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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 16:32:41 GMT
This Pre Season and transfer window has been interesting, because I've noticed some parallels from last season's complaints from some, not all, fans...
1) Fans berated Pulis for square pegs in round holes - some have asked for Pieters to play left mid
2) Vilified club for spending large amounts of money on old strikers with no resale - Want Defoe/Bent this window
3) Want a change of style - complain it's toothless and boring in friendlies
4) Moan that strikers don't score - still hate Walters when he does ;D
They're just a few, and they won't relate to all of you but as supporters it's quite funny. I guess sometimes people will just find any excuse!
Anyone else found any more?
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 11, 2013 16:34:37 GMT
Yes. Guilty as charged.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 16:39:09 GMT
are fans hypocrites ? well yes, most are (including myself)
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 11, 2013 16:39:20 GMT
Squad is too old and needs fresh blood - Young players are unproven and too much of a risk.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 11, 2013 16:41:06 GMT
Football fans in being hypocrites and fickle shocker.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 16:41:53 GMT
First of all Jase, you're assuming that the same people moaning about one thing are the same people moaning about the other, which isn't necessarily true. As far as square pegs go, they're not automatically a bad thing if you've got a genuinely good player who can play adeptly in a number of positions. The issue with TP was that few of his square pegs did much of a job in those roles and oftentimes were keeping out a more capable specialist in that position. Second, many people wanted a change in style specifically because we were toothless and boring! Still being worried that we're toothless and boring therefore seems pretty consistent. Again, with the resale value thing, the issue was that the majority of TP's signings had little resale value. The odd experienced player here and there isn't a problem, surely? Although I wouldn't want Darren Bent. Walters I'll give you.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 16:45:23 GMT
First of all Jase, you're assuming that the same people moaning about one thing are the same people moaning about the other, which isn't necessarily true. As far as square pegs go, they're not automatically a bad thing if you've got a genuinely good player who can play adeptly in a number of positions. The issue with TP was that few of his square pegs did much of a job in those roles and oftentimes were keeping out a more capable specialist in that position. Second, many people wanted a change in style specifically because we were toothless and boring! Still being worried that we're toothless and boring therefore seems pretty consistent. Again, with the resale value thing, the issue was that the majority of TP's signings had little resale value. The odd experienced player here and there isn't a problem, surely? Although I wouldn't want Darren Bent. Walters I'll give you. Decent counter arguments in fairness! Agree with those points, although still apprehensive on the experience part with some forwards. Just feel that if they come in alongside someone, ie Bent with Diouf, then great. But those older players probably shouldn't be first choice this window. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 16:46:28 GMT
First of all Jase, you're assuming that the same people moaning about one thing are the same people moaning about the other, which isn't necessarily true. As far as square pegs go, they're not automatically a bad thing if you've got a genuinely good player who can play adeptly in a number of positions. The issue with TP was that few of his square pegs did much of a job in those roles and oftentimes were keeping out a more capable specialist in that position. Second, many people wanted a change in style specifically because we were toothless and boring! Still being worried that we're toothless and boring therefore seems pretty consistent. Again, with the resale value thing, the issue was that the majority of TP's signings had little resale value. The odd experienced player here and there isn't a problem, surely? Although I wouldn't want Darren Bent. Walters I'll give you. Decent counter arguments in fairness! Agree with those points, although still apprehensive on the experience part with some forwards. Just feel that if they come in alongside someone, ie Bent with Diouf, then great. But those older players probably shouldn't be first choice this window. I think as long as there's a blend and balance it doesn't matter. Focusing entirely on youth at the cost of experience is just as daft as vice versa IMO. |
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Post by owdestokie on Aug 11, 2013 16:48:10 GMT
Rob. Just for clarity who other than Crouch are the "majority" when signed had little or no resale value
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 16:50:46 GMT
Rob. Just for clarity who other than Crouch are the "majority" when signed had little or no resale value Anyone we've signed aged 28 or over in the last decade Owde. As I said you need experience and a lot of the veterans were key to our success but TP was on the whole fairly averse to using young players. There are exceptions, but that's just what they are; exceptions. |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Aug 11, 2013 16:52:57 GMT
Rob. Just for clarity who other than Crouch are the "majority" when signed had little or no resale value Owde, I think the net spend figure highlights Rob's point. We signed a lot of players for a lot of money and have shipped a load out without recouping very much. As it stands we have Bego, Huth, Ryan and probably N'Zonzi who we could make money on (and good money to be fair). |
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 11, 2013 16:56:17 GMT
Rob. Just for clarity who other than Crouch are the "majority" when signed had little or no resale value Owde, I think the net spend figure highlights Rob's point. We signed a lot of players for a lot of money and have shipped a load out without recouping very much. As it stands we have Bego, Huth, Ryan and probably N'Zonzi who we could make money on (and good money to be fair). In fairness how many teams outside the top 5/6 have many players that they make massive amounts on? Most of our players have more than paid for themselves as in the cash they have bought into the club by keeping us in the Prem. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 16:59:26 GMT
Owde, I think the net spend figure highlights Rob's point. We signed a lot of players for a lot of money and have shipped a load out without recouping very much. As it stands we have Bego, Huth, Ryan and probably N'Zonzi who we could make money on (and good money to be fair). In fairness how many teams outside the top 5/6 have many players that they make massive amounts on? Most of our players have more than paid for themselves as in the cash they have bought into the club by keeping us in the Prem. The majority of other clubs in the league have sold at least 1-2 players on for a decent profit in the last five years or so I'd say. |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Aug 11, 2013 16:59:28 GMT
Owde, I think the net spend figure highlights Rob's point. We signed a lot of players for a lot of money and have shipped a load out without recouping very much. As it stands we have Bego, Huth, Ryan and probably N'Zonzi who we could make money on (and good money to be fair). In fairness how many teams outside the top 5/6 have many players that they make massive amounts on? Most of our players have more than paid for themselves as in the cash they have bought into the club by keeping us in the Prem. I think "most" is stretching a bit (or maybe a lot) Stafford. We have had a mainstay of players who have done that job over the last 5 years. My personal view is the majority were a load of fucking wasters who bled us dry and were a disgrace to their profession. |
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Post by owdestokie on Aug 11, 2013 17:04:30 GMT
Jamo. Who are the majority wasters? From the number that came in saved us from relegation, got us promoted and kept us in the Premier.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 11, 2013 17:05:12 GMT
In fairness how many teams outside the top 5/6 have many players that they make massive amounts on? Most of our players have more than paid for themselves as in the cash they have bought into the club by keeping us in the Prem. The majority of other clubs in the league have sold at least 1-2 players on for a decent profit in the last five years or so I'd say. Yes and if we sold the likes of Shawcross, Bego or N,zonzi then so would we. I think it says a lot about the club that we can keep hold of these players and a lot about Pulis for being the main reason Shawcross pen his long contract. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 17:06:18 GMT
The majority of other clubs in the league have sold at least 1-2 players on for a decent profit in the last five years or so I'd say. Yes and if we sold the likes of Shawcross, Bego or N,zonzi then so would we. I think it says a lot about the club that we can keep hold of these players and a lot about Pulis for being the main reason Shawcross pen his long contract. Yeah but as I said that's 3 players in 10 years. |
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 11, 2013 17:08:52 GMT
Yes and if we sold the likes of Shawcross, Bego or N,zonzi then so would we. I think it says a lot about the club that we can keep hold of these players and a lot about Pulis for being the main reason Shawcross pen his long contract. Yeah but as I said that's 3 players in 10 years. And? MOST players bought in over the last 10 years have been bought in for a pittance in comparison to the cost of other teams players. |
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Post by geoff321 on Aug 11, 2013 17:08:55 GMT
I think an example of an hypocritical attitude from fans is those that say for instance " I don't mind us losing or finishing lower in the table as long as we play better football and have a bit of excitement "
My guess is that some of the people who say that will be the first to slag Hughes off, if the results go badly.
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Post by kingstokie on Aug 11, 2013 17:10:01 GMT
 Of course not :) |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 17:10:12 GMT
Yeah but as I said that's 3 players in 10 years. And? MOST players bought in over the last 10 years have been bought in for a pittance in comparison to the cost of other teams players. Really? I thought we were in the top three for the top net spenders in the league since promotion and one of the highest spenders in the Championship the year we were promoted? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 17:10:48 GMT
I think an example of an hypocritical attitude from fans is those that say for instance " I don't mind us losing or finishing lower in the table as long as we play better football and have a bit of excitement " My guess is that some of the people who say that will be the first to slag Hughes off, if the results go badly. Based on what? |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Aug 11, 2013 17:11:45 GMT
Jamo. Who are the majority wasters? From the number that came in saved us from relegation, got us promoted and kept us in the Premier. The list is (almost) endless. Tonge Soares Sonko Collins Olifinjana Kitson Davies Arismendi Gudjohnsson Upson Woodgate Palacios Edu Ness Kightly Owen I would suggest that's more than the list of additions who have done well for us since promotion. Edit: I could have added a few more but I was being as fair as I could be. Also Palacios I'm still hopeful of turning a corner but as yet he's on the list. |
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 11, 2013 17:13:28 GMT
And? MOST players bought in over the last 10 years have been bought in for a pittance in comparison to the cost of other teams players. Really? I thought we were in the top three for the top net spenders in the league since promotion and one of the highest spenders in the Championship the year we were promoted? So you don't think we have had some bargains over the last 10 years even if they have had no resale value? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 17:15:06 GMT
Jamo. Who are the majority wasters? From the number that came in saved us from relegation, got us promoted and kept us in the Premier. The list is (almost) endless. Tonge Soares Sonko Collins Olifinjana Kitson Davies Arismendi Gudjohnsson Upson Woodgate Palacios Edu Ness Kightly Owen I would suggest that's more than the list of additions who have done well for us since promotion. Roughly 32M that little lot, plus wages obviously. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 17:15:37 GMT
Really? I thought we were in the top three for the top net spenders in the league since promotion and one of the highest spenders in the Championship the year we were promoted? So you don't think we have had some bargains over the last 10 years even if they have had no resale value? I'm pretty sure I've already said that we have. As I said, more than once on the thread, experience is important and it's daft to focus excessively on youth as it is to focus excessively on older players. That doesn't mean we've been right to neglect younger talent. The Pulis spending model was unsustainable for a club our size. |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Aug 11, 2013 17:15:57 GMT
The list is (almost) endless. Tonge Soares Sonko Collins Olifinjana Kitson Davies Arismendi Gudjohnsson Upson Woodgate Palacios Edu Ness Kightly Owen I would suggest that's more than the list of additions who have done well for us since promotion. Roughly 32M that little lot, plus wages obviously. Plus a shit load of wages and signing on fees. |
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Post by generationex on Aug 11, 2013 18:02:46 GMT
32 million from the 300 million earned from premiership survival is still not a bad return.
Even if the duffers wages were 30 million that's got to balanced against the 30 million of assets we've got.
We've only got badly burnt with Kitson and Palacios.
We certainly had our money's worth from the Delaps and Fullers and they also sold for nowt.
Relegation will make these figures laughable.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Aug 11, 2013 18:11:01 GMT
32 million from the 300 million earned from premiership survival is still not a bad return. Even if the duffers wages were 30 million that's got to balanced against the 30 million of assets we've got. We've only got badly burnt with Kitson and Palacios. We certainly had our money's worth from the Delaps and Fullers and they also sold for nowt. Relegation will make these figures laughable. That's not quite how it stacks up though, mate. As it stands we are operating at a loss despite all that income. This is why the club are looking at players who we can sell on for a profit. |
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Post by owdestokie on Aug 11, 2013 18:14:42 GMT
32 million. I thought Woodgate, Upson, Owen, Ness, Gudjohnssn were non contract/free transfers or am I mistaken.....that's without knowing the extent of their contracts.
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