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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 1, 2015 17:07:44 GMT
OK ukcstokie I think I see where you are coming from but can you just answer the original question, WHAT DOES HE OFFER US IN YOUR OPINION? We all have our own different views, your aware of mine, please enlighten me. He setup a goal against Rochdale. He was key to setting up the goal against Leicester. To claim " hard to recall when he last put in a proper "shift" against a premiership team" - is quite frankly ludicrous - unless you started supporting Stoke last night. His body language actually demonstrates that he does give a shit. If he didn't he wouldn't be quite so animated would he? He's not hit the performances of the 2nd half of last season yet (but then you won't remember those).
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Post by upthefud on Feb 1, 2015 17:57:45 GMT
It's absolutely idiotic that you think because others have a different opinion to you, it's merely because we don't like him. I don't know the bloke, he could give up his Tuesday afternoons to help injured animals for all we know. I judge his performances on the pitch which, sorry to say, simply aren't good enough. How many PL goals and assists this season? If he's not scoring or assisting and he's moping around, please feel free to enlighten me as to what he brings... I can see when he plays well. I can see when he's been rubbish. Given that you stated it was a 7 yard pass for SJW's goal against Rochdale the other evening - it demonstrates that even when he does something good you can't recognise it because of your view of him. It was a simple 11 yard pass! You made out it was 18 yards which is the same exaggeration! A right winger is there to create and score. Given Arnie's assist and goals stats I ask again. What's he bring to the team? EDIT: I've just seen your above post. Ok so we don't remember the last three months of last season (which I have him great credit for.) have you forgotten his form for the first 7 months of last season?
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 1, 2015 18:00:59 GMT
Since Arnie has been back in the team we have been on our most consistent run of results.
People can make up as much shit as they want about our players but the facts are he has improved our team since he has been here. He signed for a couple of million yet people are expecting Messiesque performances.
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Post by upthefud on Feb 1, 2015 18:03:44 GMT
Since Arnie has been back in the team we have been on our most consistent run of results. People can make up as much shit as they want about our players but the facts are he has improved our team since he has been here. He signed for a couple of million yet people are expecting Messiesque performances. No we don't, we don't expect Messiesque performances from £500k Walters. If as a right winger he isn't scoring or assisting then what is he bringing? I'd have Diouf in ahead of him and keep Walters up top
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 1, 2015 18:07:57 GMT
Since Arnie has been back in the team we have been on our most consistent run of results. People can make up as much shit as they want about our players but the facts are he has improved our team since he has been here. He signed for a couple of million yet people are expecting Messiesque performances. No we don't, we don't expect Messiesque performances from £500k Walters. If as a right winger he isn't scoring or assisting then what is he bringing? I'd have Diouf in ahead of him and keep Walters up top That's fair enough. The FACTS are that since he has been here the team has played better football, scored more goals, got more points and finished higher in the league. It's not anywhere near all down to him but he has played his part. He can improve no doubt, but so can the rest of them. Walters scored 3 goals yesterday which was great (I actually predicted he'd score two) but spent most of the game mis-controlling the ball.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Feb 1, 2015 18:11:25 GMT
I personally believe if he was British, with a boring name like "john brown" maybe a basic hairstyle and none of his fancy flicks then a lot more people would be against him.
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 1, 2015 18:53:23 GMT
I can see when he plays well. I can see when he's been rubbish. Given that you stated it was a 7 yard pass for SJW's goal against Rochdale the other evening - it demonstrates that even when he does something good you can't recognise it because of your view of him. It was a simple 11 yard pass! You made out it was 18 yards which is the same exaggeration! A right winger is there to create and score. Given Arnie's assist and goals stats I ask again. What's he bring to the team? EDIT: I've just seen your above post. Ok so we don't remember the last three months of last season (which I have him great credit for.) have you forgotten his form for the first 7 months of last season? Here you go. I was wrong. It wasn't any 18 yard pass:
So according to the standard pitch dimensions (http://www.openplay.co.uk/blog/premiership-football-pitch-sizes-2014-to-2015/):
From the edge of the box to the left hand side of the goal is 18 yards.
Walters took the pass pretty much level with the far post, i.e. another 8 yards on.
So that's a 26 yard pass isn't it?
One thing for certain, it definitely isn't a 7 yard pass.
This just demonstrates how you are unable to see anything positive about Arnie. But don't let the facts get in the way of your views eh.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Feb 1, 2015 19:04:14 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Feb 1, 2015 19:14:11 GMT
It was a simple 11 yard pass! You made out it was 18 yards which is the same exaggeration! A right winger is there to create and score. Given Arnie's assist and goals stats I ask again. What's he bring to the team? EDIT: I've just seen your above post. Ok so we don't remember the last three months of last season (which I have him great credit for.) have you forgotten his form for the first 7 months of last season? Here you go. I was wrong. It wasn't any 18 yard pass:
So according to the standard pitch dimensions (http://www.openplay.co.uk/blog/premiership-football-pitch-sizes-2014-to-2015/):
From the edge of the box to the left hand side of the goal is 18 yards.
Walters took the pass pretty much level with the far post, i.e. another 8 yards on.
So that's a 26 yard pass isn't it?
One thing for certain, it definitely isn't a 7 yard pass.
This just demonstrates how you are unable to see anything positive about Arnie. But don't let the facts get in the way of your views eh.
Ok good argument, I can't really disagree with that however if you want to take great offence over a few yards then be my guest. That image shows he's under no great pressure and has a free target to pick out. Something a league 2 winger should be capable of. So onto my point, Arnie's assists and goals tally? Would you say he was contributing to the team in the same way that the rest of our attacking players are?
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 1, 2015 19:20:41 GMT
Here you go. I was wrong. It wasn't any 18 yard pass:
So according to the standard pitch dimensions (http://www.openplay.co.uk/blog/premiership-football-pitch-sizes-2014-to-2015/):
From the edge of the box to the left hand side of the goal is 18 yards.
Walters took the pass pretty much level with the far post, i.e. another 8 yards on.
So that's a 26 yard pass isn't it?
One thing for certain, it definitely isn't a 7 yard pass.
This just demonstrates how you are unable to see anything positive about Arnie. But don't let the facts get in the way of your views eh.
Ok good argument, I can't really disagree with that however if you want to take great offence over a few yards then be my guest. That image shows he's under no great pressure and has a free target to pick out. Something a league 2 winger should be capable of. So onto my point, Arnie's assists and goals tally? Would you say he was contributing to the team in the same way that the rest of our attacking players are? You've missed my point: Some posters just can't see what Arnie does. A 26 yard pass for a goal is turned into an easy 7 yard pass. When your view of him is so skewed then how can you hope to be taken seriously?
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Post by MuddyWoody on Feb 1, 2015 19:22:00 GMT
This is exactly my impression of the man. How some read his body language to be that of someone who doesn't care is beyond me. If Arnie has a problem it's that he gets too frustrated with himself when he makes a mistake. Granted his shooting is shite and is the one area that he still needs to improve, however his defensive work rate his improved enormously since he arrived. So are you saying that Arnie cares more and tries harder than say Walters or Whelan, based on body language? Absolutely not. I'm just saying that his body language reflects his frustration with himself when he gets things wrong, rather than apathy towards his or the team's performance.
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Post by upthefud on Feb 1, 2015 19:24:48 GMT
Ok good argument, I can't really disagree with that however if you want to take great offence over a few yards then be my guest. That image shows he's under no great pressure and has a free target to pick out. Something a league 2 winger should be capable of. So onto my point, Arnie's assists and goals tally? Would you say he was contributing to the team in the same way that the rest of our attacking players are? You've missed my point: Some posters just can't see what Arnie does. A 26 yard pass for a goal is turned into an easy 7 yard pass. When your view of him is so skewed then how can you hope to be taken seriously? I gave him plenty of credit at the end of last season, and I have him even more stick last season than I have this before March. No goals, one assist. Some people just refuse to see that he's not contributing
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Post by stokemanusa on Feb 1, 2015 19:34:42 GMT
His decision making going forward lets himself down. He has the ability to get it in with a cross or to make creative inroads it's just he doesn't go at it when he needs too he's always looking for the next move instead of taking the right one or going at his man first time. He lost the ball to a goal kick several times instead of pressuring his man in the box. Frustrating player but has talent and vision. I wish he was better at squaring up and going in he needs to be more aggressive... and less of a trickster.
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Post by numpty40 on Feb 1, 2015 19:42:42 GMT
One of his poorer games yesterday yet we've only got 3 pages. Confused!
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Post by riponstokie on Feb 1, 2015 20:01:26 GMT
No we don't, we don't expect Messiesque performances from £500k Walters. If as a right winger he isn't scoring or assisting then what is he bringing? I'd have Diouf in ahead of him and keep Walters up top That's fair enough. The FACTS are that since he has been here the team has played better football, scored more goals, got more points and finished higher in the league. It's not anywhere near all down to him but he has played his part. He can improve no doubt, but so can the rest of them. Walters scored 3 goals yesterday which was great (I actually predicted he'd score two) but spent most of the game mis-controlling the ball. Mis - controlling the ball?!Dear me Pugs, you can never just give the guy his due can you? When it comes to mis - controlling the ball, Arnie is up there with the best/worst and as for smashing it way over the bar well he's a major contributor....................................unfortunately.
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 1, 2015 21:40:53 GMT
That's fair enough. The FACTS are that since he has been here the team has played better football, scored more goals, got more points and finished higher in the league. It's not anywhere near all down to him but he has played his part. He can improve no doubt, but so can the rest of them. Walters scored 3 goals yesterday which was great (I actually predicted he'd score two) but spent most of the game mis-controlling the ball. Mis - controlling the ball?!Dear me Pugs, you can never just give the guy his due can you? When it comes to mis - controlling the ball, Arnie is up there with the best/worst and as for smashing it way over the bar well he's a major contributor....................................unfortunately. Oh dear, another one who can't stand the FACT that we are better now we have the likes of Arnautovic playing for us PLUS a better manager who is getting more out of players like Jon Walters and Glenn Whelan. The FACTS back up what I am saying. Oh, and I gave Walters plenty of praise on the 200 up thread. Carry on making shit up fella.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 1, 2015 21:48:24 GMT
That's fair enough. The FACTS are that since he has been here the team has played better football, scored more goals, got more points and finished higher in the league. It's not anywhere near all down to him but he has played his part. He can improve no doubt, but so can the rest of them. Walters scored 3 goals yesterday which was great (I actually predicted he'd score two) but spent most of the game mis-controlling the ball. Mis - controlling the ball?!Dear me Pugs, you can never just give the guy his due can you? When it comes to mis - controlling the ball, Arnie is up there with the best/worst and as for smashing it way over the bar well he's a major contributor....................................unfortunately. To be fair to pugs, Walters didn't start the game well and he seemed to be struggling with basic control and hold up play. He got the 1st goal, confidence grew and thereafter he was excellent.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 21:58:05 GMT
My driving instructor used to put a herbal tablet in your mouth before you started driving to relax you, (god bless Cyril) this is what this young man needs, always tight in his shoulders and inwardly upset when things don't go well.
What does he bring , Brilliant dead ball delivery, hard work, always tries hard and always tries to entertain, which imo is important especially at Stoke as we always seem to need a moment of flair to get the crowd singing just lately which in turn raises our players in a totally symbiotic manner.
Most important he brings the promise of more and better to come.
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Post by 2004 on Feb 2, 2015 0:10:43 GMT
Here we go. The big myth that Arnie doesn't work hard. Some people think just because he sulks a bit that he is lazy. He is far better than Moses at tracking back.
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Post by upthefud on Feb 2, 2015 0:17:37 GMT
Here we go. The big myth that Arnie doesn't work hard. Some people think just because he sulks a bit that he is lazy. He is far better than Moses at tracking back. Shall we compare the league goals and assists of Moses and Arnie?
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Post by metalhead on Feb 2, 2015 0:22:45 GMT
Thought Arnie did ok.
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Post by 2004 on Feb 2, 2015 0:30:30 GMT
Here we go. The big myth that Arnie doesn't work hard. Some people think just because he sulks a bit that he is lazy. He is far better than Moses at tracking back. Shall we compare the league goals and assists of Moses and Arnie? Read what I actually said
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Post by upthefud on Feb 2, 2015 0:40:47 GMT
Shall we compare the league goals and assists of Moses and Arnie? Read what I actually said I read it mate, tracking back is all well and good but you can forgive Moses because he brings so much more to us. Also Arnie is far more susceptible to giving the ball away in silly areas. I'll defend Moses for his tracking all day but I'll never defend his diving. Arnie doesn't bring us anywhere near enough and is our weakest link
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Post by bmstoke on Feb 2, 2015 1:07:12 GMT
Since Arnie has been back in the team we have been on our most consistent run of results. People can make up as much shit as they want about our players but the facts are he has improved our team since he has been here. He signed for a couple of million yet people are expecting Messiesque performances. No we don't, we don't expect Messiesque performances from £500k Walters. If as a right winger he isn't scoring or assisting then what is he bringing? I'd have Diouf in ahead of him and keep Walters up top £500K Walters? One of the rimmers in chief making shit up again. They have problems with Arnie because of who signed him, they'd rather have Shotton or Whitehead on the wing.
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Post by upthefud on Feb 2, 2015 1:28:44 GMT
No we don't, we don't expect Messiesque performances from £500k Walters. If as a right winger he isn't scoring or assisting then what is he bringing? I'd have Diouf in ahead of him and keep Walters up top £500K Walters? One of the rimmers in chief making shit up again. They have problems with Arnie because of who signed him, they'd rather have Shotton or Whitehead on the wing. I like Hughes? I like Moses? I like Bojan? I like Muni? I like Ireland? I like Diouf? I like Wolly? Congratulations on winning stupidest post of the day at roughly 1am
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Post by bmstoke on Feb 2, 2015 1:35:39 GMT
So how much did SJW cost?
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Post by upthefud on Feb 2, 2015 1:47:12 GMT
So how much did SJW cost? £500k less than Arnie
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Post by bmstoke on Feb 2, 2015 1:54:39 GMT
So how much did SJW cost? £500k less than Arnie I think you need a word with your old maths teacher, he wasn't very good.
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Post by upthefud on Feb 2, 2015 1:57:11 GMT
I think you need a word with your old maths teacher, he wasn't very good. £2m Walters £2.5m Arnie. If I'm wrong please correct me
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Post by bmstoke on Feb 2, 2015 2:03:00 GMT
I think you need a word with your old maths teacher, he wasn't very good. £2m Walters £2.5m Arnie. If I'm wrong please correct me 2.75m Walters 2m Arnie
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