have the balls to refuse this one, otherwise they will have to come out in condemnation of the Burnley player. For me a red card for Burnley player with a 3 match ban minimum and a yellow for Matic with a message of do that again and you will get a ban. Mourinho has been very clever in the way he has put his point across and tied Goals on Sunday into knots, although at no point does he accept that his team ever do anything wrong. A push in the chest is a red card offence. You could argue that it is harsh but that is the rule as it stands. You can't plead a bad tackle in mitigation either. There is a case for his tackler getting a red card but no case to downgrade Matic's red card under the rules as they stand. Tell that to Danny Rose!
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 23, 2015 22:42:51 GMT
Great and honest interview by Dyche. A proper football man. It real winds me up when people keep referring to Joses whining as genius not what I'd call it. I think cheating and gamesmanships nearer the mark.
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 23, 2015 22:57:37 GMT
I still don't think the Barnes "tackle" (it's not a tackle, the tackle has already been won by Barnes) is a red. Its just a very unfortunate incident that I don't think he can avoid. I totally agree. This was no worse than Shawcross' tackle on Ramsey, and the player was not injured at all. The arrogance of Chelsea in appealing against this is beggars belief
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Post by hartzchoco on Feb 23, 2015 23:23:06 GMT
They'll win the appeal, I'm sure. Not an earthly. I'm definitely not rooting for them to win, that's for damn sure. I hope to Christ your right. Mine is a somewhat cynical view of chelski.
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Post by tuum on Feb 24, 2015 1:18:32 GMT
The tackle from Barnes was atrocious, a leg breaker and we would have gone into meltdown if it was on Bojan or one of our talented young players. Matic's shove on Barnes was a direct reaction to what was a very dangerous and poorly timed challenge. Should his red be rescinded? Probably not, but at the same time I see why Chelsea are annoyed. I have watched it several times and I do not see anything malicious in that tackle. To be honest I am really not sure what he has done wrong other than to catch Magic squarely on the shin. Cheeky Matt 71 summed it up much more lucidly. I agree with him. Also didn't Dermot Gallagher say that he thought it was reckless and therefore only a yellow....even then,I suspect he only deemed it to be reckless because there was contact. One journo on Sky said he thought Magic was perfectly entitled to react in the way that he did. I am not so sure.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Feb 24, 2015 5:23:47 GMT
Just goes to show how much play-acting these so called TOP footballers do..... Put a heavy challenge in and they're so incensed they spring back to their feet immediately to show their frustration......put in a pussy challenge and they're rolling around on the fuckin deck half dead for the next 5/10 minutes!!!
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Post by markytcd on Feb 24, 2015 5:36:59 GMT
It wasn't just a shove in the chest though! Matic kicked out as well! Red card every day of the week.
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Feb 24, 2015 10:44:16 GMT
As a couple have stated above, the tackle was just that, a tackle. It wasn't reckless, he wasn't out of control. He gets that ball and catches Matic on the follow through.
Matic has a little roll round to show how injured he is, before jumping to his feet and chasing after Barnes. Whether you agree with the rule or not, Matic's push is a red card.
When you compare Mourinho's comments over the past few days to Dyche's rebuttal yesterday, I think its clear who came out of this shambolic situation looking the best. Burnley should now just offer no further official comment and let Chelsea carry on making themselves look like fools. As we all know, claims from a 'big' club that they don't get decisions are nothing short of ludicrous!
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