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Post by salopstick on Dec 17, 2013 12:43:09 GMT
We have thrown it away
Not for one minute is this Australian team better than us, our failure to get runs and our bowlers to take out the middle order is what has done. Losing three tosses didn't help mind
In this series Australia showed more will that's what grates the most.
I prefer cook to concentrate on batting but there is no long term viable alternative to cook as captain
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 13:09:49 GMT
Taken to the cleaners once, twice and thrice. Time for the cleaners to clean up this England squad,
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 17, 2013 14:49:57 GMT
to Ben Stokes. If they're using this Tymal Mills bloke in the nets to replicate the Aussie pace attack, why not get him in for a Test? It might be too soon for the bloke but if they don't trust Finn, Rankin and Tremlett then why not?
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Post by adri2008 on Dec 17, 2013 17:00:10 GMT
We've had Australia in the shit several times but just haven't managed to finish them off. A few taken catches here and there at critical points and the whole thing might have been a different story. The margin has seemed much worse as Australia have then had the luxury to allow players like Warner swinging his bat in the second innings with very little pressure on.
That said, we are looking pretty toothless on the bowling front. Swann is looking on his last legs and Anderson isn't great when there's no swing.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 17, 2013 17:08:52 GMT
I don't think Swann is on his last legs tbh. He just never does overly well against the Aussies, granted this season he's been abnormally shit but I wouldn't write him off yet.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 17, 2013 18:07:03 GMT
I wish we produced cricketers like the Aussies. I don't mean talent wise
But in the fact the rest of the world think they are cunts
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 17, 2013 19:22:03 GMT
I don't think Swann is on his last legs tbh. He just never does overly well against the Aussies, granted this season he's been abnormally shit but I wouldn't write him off yet. Not so sure if it is an issue with Aussies per SE or that they have been cute (or lucky) by having right handers in positions 3-7 and having just 1 in their tail (Johnson). Swan is nowhere near the same bowler to right handers as left handers. Even so, credit Australia for attacking him, never letting him settle. Controlled, aggressive batting has been a hallmark of the Australia batting in this series - particularly in the second innings when they have superbly rammed home the advantage our feeble 1st innings batting has given them.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 17, 2013 19:24:33 GMT
I don't think Swann is on his last legs tbh. He just never does overly well against the Aussies, granted this season he's been abnormally shit but I wouldn't write him off yet. Not so sure if it is an issue with Aussies per SE or that they have been cute (or lucky) by having right handers in positions 3-7 and having just 1 in their tail (Johnson). Swan is nowhere near the same bowler to right handers as left handers. Even so, credit Australia for attacking him, never letting him settle. Controlled, aggressive batting has been a hallmark of the Australia batting in this series - particularly in the second innings when they have superbly rammed home the advantage our feeble 1st innings batting has given them. I think I heard a stat that shows his average is way down against the Aussies than against most other nations. That could be crap admittedly but I'm semi sure I did here it. I think it is because as You say they attack him and have done since he came into our side.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 17, 2013 20:08:15 GMT
Followyoudown: Yep, I would also be pleased to have both Watson and Warner in my team. Watson has made 4 tons from 39 matches. Not nearly enough for a player of his ability I grant you, but remember he's been playing out of position for a number of years. He's more of a 6 I would have thought, but let's face it the opening positions haven't been all that stable so Warner coming along has been timely. As for getting tons without pressure, that's a big call. Any ton for an international side can't be without pressure and I would love to have an average (any average) for my country.... 35 would do me. Firstly congratulations mate, it's nice for you to get a win 2015 will be back to normal service though ! Of course I'd loved to have played test cricket but an average of 35 just isn't good enough I'm afraid, Watson lacks either the concentration or the inclination to grind out an innings, he's a showpony like K(I)P(L) but not as good. Warner in my opinion has only got cheap runs 150+ lead field back and able to come out swinging, his scores in the first innings have been pretty average when the pressure is on. Only my opinion again, but it's been two sides batting poorly in first innings difference was Haddin held your innings together let you add vital runs like Bell did in England otherwise it might have been a different story. If I was an Aussie the concern for me would be there doesn't seem to be much coming through, the likes of Quiney and Bailey both in their 30's have pretty ordinary first class records, Bailey's ODI record might be impressive but apart from India who picks first choice bowlers anymore ? After that it's guys who have failed already Hughes, Khawaja etc or the next big things Doolan and Maddison who again have pretty ordinary records. The bowlers are potentially good Cummins and the pommy Pattinson but are too injury prone as they've bowled more in test cricket than sheffield shield. Anyway roll on 2015 !
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 17, 2013 20:09:30 GMT
Not so sure if it is an issue with Aussies per SE or that they have been cute (or lucky) by having right handers in positions 3-7 and having just 1 in their tail (Johnson). Swan is nowhere near the same bowler to right handers as left handers. Even so, credit Australia for attacking him, never letting him settle. Controlled, aggressive batting has been a hallmark of the Australia batting in this series - particularly in the second innings when they have superbly rammed home the advantage our feeble 1st innings batting has given them. I think I heard a stat that shows his average is way down against the Aussies than against most other nations. That could be crap admittedly but I'm semi sure I did here it. I think it is because as You say they attack him and have done since he came into our side. And compare that to the way we have batted against Lyon; controlled, aggression it ain't. Instead we try a combination of comatose defence and frantic attack. Same thing ss I recall in the summer when Lyon finally got selected after the second test.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 17, 2013 20:12:36 GMT
I think I heard a stat that shows his average is way down against the Aussies than against most other nations. That could be crap admittedly but I'm semi sure I did here it. I think it is because as You say they attack him and have done since he came into our side. And compare that to the way we have batted against Lyon; controlled, aggression it ain't. Instead we try a combination of comatose defence and frantic attack. Same thing ss I recall in the summer when Lyon finally got selected after the second test. I just think our batsmen or the bloke's coaching them are stupid. As You say it's either one or the other, too defensive or stupid attacking, it's never the middle ground. Graham Gooch's position has got to be under review imo. And then it's a case of getting the mindsets of our batsmen right.
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 17, 2013 20:17:55 GMT
And compare that to the way we have batted against Lyon; controlled, aggression it ain't. Instead we try a combination of comatose defence and frantic attack. Same thing ss I recall in the summer when Lyon finally got selected after the second test. I just think our batsmen or the bloke's coaching them are stupid. As You say it's either one or the other, too defensive or stupid attacking, it's never the middle ground. Graham Gooch's position has got to be under review imo. And then it's a case of getting the mindsets of our batsmen right. I think it is more a case of one before the other than one or the other, meaning we start off in ultra cautious mode and when that doesn't work and we find ourselves in trouble we panic and start throwing the bat. Your call on Gooch is spot on. Of all the coaching staff he has presided over the biggest mess and it's been a mess two years in the making; since Pakistan in the UAE at the start of 2012.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 17, 2013 20:18:18 GMT
Not so sure if it is an issue with Aussies per SE or that they have been cute (or lucky) by having right handers in positions 3-7 and having just 1 in their tail (Johnson). Swan is nowhere near the same bowler to right handers as left handers. Even so, credit Australia for attacking him, never letting him settle. Controlled, aggressive batting has been a hallmark of the Australia batting in this series - particularly in the second innings when they have superbly rammed home the advantage our feeble 1st innings batting has given them. I think I heard a stat that shows his average is way down against the Aussies than against most other nations. That could be crap admittedly but I'm semi sure I did here it. I think it is because as You say they attack him and have done since he came into our side. No his average against Australia isn't great although it was heavily rumoured the pitches for 2010-11 tour were deliberately made to make sure there was nothing in it for Swann. There's also a stat that says Jimmy and Swann have bowled more overs this year than anyone else in test cricket this year, England have literally bowled them into the ground. My opinion again but England got a bit cocky and started to get a bit ahead of themselves and were planning for winning the next series rather than the current one. Dropping Compton was a mistake, Root was looking good at 6 but moving him up and down the order hasn't given him the chance to settle, picking Woakes and Kerrigan in the fifth test also looks a mistake now gave some of the aussies cheap runs instead of going back with their tails between their legs. I'd still take our team and what is coming through though over the Aussies, I'm a bit biased as a Somerset fan but the Overton twins are going to be very good players and I can see Jos Buttler in the test side sometime over the next year or so now he's moved to Lancashire.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 17, 2013 20:42:12 GMT
Does anyone else think that bothams critiscm of England and Cook in particular is agenda driven
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 21:35:05 GMT
Time to start getting rid of some of the old guard I'm afraid, come the next Ashes in 2015 we need to have established players and the home series against Sri Lanka and India in the summer, the tour of the Windies and the home series against New Zealand is the ideal time to do it. After the Ashes comes a tour of Pakistan followed by a tour of South Africa so 2015 is a massive test.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 17, 2013 21:39:13 GMT
I don't follow the county game much, Finn bresnan and onions are not the long term answer have we the bowlers especially spinners coming through
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 21:54:43 GMT
I don't follow the county game much, Finn bresnan and onions are not the long term answer have we the bowlers especially spinners coming through Abdul Rashid has been treated shabbily, he's still only about 25 and could have a future with the right coaching be good to see a leg spinner given a go (cracking bat as well). Azeem Rafiq very good finger spinner, he could be the one to watch although still very young. Sam Wood at Notts is also highly rated but again very young and inexperienced, after that you're looking at the likes of Briggs and Kerrigan who always strike me as County plodders to be fair (might be a tad harsh)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 22:31:20 GMT
I don't follow the county game much, Finn bresnan and onions are not the long term answer have we the bowlers especially spinners coming through As far as the pace bowlers are concerned Finn is still very much the long term answer .....he has all the right attributes that are needed for a top class Test Match Fast bowler , height and bounce and good pace around 90 mph .....and above all and most importantly a wicket taking ability ....he has a good record up to now , he is still only 24 ,he has a great future ahead of him as our premier fast bowler ....they just need to pick him and stick with him
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 22:34:32 GMT
I don't follow the county game much, Finn bresnan and onions are not the long term answer have we the bowlers especially spinners coming through Abdul Rashid has been treated shabbily, he's still only about 25 and could have a future with the right coaching be good to see a leg spinner given a go (cracking bat as well). Azeem Rafiq very good finger spinner, he could be the one to watch although still very young. Sam Wood at Notts is also highly rated but again very young and inexperienced, after that you're looking at the likes of Briggs and Kerrigan who always strike me as County plodders to be fair (might be a tad harsh) I agree with you on the spin bowling theme .....although Rashid has been in and out at Yorkshire , he is still only young for a spinner , he could still have a future and it would be good to see an England Leg spinner wouldn't it ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 22:36:45 GMT
Does anyone else think that bothams critiscm of England and Cook in particular is agenda driven Botham suffers from memory lapses , he's had more agendas than bottles of wine in the years since he retired and became a pundit ......almost as many as Willis
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 22:37:59 GMT
Followyoudown: Yep, I would also be pleased to have both Watson and Warner in my team. Watson has made 4 tons from 39 matches. Not nearly enough for a player of his ability I grant you, but remember he's been playing out of position for a number of years. He's more of a 6 I would have thought, but let's face it the opening positions haven't been all that stable so Warner coming along has been timely. As for getting tons without pressure, that's a big call. Any ton for an international side can't be without pressure and I would love to have an average (any average) for my country.... 35 would do me. Firstly congratulations mate, it's nice for you to get a win 2015 will be back to normal service though ! Of course I'd loved to have played test cricket but an average of 35 just isn't good enough I'm afraid, Watson lacks either the concentration or the inclination to grind out an innings, he's a showpony like K(I)P(L) but not as good. Warner in my opinion has only got cheap runs 150+ lead field back and able to come out swinging, his scores in the first innings have been pretty average when the pressure is on. Only my opinion again, but it's been two sides batting poorly in first innings difference was Haddin held your innings together let you add vital runs like Bell did in England otherwise it might have been a different story. If I was an Aussie the concern for me would be there doesn't seem to be much coming through, the likes of Quiney and Bailey both in their 30's have pretty ordinary first class records, Bailey's ODI record might be impressive but apart from India who picks first choice bowlers anymore ? After that it's guys who have failed already Hughes, Khawaja etc or the next big things Doolan and Maddison who again have pretty ordinary records. The bowlers are potentially good Cummins and the pommy Pattinson but are too injury prone as they've bowled more in test cricket than sheffield shield. Anyway roll on 2015 ! roll on indeed 2015
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 22:39:07 GMT
I wish we produced cricketers like the Aussies. I don't mean talent wise But in the fact the rest of the world think they are cunts With all good reason
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 22:41:15 GMT
I call for this thread to be deleted. I do not wish to talk about cricket, Fri 28th Feb is when we start a ODI series in West Indies, we'll talk then This has upset me, being the big girls bra that i am. I would say that cricket is arguably (i'll argue with myself over this) my favourite sport and England in cricket are to me are what Stoke City are to me in football. If that makes sense, so this hurts as much as when Stoke City struggle or have struggled in the past. Very upsetting and extremely frustrating. I agree entirely .....my pain holds no bounds ....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 22:44:03 GMT
What I'd really like to see is us put pressure on the Aussies and see how they respond - I think they'd fall apart. It pisses me off how we've let them bully us. So with a piece of blind optimsm that would make Bisphampotter blush I predict an England win tomorrow as Stokes and Prior pile on 200 runs before some late drama sees Broad come to the wicket and edge the winning 4 runs between the keeper and first slip. Australia, suitably shell shocked, capitulate in Melbourne and Sydney before Kylie Minogue comes round to my house to cook me breakfast in bed. Don't you believe it ....I never blush when it comes to England and cricket and optimism ....I've had plenty of practice over the years
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 22:47:42 GMT
Taken to the cleaners once, twice and thrice. Time for the cleaners to clean up this England squad, If you are going to bring the cleaners in though .....you have to bring in the replacements .....who are they ? And more to the point are they any better than those you have cleaned out ?
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 17, 2013 22:51:26 GMT
What I'd really like to see is us put pressure on the Aussies and see how they respond - I think they'd fall apart. It pisses me off how we've let them bully us. So with a piece of blind optimsm that would make Bisphampotter blush I predict an England win tomorrow as Stokes and Prior pile on 200 runs before some late drama sees Broad come to the wicket and edge the winning 4 runs between the keeper and first slip. Australia, suitably shell shocked, capitulate in Melbourne and Sydney before Kylie Minogue comes round to my house to cook me breakfast in bed. Don't you believe it ....I never blush when it comes to England and cricket and optimism ....I've had plenty of practice over the years You've really cheered me up on this thread; I've never met you but I have this image in my mind of Corporal Jones running round saying "Don't Panic" while the rest of are doing our best impressions of Private Frazer "We're Doomed".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 22:55:46 GMT
Don't you believe it ....I never blush when it comes to England and cricket and optimism ....I've had plenty of practice over the years You've really cheered me up on this thread; I've never met you but I have this image in my mind of Corporal Jones running round saying "Don't Panic" while the rest of are doing our best impressions of Private Frazer "We're Doomed". I assure you I am nothing like Corporal Jones ! I have been compared to Captain Mainwaring on Occassion , but I prefer to think of myself as more like Sgt. Wilson .....each version has it's merits ...
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 17, 2013 23:00:32 GMT
You've really cheered me up on this thread; I've never met you but I have this image in my mind of Corporal Jones running round saying "Don't Panic" while the rest of are doing our best impressions of Private Frazer "We're Doomed". I assure you I am nothing like Corporal Jones ! I have been compared to Captain Mainwaring on Occassion , but I prefer to think of myself as more like Sgt. Wilson .....each version has it's merits ... Then this is my gift to you;
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 23:01:33 GMT
Don't you believe it ....I never blush when it comes to England and cricket and optimism ....I've had plenty of practice over the years You've really cheered me up on this thread; I've never met you but I have this image in my mind of Corporal Jones running round saying "Don't Panic" while the rest of are doing our best impressions of Private Frazer "We're Doomed". Remember this ....Cricket as it should be played !
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 23:02:32 GMT
Great minds obviously think alike .....how odd is that ?
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