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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 13:05:28 GMT
Hate to bring you into this century but racism is also a crime. We do know what was in the offending texts, they are well documented, and Mackay has apologised. And if you were investigating someone would you just sample a few texts and if you didn't find anything think fuck it? My point was tdoesn't matter how many things you find if one is a crime do you say, ah forget it, it's only 2 times out of how many thousand. So my analogy stands. 1,racism isn't a crime in itself, if the texts are racist, sadly some people have racist views, as long as they do not use those views to discriminate against others, they are entitled to think what they wish, however wrong the rest us may feel about it. 2 the texts haven't been well documented, at most statements have been made which leads people to believe they are racist, I have not seen the actual texts have you? 3 Been in this century as long as you, one of the down sides being trial by media rather than an examination of the facts 4 knocking someone over and killing them is not even remotely similar to two individuals conducting an exchange of views even if they do turn out to be racist, so your analogy is poor. It is very easy to rush to judgement based on sketchy knowledge of the truth. Of course I accept that two out of however many is still two too many and wrong. My point is that someone must have gone to a lot of trouble looking through 80000 items in order to find something to use, which is a very vindictive act. Also it would be reasonable to expect more than two incidents of a racial nature in 80000 if that was the normal mind set of those involved. The main difference between our points of view is that you are prepared to condemn on newspaper conjecture and I prefer to await an informed investigation. 1) Mackay has himself admitted to it and apologised for sending racist messages: "Confirming he had sent “one-line texts that were, with the benefit of hindsight, very regrettable and disrespectful of other cultures” 2) the texts HAVE been documented Attachment Deletedand both Mackay and Moody have admitted to sending them. to say it's just "newspaper conjecture" is just not true whatsoever
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 22, 2014 13:12:58 GMT
Hate to bring you into this century but racism is also a crime. We do know what was in the offending texts, they are well documented, and Mackay has apologised. And if you were investigating someone would you just sample a few texts and if you didn't find anything think fuck it? My point was tdoesn't matter how many things you find if one is a crime do you say, ah forget it, it's only 2 times out of how many thousand. So my analogy stands. 1,racism isn't a crime in itself, if the texts are racist, sadly some people have racist views, as long as they do not use those views to discriminate against others, they are entitled to think what they wish, however wrong the rest us may feel about it. 2 the texts haven't been well documented, at most statements have been made which leads people to believe they are racist, I have not seen the actual texts have you? 3 Been in this century as long as you, one of the down sides being trial by media rather than an examination of the facts 4 knocking someone over and killing them is not even remotely similar to two individuals conducting an exchange of views even if they do turn out to be racist, so your analogy is poor. It is very easy to rush to judgement based on sketchy knowledge of the truth. Of course I accept that two out of however many is still two too many and wrong. My point is that someone must have gone to a lot of trouble looking through 80000 items in order to find something to use, which is a very vindictive act. Also it would be reasonable to expect more than two incidents of a racial nature in 80000 if that was the normal mind set of those involved. The main difference between our points of view is that you are prepared to condemn on newspaper conjecture and I prefer to await an informed investigation. As I understand it, Tan's lawyers examined the texts and computer disks (with the court's permission) looking for evidence of financial malpractice when the two men were employed by Cardiff. No malpractice was found but a few texts DID contain allegedly racist, homophobic and sexist comments. This was a "bonus" which Tan was not the sort of man to pass up as it gave him the chance to exact revenge on his two former employees. Incidentally, all this is spelled out on this thread and in various newspaper articles including the Daily Mail. And, as said above, certain texts have appeared in the Mail AND McKay has apologised although not very sincerely. You can await an "informed investigation" if you wish but most of the truth is already out there.
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Post by stokiejoe on Aug 22, 2014 13:13:33 GMT
1,racism isn't a crime in itself, if the texts are racist, sadly some people have racist views, as long as they do not use those views to discriminate against others, they are entitled to think what they wish, however wrong the rest us may feel about it. 2 the texts haven't been well documented, at most statements have been made which leads people to believe they are racist, I have not seen the actual texts have you? 3 Been in this century as long as you, one of the down sides being trial by media rather than an examination of the facts 4 knocking someone over and killing them is not even remotely similar to two individuals conducting an exchange of views even if they do turn out to be racist, so your analogy is poor. It is very easy to rush to judgement based on sketchy knowledge of the truth. Of course I accept that two out of however many is still two too many and wrong. My point is that someone must have gone to a lot of trouble looking through 80000 items in order to find something to use, which is a very vindictive act. Also it would be reasonable to expect more than two incidents of a racial nature in 80000 if that was the normal mind set of those involved. The main difference between our points of view is that you are prepared to condemn on newspaper conjecture and I prefer to await an informed investigation. 1) Mackay has himself admitted to it and apologised for sending racist messages: "Confirming he had sent “one-line texts that were, with the benefit of hindsight, very regrettable and disrespectful of other cultures” 2) the texts HAVE been documented View Attachmentand both Mackay and Moody have admitted to sending them. to say it's just "newspaper conjecture" is just not true whatsoever First time I have seen it, which is what I said, but now I have agree it isn't just newspaper conjecture, it is racist and they deserve what they get. I do still think my other points are valid.
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Post by thestatusquo on Aug 22, 2014 13:21:07 GMT
1,racism isn't a crime in itself, if the texts are racist, sadly some people have racist views, as long as they do not use those views to discriminate against others, they are entitled to think what they wish, however wrong the rest us may feel about it. 2 the texts haven't been well documented, at most statements have been made which leads people to believe they are racist, I have not seen the actual texts have you? 3 Been in this century as long as you, one of the down sides being trial by media rather than an examination of the facts 4 knocking someone over and killing them is not even remotely similar to two individuals conducting an exchange of views even if they do turn out to be racist, so your analogy is poor. It is very easy to rush to judgement based on sketchy knowledge of the truth. Of course I accept that two out of however many is still two too many and wrong. My point is that someone must have gone to a lot of trouble looking through 80000 items in order to find something to use, which is a very vindictive act. Also it would be reasonable to expect more than two incidents of a racial nature in 80000 if that was the normal mind set of those involved. The main difference between our points of view is that you are prepared to condemn on newspaper conjecture and I prefer to await an informed investigation. As I understand it, Tan's lawyers examined the texts and computer disks (with the court's permission) looking for evidence of financial malpractice when the two men were employed by Cardiff. No malpractice was found but a few texts DID contain allegedly racist, homophobic and sexist comments. This was a "bonus" which Tan was not the sort of man to pass up as it gave him the chance to exact revenge on his two former employees. Incidentally, all this is spelled out on this thread and in various newspaper articles including the Daily Mail. And, as said above, certain texts have appeared in the Mail AND McKay has apologised although not very sincerely. You can await an "informed investigation" if you wish but most of the truth is already out there.
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Post by salopstick on Aug 22, 2014 13:24:42 GMT
Naaah ... I reckon this has been bubbling under the surface for a few weeks... it would explain exactly why TP left in such strange circumstances. Think Tone has come out of this smelling of roses. Malky Mackay was hours away from becoming Crystal Palace boss though before this is all kicked off. How would Tony know that this was going to happen last week? There aren't many, if any, Crystal Palace fans who subscribe to your theory. Mine is that it was a clash of personalities, nothing more. What's happened in the last 24 hours in just a coincidence. If the timelines are correct what Cardiff say, the lma knew months ago then there was no way on earth tone didn't know. Not that he's implicated in anyway
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 22, 2014 13:29:41 GMT
Malky Mackay was hours away from becoming Crystal Palace boss though before this is all kicked off. How would Tony know that this was going to happen last week? There aren't many, if any, Crystal Palace fans who subscribe to your theory. Mine is that it was a clash of personalities, nothing more. What's happened in the last 24 hours in just a coincidence. If the timelines are correct what Cardiff say, the lma knew months ago then there was no way on earth tone didn't know. Not that he's implicated in anyway I'm surprised this hasn't turned into a Tone bashing thread - they usually do!
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Post by salopstick on Aug 22, 2014 13:37:17 GMT
If the timelines are correct what Cardiff say, the lma knew months ago then there was no way on earth tone didn't know. Not that he's implicated in anyway I'm surprised this hasn't turned into a Tone bashing thread - they usually do! To leave before the season so close was wrong, if it was because of moody he can go back without losing face He is 3rd favourite for the job
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Post by Titan Uranus on Aug 22, 2014 13:57:47 GMT
I'm surprised this hasn't turned into a Tone bashing thread - they usually do! To leave before the season so close was wrong, if it was because of moody he can go back without losing face He is 3rd favourite for the job Yes... Tone's played a blinder here. Top Man.
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Post by Davef on Aug 22, 2014 14:09:44 GMT
Malky Mackay was hours away from becoming Crystal Palace boss though before this is all kicked off. How would Tony know that this was going to happen last week? There aren't many, if any, Crystal Palace fans who subscribe to your theory. Mine is that it was a clash of personalities, nothing more. What's happened in the last 24 hours in just a coincidence. If the timelines are correct what Cardiff say, the lma knew months ago then there was no way on earth tone didn't know. Not that he's implicated in anyway I'm not quite sure what Mackay and Moody's antics at Cardiff have got to do with TP resigning his post at Palace though. Moody may have been the sporting director at Palace, but Mackay had absolutely nothing to do with Crystal Palace until TP packed his job in and he was approached. Would this story have even been in the public domain right now had TP not resigned? Even if TP knew about it, why on earth would he resign his post as a manager of a Premier League club over something like this?
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Post by thestatusquo on Aug 22, 2014 14:14:22 GMT
If the timelines are correct what Cardiff say, the lma knew months ago then there was no way on earth tone didn't know. Not that he's implicated in anyway I'm not quite sure what Mackay and Moody's antics at Cardiff have got to do with TP resigning his post at Palace though. Moody may have been the sporting director at Palace, but Mackay had absolutely nothing to do with Crystal Palace until TP packed his job in and he was approached. Would this story have even been in the public domain right now had TP not resigned? Even if TP knew about it, why on earth would he resign his post as a manager of a Premier League club over something like this and over somebody as obviously insignificant as Iain Moody? I'm glad somebody's mentioned it Dave, as it didn't make any sense to me either.
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Post by salopstick on Aug 22, 2014 14:16:54 GMT
If the timelines are correct what Cardiff say, the lma knew months ago then there was no way on earth tone didn't know. Not that he's implicated in anyway I'm not quite sure what Mackay and Moody's antics at Cardiff have got to do with TP resigning his post at Palace though. Moody may have been the sporting director at Palace, but Mackay had absolutely nothing to do with Crystal Palace until TP packed his job in and he was approached. Would this story have even been in the public domain right now had TP not resigned? Even if TP knew about it, why on earth would he resign his post as a manager of a Premier League club over something like this? Why did tony resign? I don't nor claimed to know. It's reported that the court order was his house and office at palace I believe. I was just stating that tony would have been aware of the jungle drums in football. The league managers association were involved in the process so people within football would know the gossip and rumours Now I know moody was not a TP appointment however it would be criminally negligent if the palace chairman and manager we're not aware of an investigation one of the executives were under
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Post by Titan Uranus on Aug 22, 2014 14:33:41 GMT
I'm not quite sure what Mackay and Moody's antics at Cardiff have got to do with TP resigning his post at Palace though. Moody may have been the sporting director at Palace, but Mackay had absolutely nothing to do with Crystal Palace until TP packed his job in and he was approached. Would this story have even been in the public domain right now had TP not resigned? Even if TP knew about it, why on earth would he resign his post as a manager of a Premier League club over something like this? Why did tony resign? I don't nor claimed to know. It's reported that the court order was his house and office at palace I believe. I was just stating that tony would have been aware of the jungle drums in football. The league managers association were involved in the process so people within football would know the gossip and rumours Correct. You can bet those jungle drums were pounding in the last few weeks. Pulis had already had his image tarnished by Moody with the teamsheet spygate affair. He sure as hell wasn't going to hang around the vicinity if he thought Moody was going to be implicated in a texting scandal. ( Who knows what skeletons Tone's got in his texting cupboard as well Moody and Tan have been daggers drawn for months and he's had this info ready to pounce at his choice. When Mackay was mentioned in frame for the Palace job, Tan must have thought all his birthdays come at once (two birds with one stone)
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Post by salopstick on Aug 22, 2014 14:38:13 GMT
I will add that Cardiff are saying that the LMA have had this dossier for at least two months and were supposed to act, they did nothing so Cardiff sent it to the FA.
MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE once the whole thing is done Tans suspicions about financial irregularity may have some merit.
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Post by salopstick on Aug 22, 2014 14:38:38 GMT
If the dossier had been sent to tone would it still be in his track suit bottoms?
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Post by stokiejoe on Aug 22, 2014 16:57:46 GMT
Interview coming up on SSN 6:00pm
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 22, 2014 17:00:47 GMT
Cardiff have called for the bloke from the LMA to resign for the 2nd time. Why don't Cardiff just fuck off? Who the fuck do they think they are? I hope they get fucked for dodgy deals of something. Just fuck off to your own bastard league!!!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 22, 2014 17:03:33 GMT
Why did tony resign? I don't nor claimed to know. It's reported that the court order was his house and office at palace I believe. I was just stating that tony would have been aware of the jungle drums in football. The league managers association were involved in the process so people within football would know the gossip and rumours Correct. You can bet those jungle drums were pounding in the last few weeks. Pulis had already had his image tarnished by Moody with the teamsheet spygate affair. He sure as hell wasn't going to hang around the vicinity if he thought Moody was going to be implicated in a texting scandal. ( Who knows what skeletons Tone's got in his texting cupboard as well Moody and Tan have been daggers drawn for months and he's had this info ready to pounce at his choice. When Mackay was mentioned in frame for the Palace job, Tan must have thought all his birthdays come at once (two birds with one stone) I wonder what "Triggy and Ziggy" think!
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Post by salopstick on Aug 22, 2014 17:09:53 GMT
Malky Mackay apology interview by numbers on SSN now.
Apology check Only a small part check Shift the blame elsewhere check Another apology check Will do equality and diversity training check Ask anyone who knows me check. I'm not a racist check Repeat all the above multiple times check
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 22, 2014 17:14:39 GMT
All this because a few mard arsed pc do gooders are playing their faces about something that has fuck all to do with them. Pathetic nosey busy bodies fuckin with a blokes life and livelihood.
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Post by Silkystoke on Aug 22, 2014 17:17:25 GMT
WHO GIVES A FUCK......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 17:23:35 GMT
WHO GIVES A FUCK......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seems like kind of a big deal to me So quite a few people I'd be willing to bet
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Post by stokiejoe on Aug 22, 2014 17:25:07 GMT
Apologised for the 3 texts he admits sending, usual about non racist as salopstick has said above, normal clichés. Unreserved and sincere apology, he says, equality and diversity training etc. He has signed a non disclosure clause which he is sticking to; been known to him for months; 100% confident FA investigation will show he has done nothing wrong in transfer dealings.
Not much else he can say in the circumstances, been caught, unreserved apology, usual those who know me statement.
Best that can be said is that at least he hasn't tried to deny it or shift the blame, did say he was under pressure but accepts that is no excuse.
now down to whether he is to be believed or not, personally having watched and listened, not sure,
would have given him more credit if he had said it voluntarily some time ago rather than waiting to be found out, given he knew it would become public at some stage.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Aug 22, 2014 17:40:46 GMT
All this because a few mard arsed pc do gooders are playing their faces about something that has fuck all to do with them. Pathetic nosey busy bodies fuckin with a blokes life and livelihood. Are you the head of the LMA?
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Post by foster on Aug 22, 2014 17:45:19 GMT
It's all a bit OTT to me.
Not as if he abused anyone, fired someone for being any of these things or discriminated against anyone because of it.
Not defending the bloke, but it would be pretty easy to end up in a similar situation as him if someone in power were gunning for you.
He's apologised, he's embarrassed and he's had a slap on the wrist. End of.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 22, 2014 17:46:46 GMT
All this because a few mard arsed pc do gooders are playing their faces about something that has fuck all to do with them. Pathetic nosey busy bodies fuckin with a blokes life and livelihood. Are you the head of the LMA? No. Nor am I sucked in by a bunch of PC pussies who have nothing better to do than make a mountain out of a mole hill. Ever likely this country is fucked. Ok what was said was not pc but it isn't the end of the bastard world is it. Anyone that says they have never laughed at a joke about blacks, gays or women are fuckin liars or just very sad!
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Post by stokeramblers on Aug 22, 2014 17:48:30 GMT
Are you the head of the LMA? No. Not am I sucked in by a bunch of PC pussies who have nothing better to do than make a mountain out of a mole hill. Ever likely this country is fucked. Ok what was said was not pc but it isn't the end of the bastard world is it. Anyone that says they have never laughed at a joke about blacks, gays or women are fuckin liars or just very sad! This is going to make you do your nut..but I don't think you're supposed to call black people 'blacks'
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 22, 2014 17:50:10 GMT
No. Not am I sucked in by a bunch of PC pussies who have nothing better to do than make a mountain out of a mole hill. Ever likely this country is fucked. Ok what was said was not pc but it isn't the end of the bastard world is it. Anyone that says they have never laughed at a joke about blacks, gays or women are fuckin liars or just very sad! This is going to make you do your nut..but I don't think you're supposed to call black people 'blacks' Says who? Fuckin pathetic.
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Post by stokeramblers on Aug 22, 2014 17:51:19 GMT
This is going to make you do your nut..but I don't think you're supposed to call black people 'blacks' Says who? Fuckin pathetic. All dem god damn whites!
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Aug 22, 2014 19:21:59 GMT
Are you the head of the LMA? No. Nor am I sucked in by a bunch of PC pussies who have nothing better to do than make a mountain out of a mole hill. Ever likely this country is fucked. Ok what was said was not pc but it isn't the end of the bastard world is it. Anyone that says they have never laughed at a joke about blacks, gays or women are fuckin liars or just very sad! It's hilarious how angry you get at these things. You're damn right I've laughed at those sorts of jokes - when they've been funny. Mackay's texts weren't even jokes, just fucking bizarre 1950's style bigotry written in earnest, not to make someone laugh. I'm not even sure who these "PC pussies" you refer to are supposed to be - the FA? news agencies? a few people on the internet? - and how their views are ruining the country. Maybe me. Well here's the opinion of this pussy - since when did you give a flying fuck about what happens to Malkay fucking Mackay's livelihood? The only reason you're outraged is because it's the sort of stone age bollocks you like to talk and you think the world is out to get you for it - hopefully you're right.
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Post by greyman on Aug 22, 2014 19:29:47 GMT
No. Nor am I sucked in by a bunch of PC pussies who have nothing better to do than make a mountain out of a mole hill. Ever likely this country is fucked. Ok what was said was not pc but it isn't the end of the bastard world is it. Anyone that says they have never laughed at a joke about blacks, gays or women are fuckin liars or just very sad! It's hilarious how angry you get at these things. You're damn right I've laughed at those sorts of jokes - when they've been funny. Mackay's texts weren't even jokes, just fucking bizarre 1950's style bigotry written in earnest, not to make someone laugh. I'm not even sure who these "PC pussies" you refer to are supposed to be - the FA? news agencies? a few people on the internet? - and how their views are ruining the country. Maybe me. Well here's the opinion of this pussy - since when did you give a flying fuck about what happens to Malkay fucking Mackay's livelihood? The only reason you're outraged is because it's the sort of stone age bollocks you like to talk and you think the world is out to get you for it - hopefully you're right. I don't think anybody can top that.
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