|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 7:57:40 GMT
................and some of our more well heeled have never experienced Fegg Hayes either.!!
And I am unanimous.
mumf
|
|
Silvio
Youth Player
Posts: 461
|
Post by Silvio on Sept 26, 2013 8:10:25 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Timmypotter on Sept 26, 2013 9:47:09 GMT
I think that one of the key issues is that posters like Timmypotter and the chap who calls himself Sheikh al Dubai bin Stokie are both actually correct in their summaries of increased earnings, but neither are actually right. Just because immigrant workers are earning more than they could back at home is obviously enough for their own purposes of moral justification. I wasn't trying to morally justify the situation to myself or to anyone else. The situation many foreign labourers face IS morally unacceptable and that's one of the reasons I wouldn't have stayed over there for any length of time. I was trying to offer an explanation as to how the situation has arisen. However, it's not just Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Nepalese and Indian men that get a bad deal. Filipino workers, mainly female, are also bought into the Gulf under false pretexts too. Many expect that they will be working in a Mall or a Restaurant, but a large percentage are put to work as prostitutes under duress. Their passports are also withheld and they are given the opportunity to buy back their passports and their freedom by fucking Arabic and Western men three or four times a day. Typically UK10,000 will see a Filipina's passport returned and these great natured and gentle people all to often return home broken and ruined for life. This particular racket is generally run by Arab men who have taken a Filipina lady for one of their wives and they simply provide a babysitter's Visa. It's not uncommon for some Arab men have over 100 babysitters on their house staff, each working as prostitutes at UK10,000 per passport. However, the Police and the courts generally turn a blind eye to this sort of thing too. I think this relates to a different issue than the one being discussed in the thread. Human trafficking for purposes of prostitution is also a problem across Europe. Can you fill us in on the issues surrounding the construction of the Burj Khalifa? Why aren't you able to give more detail?
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 26, 2013 11:25:53 GMT
|
|
|
Post by k on Sept 26, 2013 12:22:35 GMT
This is all becoming a bit of a worldwide disgrace now.
The perceived fairness of how the bid was awarded now becomes a bit academic when you read about the treatment of workers on the construction sites.
The Guardian are reporting that between 4th June-8th Aug (64 days) an incredible 44 workers died becuase of workplace conditions. To give that some context, a major UK contractor client of mine has had 1 fatality in the last 5 years.
There's also reports of forced labour, workers not being paid, passports confiscated, drinking water access denied.
The rhetorical question is: Why is the so called "football community" standing for this? Why is FIFA standing for this? Why are the various World Cup Sponsors standing for this? It's all about greed, corruption and a fistful of cash of course.
In the past (and currently in Zimbabwe, for example), the UK Government has pulled out of UK sporting associations with certain countries becuase of human rights issues, etc. I think we should take a stance here and do so now. Who cares about a football competition that's been organised, when people are literally losing their lives to enable it to go-ahead.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Sept 26, 2013 13:02:15 GMT
It is so wrong on so many levels. There are so many reasons Qatar should be stripped of hosting rights.
|
|
|
Post by k on Sept 26, 2013 13:10:58 GMT
The other question you have to ask, is what due dilligence did FIFA give to the Qatari bid? In light of the fact that they would need to build 100% of the infrastructure from scratch, what steps were taken by FIFA to investigate working conditions in Qatar, workplace/H&S regulation, etc.
It can't be just a shiny video presentation of a computer generated view of what the stadiums will look like (plus a bundle of cash), can it?
Can it?
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Sept 26, 2013 13:14:34 GMT
k, it's clear no due diligence was taken. They don't give dam. All they are bogthered about is their own greedy slimy corrupt wallets
|
|
|
Post by fromtheusa on Sept 26, 2013 13:44:11 GMT
Arrogant Westerners how dare you judge Qatar. Qatar bribed FIFA fair and square. Complain all you want know, but where you when the bribing was taken place??? That's right don't tell me Stoke fans alone couldn't produce the $40k needed to bribe Jack Warner.
I lived in Qatar, the Philippine female workers are locked up in secure dorms to make sure they aren't raped by Qatari men. Because if they are raped they can't bring charges against Qatari mean.
|
|
|
Post by lostinafrenchbar on Sept 26, 2013 13:55:20 GMT
k, it's clear no due diligence was taken. They don't give dam. All they are bogthered about is their own greedy slimy corrupt wallets Platini's made it clear that it was about more than a bunch of rich people giving each other money and that FIFA were being leant on by the likes of the British and French governments, who are busy pocketing as many Qatari dinars as they can in return for selling large amounts of shit to them (the Stratford Olympic Village for example). They wanted Qatar to have the World Cup in return for which they all get patted on the head by the Qataris and told they're good little boys, here have a few more billion and yes we'll buy your crap Parisian team Mr Sarkozy. Platini also admits to having had a long meeting with Sarkozy when the bidding was taking place and Sarkozy was still the French President, but that didn't influence his favouring the Qatari bid at all, oh no, why is his nose growing etc.
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 26, 2013 13:59:19 GMT
The Official BTsport account have just posted this.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 26, 2013 14:15:39 GMT
The Official BTsport account have just posted this. Brilliant, so Qatar in every category bar one, were not 'low risk'. To put that into some sort of context the USA were 'low risk' in every category bar one. And the only two country's to be deemed 'high risk' were Russia and erm, Qatar.
|
|
|
Post by jbstokie on Sept 26, 2013 14:40:04 GMT
Pretty much confirms how much corruption was thought to be within FIFA.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 16:06:48 GMT
I think that one of the key issues is that posters like Timmypotter and the chap who calls himself Sheikh al Dubai bin Stokie are both actually correct in their summaries of increased earnings, but neither are actually right. Just because immigrant workers are earning more than they could back at home is obviously enough for their own purposes of moral justification. I wasn't trying to morally justify the situation to myself or to anyone else. The situation many foreign labourers face IS morally unacceptable and that's one of the reasons I wouldn't have stayed over there for any length of time. I was trying to offer an explanation as to how the situation has arisen. OK Timmy, perhaps I misinterpreted your words. However, I really don't want to get into an argument with you over this because I hold some very specific views on the matter and I also have a little insight. However, it's not just Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Nepalese and Indian men that get a bad deal. Filipino workers, mainly female, are also bought into the Gulf under false pretexts too. Many expect that they will be working in a Mall or a Restaurant, but a large percentage are put to work as prostitutes under duress. Their passports are also withheld and they are given the opportunity to buy them back and their freedom by fucking Arabic and Western men three or four times a day. Typically UK10,000 will see a Filipina's passport returned and these great natured and gentle people all to often return home broken and ruined for life. This particular racket is generally run by Arab men who have a Filipina lady as one of their wives and they simply provide a babysitter's Visa. It's not uncommon for some Arab men have over100 babysitters supposedly on their house staff, each working as prostitutes at UK10,000 per passport return. However, the Police and the courts generally turn a blind eye to this sort of thing too. I think this relates to a different issue than the one being discussed in the thread. Human trafficking for purposes of prostitution is also a problem across Europe. My point here is that particularly within the UAE, human rights tend to be quite often circumvented or completely ignored across the board. The Filipino situation is just another symptom of the same problem. And that stems from the fact that many Emirati's actually believe their own speel and see themselves as superior human beings in every single respect in front of any other race or nation. God knows why, but that is the nub of the issue and it's what provides these individuals with the moral authority to behave in any way they see fit./font]
You may have seen also this YouTube video taken on Sheikh Zayed Road of a local male assaulting an Indian guy he was following in his LandCruiser. It's just appalling especially when you consider that if the Indian retaliates he could be looking at a 10 year stretch in one Dubai's jails. Can you fill us in on the issues surrounding the construction of the Burj Khalifa? Why aren't you able to give more detail? I'm really not trying to be precious here but it's not at all right for me to discuss the finer detail of this issue on an open forum. Hope you can understand my position on that.
|
|
|
Post by yeswilko on Sept 26, 2013 19:23:14 GMT
The whole thing is a joke, one which gets less and less funny with every passing day.
|
|
|
Post by lastoftheldk on Sept 26, 2013 20:39:07 GMT
Looks like its up to the fans, start protesting, singing, holding banners up etc especialy during televised matches, maybe getting the costruction unions involved ( but dont let it get hijackded by left or right radicals) this then might embarrass the player and managers union/associations to get involved or maybe a high profile player to come out and say that he wont go to the world cup there
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Sept 26, 2013 23:24:54 GMT
|
|
|
Post by basingstokie on Sept 27, 2013 11:57:37 GMT
The Official BTsport account have just posted this. This just makes the WC look so risky You've really got to wonder how a body of intelligent people could evaluate this report in an unbiased way and decide that Qatar was the best place to hold the WC. & the table doesn't even mention that it is hotter than hell in the Summer in Qatar and simply impossible to play football in an open air environment.
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Oct 4, 2013 9:16:57 GMT
Apparently, out of FIFA's 22 different voting parties, only one asked questions about the heat in Qatar at the time of the original World Cup vote. Is it corruption or incompetence!?!
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 4, 2013 9:22:50 GMT
A mixture of both probably. Some were certainly corrupt (and have been found guilty at an enquiry), some were influenced by their national governments' trade aspirations - and the remainder simply didn't give a damn and just followed the herd.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Oct 4, 2013 9:25:47 GMT
I thought the Church Of England is famously "the Tory party at prayer" so it wouldn't need FIFA to make them look like it
|
|
|
Post by thebet365 on Oct 4, 2013 9:32:32 GMT
And I bet the question was do you think I can get away with a factor 20 there.
|
|
|
Post by lastoftheldk on Oct 4, 2013 9:32:45 GMT
Corruption on a big scale
|
|
|
Post by boothenesque on Oct 4, 2013 9:37:08 GMT
Aaah I see what you did there, you linked the scandal of the Qatar WC to the Tories. No hidden agenda there then ;-)
|
|
|
Post by britsabroad on Oct 4, 2013 9:56:58 GMT
Rather amusingly, when FIFA published the bid documents for all countries, Russia and Qatar were judged, by FIFA, to be the least capable of hosting a successful tournament.
I have a good friend who worked on the 2022 bid and I heard all about how fair and democratic the process was.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 10:02:01 GMT
Apparently, out of FIFA's 22 different voting parties, only one asked questions about the heat in Qatar at the time of the original World Cup vote. Is it corruption or incompetence!?! The other 21 were too busy opening brown envelopes and counting there cash.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 4, 2013 11:56:01 GMT
A mixture of both probably. Some were certainly corrupt (and have been found guilty at an enquiry), some were influenced by their national governments' trade aspirations - and the remainder simply didn't give a damn and just followed the herd. John I was wondering, do you know if it's been confirmed anywhere (beyond Platini claiming that it happened) that this really did take place? cheers
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 12:05:26 GMT
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
We should just boycott the whole thing in light of these developments. These corrupt arseholes will never change unless action is taken. Some things are more important than football.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 4, 2013 12:14:36 GMT
A mixture of both probably. Some were certainly corrupt (and have been found guilty at an enquiry), some were influenced by their national governments' trade aspirations - and the remainder simply didn't give a damn and just followed the herd. John I was wondering, do you know if it's been confirmed anywhere (beyond Platini claiming that it happened) that this really did take place? cheers No I've not seen any proof. But a surprising number of countries seem to have had trade deals in the "pipeline" with Qatar which could have benefited by their delegates voting for a Qatar based World Cup - including France apparently. I don't know how you stop that sort of thing. You can stamp down on direct bribery of the delegates (if you can prove it) but how do you prove that National trade interests played a part? One problem is that in several countries "bribery" to smooth trade deals is the norm rather than being classed as a dubious practice - we've had our own problems with defence deals with Saudi.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 4, 2013 12:20:30 GMT
John I was wondering, do you know if it's been confirmed anywhere (beyond Platini claiming that it happened) that this really did take place? cheers No I've not seen any proof. But a surprising number of countries seem to have had trade deals in the "pipeline" with Qatar which could have benefited by their delegates voting for a Qatar based World Cup - including France apparently. I don't know how you stop that sort of thing. You can stamp down on direct bribery (if you can prove it) but how do you prove that National trade interests played a part? One problem is that in several countries "bribery" to smooth trade deals is the norm rather than being classed as a dubious practice. I guess if you have any integrity as a governing body then you would voice your disapproval (even if there is nothing directly you can do) about it prior to the voting process beginning. Surely far more worthy of a negative steer from the leader, rather the Blatter's attack on the UK bid just because of a Panorama documentary. Yes I know ... and pigs might fly!
|
|