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Post by foster on Sept 30, 2014 9:31:04 GMT
So N'Zonzi didn't pass forward a couple of times when he could of.
Not like he fucking scored an own goal, gave away a penalty or was culpable for them scoring is it?
I'd rather play it safe and keep possession (when we're leading) than have someone giving away numerous freekicks or losing the ball.
Incredible what some people drag up to moan about.
Stinks of desperation.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 9:32:23 GMT
Agreed. I sometimes wonder if some Stoke fans want to watch good football,they shit themselves everytime we keep the ball for more than 3 or 4 passes and start moaning like fuck when we keep the ball shouting "forwards" "get it up". Then low and behold when we kick the ball up front and hand the ball back to the opposition they moan like fuck again. We have a good quota of them where I sit and it winds me up to fuck. I have no problem with us playing possession football, but it's impossible not to get frustrated when we have a good move opening up only for N'zonzi to turn back for fear of losing possession then 4 passes later it's at either Ryan or Wilson's feet and they lump it 40 yards upto crouch who wins a header but has no-one near him and we lose possession. I would much rather see N'zonzi go for the killer pass and fail than retain the ball and the above scenario to keep happening. In the final 10 minutes fine, it's whats required to close the game out but he does it most of the game. I've just watched the full 90 minutes again and trust me when I say,it's a complete myth that Nzonzi went backwards and slowed our play down at every attempt last night.
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N'zonzi
Sept 30, 2014 9:36:50 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 30, 2014 9:36:50 GMT
Keeping the ball in the back 5 is not good football!!! It's mind numbing! The second half was much better football because it was a lot more probing That would probably be because Newcastle had to be more open as they were one down It's all relitive Or we didn't impose ourselves on the game against a team struggling for confidence? I was very concerned first half because we offered no threat, never closed the ball down and we were still cut open on numerous occasions. Without Shawcross we'd have gone in behind. Their shot that Bego saved came from the fact that N'Zonzi couldn't be arsed to close down their short corner. Begovic went absolutely mental at him and rightly so For me, everything that was missing from our performance was N'Zonzi's role. I'd drop Adam back with Whelan for Sunderland and start with Ireland next week
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N'zonzi
Sept 30, 2014 9:45:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 9:45:58 GMT
That would probably be because Newcastle had to be more open as they were one down It's all relitive Or we didn't impose ourselves on the game against a team struggling for confidence? I was very concerned first half because we offered no threat, never closed the ball down and we were still cut open on numerous occasions. Without Shawcross we'd have gone in behind. Their shot that Bego saved came from the fact that N'Zonzi couldn't be arsed to close down their short corner. Begovic went absolutely mental at him and rightly so For me, everything that was missing from our performance was N'Zonzi's role. I'd drop Adam back with Whelan for Sunderland and start with Ireland next week I like Charlie Adam,but do you seriously think he will do the dirty work that you say Nzonzi didn't do tonight? Nzonzi wasn't at his best last night but he was nowhere near as bad as some on here are making out.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Sept 30, 2014 9:48:55 GMT
Or we didn't impose ourselves on the game against a team struggling for confidence? I was very concerned first half because we offered no threat, never closed the ball down and we were still cut open on numerous occasions. Without Shawcross we'd have gone in behind. Their shot that Bego saved came from the fact that N'Zonzi couldn't be arsed to close down their short corner. Begovic went absolutely mental at him and rightly so For me, everything that was missing from our performance was N'Zonzi's role. I'd drop Adam back with Whelan for Sunderland and start with Ireland next week I like Charlie Adam,but do you seriously think he will do the dirty work that you say Nzonzi didn't do tonight? Nzonzi wasn't at his best last night but he was nowhere near as bad as some on here are making out. Spot on.
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Post by foster on Sept 30, 2014 9:48:58 GMT
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Post by Gods on Sept 30, 2014 9:53:07 GMT
Interesting stuff, I'd like to know what the typical proportion of forward to backward passes is for a Defensive Midfield player to put some perspective around that? No agenda here. I LOVE the Zonz!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 10:00:21 GMT
Or we didn't impose ourselves on the game against a team struggling for confidence? I was very concerned first half because we offered no threat, never closed the ball down and we were still cut open on numerous occasions. Without Shawcross we'd have gone in behind. Their shot that Bego saved came from the fact that N'Zonzi couldn't be arsed to close down their short corner. Begovic went absolutely mental at him and rightly so For me, everything that was missing from our performance was N'Zonzi's role. I'd drop Adam back with Whelan for Sunderland and start with Ireland next week I like Charlie Adam,but do you seriously think he will do the dirty work that you say Nzonzi didn't do tonight? Nzonzi wasn't at his best last night but he was nowhere near as bad as some on here are making out. Adamss fuckin class mate yeah,better player than nzonzi imo and wud offer more chanel balls etc goin forwad
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N'zonzi
Sept 30, 2014 10:01:50 GMT
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Post by Kjones9 on Sept 30, 2014 10:01:50 GMT
So N'Zonzi didn't pass forward a couple of times when he could of. Not like he fucking scored an own goal, gave away a penalty or was culpable for them scoring is it? I'd rather play it safe and keep possession (when we're leading) than have someone giving away numerous freekicks or losing the ball. Incredible what some people drag up to moan about. Stinks of desperation. I think a lot of fans had already set up to moan about us losing again so let them get it off thier chests.
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Post by Plave on Sept 30, 2014 10:03:37 GMT
I tried reading all this thread but didn't make it past page two as I'm worried the stupid might be contagious.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 10:04:57 GMT
So N'Zonzi didn't pass forward a couple of times when he could of. Not like he fucking scored an own goal, gave away a penalty or was culpable for them scoring is it? I'd rather play it safe and keep possession (when we're leading) than have someone giving away numerous freekicks or losing the ball. Incredible what some people drag up to moan about. Stinks of desperation. I think a lot of fans had already set up to moan about us losing again so let them get it off thier chests. nob heads mate. we were allways goin come good at home eventuly
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N'zonzi
Sept 30, 2014 10:06:39 GMT
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Post by Kjones9 on Sept 30, 2014 10:06:39 GMT
That would probably be because Newcastle had to be more open as they were one down It's all relitive Without Shawcross we'd have gone in behind. Their shot that Bego saved came from the fact that N'Zonzi couldn't be arsed to close down their short corner. Begovic went absolutely mental at him and rightly so That's selective viewing at its very, very finest. Did you see Shawcross get turned for that chance Collbeck had in the second half?
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Post by foster on Sept 30, 2014 10:08:14 GMT
Interesting stuff, I'd like to know what the typical proportion of forward to backward passes is for a Defensive Midfield player to put some perspective around that? No agenda here. I LOVE the Zonz! Not sure but Adam and Whelan had higher forward pass %s than N'Zonzi, but also had worse completion stats. Do we therefore need all 3 to be supplying the forward passes? It seems that's what Whelan and Adam are there to do. N'Zonzi in the... Defensive third: 6 out of 7 backward, 1 forward Middle third: 7 out of 21 backward, 6 forward Attacking third: 2 out of 16 backward, 12 forward
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Post by superscfc on Sept 30, 2014 10:08:55 GMT
I was absolutely fuming last night when people were hurling abuse and jeering when he passed forward, it was bloody ridiculous, one of our best performers last night behind Moses and Ryan.
So what if he didn't play Diouf in at one point or Crouch at another, he never put is in any danger at any stage last night and that's the important part, N'Zonzi is the best player on the ball we have and people are acting like he's a liability with a football at his feet. Wouldn't be surprised if he does want to leave if this continues this season and I wouldn't blame the lad.
Getting booed by your own fans when you've done nothing wrong is absolutely ridicilous.
Oh Marc Wilson played it back to Bego a few times when he could play it forward, why isn't he singled out? Shawcross lost the ball once why isn't he singled out? N'Zonzi did nothing wrong last night
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Post by salopstick on Sept 30, 2014 10:10:50 GMT
The treatment dished out to N'zonzi tonight by his own supporters was wrong, very harsh, embarrassing and quite frankly displayed a complete lack of knowledge about the game they were watching. He made the wrong decision ONCE in the 1st half when he should have played in Diouf but turned back and from that moment he became the boo boy. It clearly affected him and it is just sad that one of our better players is subjected to such mindless treatment. For anyone that didn't notice, 2 midfield players today did the work for 3 and I'm not knocking a clearly injured Adam in saying that. Idiots. Total, complete and utter idiots. the problem is there at least one of these instances in every game hes played for stoke, it is expected. to many times we miss out on attacks becuase he slows the play up or passes backwards. worth the boos NO but how else are th efans supposed to show its not on no-one doubts he isnt a good player but this is a really bad part of his game
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Post by foster on Sept 30, 2014 10:12:00 GMT
I was absolutely fuming last night when people were hurling abuse and jeering when he passed forward, it was bloody ridiculous, one of our best performers last night behind Moses and Ryan. So what if he didn't play Diouf in at one point or Crouch at another, he never put is in any danger at any stage last season and that's the important part, N'Zonzi is the best player on the ball we have and people are acting like he's a liability with a football at his feet. Wouldn't be surprised if he does want to leave if this continues this season and I wouldn't blame the lad. Getting booed by your own fans when you've done nothing wrong is absolutely ridicilous. Oh Marc Wilson played it back to Bego a few times when he could play it forward, why isn't he singled out? Shawcross lost the ball once why isn't he singled out? N'Zonzi did nothing wrong last night Yeah, Arnie made a few errors last night too, but apparently he's nearly back to his best. It's all about the spin. Had N'Zonzi lost possession like Arnie did he's be castrated on here.
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Post by foster on Sept 30, 2014 10:13:41 GMT
The treatment dished out to N'zonzi tonight by his own supporters was wrong, very harsh, embarrassing and quite frankly displayed a complete lack of knowledge about the game they were watching. He made the wrong decision ONCE in the 1st half when he should have played in Diouf but turned back and from that moment he became the boo boy. It clearly affected him and it is just sad that one of our better players is subjected to such mindless treatment. For anyone that didn't notice, 2 midfield players today did the work for 3 and I'm not knocking a clearly injured Adam in saying that. Idiots. Total, complete and utter idiots. the problem is there at least one of these instances in every game hes played for stoke, it is expected. to many times we miss out on attacks becuase he slows the play up or passes backwards. worth the boos NO but how else are th efans supposed to show its not on no-one doubts he isnt a good player but this is a really bad part of his game I wonder if he's perhaps instructed to keep possession, avoid risks and generally clear up the midfield, whilst leaving the forward thinking to Adam and Whelan. Just a thought.
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Post by superscfc on Sept 30, 2014 10:19:22 GMT
I was absolutely fuming last night when people were hurling abuse and jeering when he passed forward, it was bloody ridiculous, one of our best performers last night behind Moses and Ryan. So what if he didn't play Diouf in at one point or Crouch at another, he never put is in any danger at any stage last season and that's the important part, N'Zonzi is the best player on the ball we have and people are acting like he's a liability with a football at his feet. Wouldn't be surprised if he does want to leave if this continues this season and I wouldn't blame the lad. Getting booed by your own fans when you've done nothing wrong is absolutely ridicilous. Oh Marc Wilson played it back to Bego a few times when he could play it forward, why isn't he singled out? Shawcross lost the ball once why isn't he singled out? N'Zonzi did nothing wrong last night Yeah, Arnie made a few errors last night too, but apparently he's nearly back to his best. It's all about the spin. Had N'Zonzi lost possession like Arnie did he's be castrated on here. Completely agree, I don't get the N'Zonzi abuse at all
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Post by roylandstoke on Sept 30, 2014 10:20:08 GMT
Zonz is the best midfielder at the club by a country mile.
Bego, Ryan, Zonz and Glen are the backbone of the team.
I liked Amdy Faye, Dean Whitehead and Ray Wallace but I don't see any of them getting a game in a side trying to play the way we are now.
Many of our fan base would rather see our left back lumping 60 yard diagonals with the midfield by passed completely.
Zonz does often take the safe option instead of risking the killer ball. All class midfielders do the same. Killer passes are rare, if they weren't there would be dozens of clear chances in every game. Losing the ball in transition play, when your own defence is not organised properly, regularly leads to conceding goals.
I was proud to be a Stokie when we gave Nello such a great reception. When some of the crowd booed Zonz for passing to a team mate I hung my head in despair.
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N'zonzi
Sept 30, 2014 10:23:39 GMT
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Post by Kjones9 on Sept 30, 2014 10:23:39 GMT
Footballers lose possession, they make wrong choices, they make stupid tackles, they have poor shots.
It's a good job these hindsight managers are here to help them out and show them the error of thier ways. Or just castigate them when it suits anyway.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 30, 2014 10:31:24 GMT
the problem is there at least one of these instances in every game hes played for stoke, it is expected. to many times we miss out on attacks becuase he slows the play up or passes backwards. worth the boos NO but how else are th efans supposed to show its not on no-one doubts he isnt a good player but this is a really bad part of his game I wonder if he's perhaps instructed to keep possession, avoid risks and generally clear up the midfield, whilst leaving the forward thinking to Adam and Whelan. Just a thought. forward thinking to whelan? now you are on a wind up nzonzi has the talent to be a box to box attacking midfielder, he is too cautious
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Post by adi on Sept 30, 2014 10:35:26 GMT
As successful passing forwards as he is backwards
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Sept 30, 2014 10:36:10 GMT
I have no problem with us playing possession football, but it's impossible not to get frustrated when we have a good move opening up only for N'zonzi to turn back for fear of losing possession then 4 passes later it's at either Ryan or Wilson's feet and they lump it 40 yards upto crouch who wins a header but has no-one near him and we lose possession. I would much rather see N'zonzi go for the killer pass and fail than retain the ball and the above scenario to keep happening. In the final 10 minutes fine, it's whats required to close the game out but he does it most of the game. I've just watched the full 90 minutes again and trust me when I say,it's a complete myth that Nzonzi went backwards and slowed our play down at every attempt last night. Sid have you got a link or feed so I can watch the game back. I was there but would like to see the whole 90 back, partic. the penalty shout in the first half. We don't have Sky or Virgin (must be the only plebs on the planet that don't!) Cheers and a great win for the lads last night. Still recovering today, lost my voice and totally wasted......excellent stuff UTP!!!!!
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N'zonzi
Sept 30, 2014 10:37:53 GMT
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Post by countofmontecristo on Sept 30, 2014 10:37:53 GMT
the problem is there at least one of these instances in every game hes played for stoke, it is expected. to many times we miss out on attacks becuase he slows the play up or passes backwards. worth the boos NO but how else are th efans supposed to show its not on no-one doubts he isnt a good player but this is a really bad part of his game I wonder if he's perhaps instructed to keep possession, avoid risks and generally clear up the midfield, whilst leaving the forward thinking to Adam and Whelan. Just a thought. I think you're probably right. He has a defensive mindset and seems to stick to it when he finds himself in promising attacking situations. You would think it could be addressed quite easily by telling him its ok to risk losing possession in order to create scoring opportunities.....but I'm sure LMH would have tried that! It is frustrating IMO because his natural caution seems to be holding him back from being even better than he already is.
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Post by stokeramblers on Sept 30, 2014 10:38:01 GMT
As successful passing forwards as he is backwards I love Stats!
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Sept 30, 2014 10:39:54 GMT
As successful passing forwards as he is backwards While that doesn't tell the whole story (as in there were times he could have been more positive) it shows his completion rate at an excellent 86%
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Post by Kjones9 on Sept 30, 2014 10:44:31 GMT
I've just watched the full 90 minutes again and trust me when I say,it's a complete myth that Nzonzi went backwards and slowed our play down at every attempt last night. Sid have you got a link or feed so I can watch the game back. I was there but would like to see the whole 90 back, partic. the penalty shout in the first half. We don't have Sky or Virgin (must be the only plebs on the planet that don't!) Cheers and a great win for the lads last night. Still recovering today, lost my voice and totally wasted......excellent stuff UTP!!!!! Penalty shout. vine.co/v/OmBZv3PtIag
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N'zonzi
Sept 30, 2014 10:45:02 GMT
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Post by Kjones9 on Sept 30, 2014 10:45:02 GMT
As successful passing forwards as he is backwards I love Stats! What do stats make?!?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 10:45:06 GMT
Superb player, it's not N'Zonzi or Whelan that are the issue at the moment it's the third central midfielder. Sidwell, Adam, Ireland all made stuttering starts, however I saw enough from Ireland to think that he'll get the nod over Adam on Saturday...
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N'zonzi
Sept 30, 2014 10:46:43 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 30, 2014 10:46:43 GMT
I like Charlie Adam,but do you seriously think he will do the dirty work that you say Nzonzi didn't do tonight? Nzonzi wasn't at his best last night but he was nowhere near as bad as some on here are making out. Spot on. No I don't, but he would add impetus to our attacks which would be a start
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