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Post by sportsman on Jun 9, 2013 8:20:51 GMT
I blame the players as well. If they weren't money grabbing big ego knob heads they'd choose other clubs instead of choosing to sit at a big clubs sub bench.
As long as they are playing against the big boys in training all week they still think they've made it
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Post by werrington on Jun 9, 2013 8:23:24 GMT
I blame the players as well. If they weren't money grabbing big ego knob heads they'd choose other clubs instead of choosing to sit at a big clubs sub bench. As long as they are playing against the big boys in training all week they still think they've made it So very true in many aspects |
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Post by sportsman on Jun 9, 2013 8:35:11 GMT
It i was a young England player I'd want to play week in week out in the prem. The worse one is jack Rodwell. I'd never pick him for his country again. Leaving Everton for man city's reserved says it all.
Mind you, he can tell all his mates he trains with Tevez and co
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 9, 2013 8:38:31 GMT
Crude sweeping generalisation time....... English players are as thick as fuck. They would grow as players and as people by moving overseas but choose to stay in England where, apparently, the pay is more. Mourinho has this thing where he likes his players to be involved in tactics for a game. At Chelsea there would be a big discussion with views exchanged and during the debate the English players would sit in silence with nothing to offer, and that includes Lampard who widely reckoned to be one of the more intelligent players. I remember a backlash against Keegan when he went to Hamburg, perhaps this little Englander mentality still prevails?
Too much emphasis on physical contact not enough focus on the ball. Too much pride on basics not enough striving for expansion. Spain have proven a culture can evolve. I question if English football really wants to change....in that I include supporters as well.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Jun 9, 2013 8:56:17 GMT
Crude sweeping generalisation time....... English players are as thick as fuck. They would grow as players and as people by moving overseas but choose to stay in England where, apparently, the pay is more. Mourinho has this thing where he likes his players to be involved in tactics for a game. At Chelsea there would be a big discussion with views exchanged and during the debate the English players would sit in silence with nothing to offer, and that includes Lampard who widely reckoned to be one of the more intelligent players. I remember a backlash against Keegan when he went to Hamburg, perhaps this little Englander mentality still prevails? Too much emphasis on physical contact not enough focus on the ball. Too much pride on basics not enough striving for expansion. Spain have proven a culture can evolve. I question if English football really wants to change....in that I include supporters as well. The fact that it may be a crude, sweeping generalisation does not mean it is necessarily inaccurate. I think it's an excellent observation. The Little Englander ("Fog Over Channel - Europe Cut Off") mentality goes much wider than football, of course. But so far as football is concerned, it staggers me that pundits still lazily drone on about the strengths of the English game - pace, power, determination and so on - when it is palpably obvious that the teams which have dominated are not only generally more skilful than England, they have also been fitter and faster. Not only do they retain possession much better, they work much harder when they don't have it. Keegan is a good illustration of how few English players have been overseas and made a success - and improved their game (and indeed probably the quality of their own life and the lives of their families). |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 9, 2013 9:10:58 GMT
Exactly mate. We need to be aware of the possibilities of football. The most basic things are a struggle. Pundits overlook the fact that other nations are flexible. ALSO blaming the England manager is a bit lame. Look at the players they have to deal with it can't be easy. ALSO don't put too much emphasis on the money they get.
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Post by stokiejoe on Jun 9, 2013 9:30:57 GMT
When I was growing up, a very long time ago, every day of the school holidays was spent playing football. Now it doesn't happen even where there are facilities. Time is spent in front of the computer. We didn't have all the facilities, played in the street with a tennis ball and learned skills that way. We may have a bigger pipulation but we continue to pick our players from a very small pool. It is a shame but we are no longer a top footballing nation.
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Post by unknown182 on Jun 9, 2013 10:10:16 GMT
When Connor Wickham is your first choice striker you know you're in trouble
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Post by sportsman on Jun 9, 2013 10:34:12 GMT
That tv money has come just at the right time for the premier league. Keeps fans just about off their back before eventually the country blames it for England's failings.
Gives them another year or two before they start coming in for more stick, then they'll come up with another deal so the fans think its all just about worth putting up with.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jun 9, 2013 12:11:11 GMT
To be fair other countries like Italy, Holland and Germany have the pick all u21 players at important games. So we should be playing Wilshire, oxlaide chamberlain etc in this competition. Apparently England were missing 17 players that would have made the under 21s squad. For the same tournament Italy are only missing 2. I agree with Pearce when he says these younger players need to be playing tournament football if they're going to reach their potential. Englands actual XI vs Italy: 01 Butland 02 Clyne Booked 04 Caulker 06 Dawson 09 Robinson 08 Henderson 10 Lowe 18 Shelvey 19 Redmond 21 Sordell 22 Wickham Potential XI: 1. Jack Butland (Stoke City) 2. Kyle Walker (Tottenham) 3. Luke Shaw (Southampton) 4. Jack Rodwell (Man City) 5. Phil Jones (Man Utd) 6. Steven Caulker (Tottenham) 7. Raheem Sterling (Liverpool) 8. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) 9. Danny Welbeck (Man Utd) 10. Jack Wilshere (Arsenal) 11. Wilfried Zaha (Man Utd) www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22797497We'd won 9 in a row without conceding leading up to the tournament! |
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Post by werrington on Jun 9, 2013 12:15:21 GMT
To be fair other countries like Italy, Holland and Germany have the pick all u21 players at important games. So we should be playing Wilshire, oxlaide chamberlain etc in this competition. Apparently England were missing 17 players that would have made the under 21s squad. For the same tournament Italy are only missing 2. I agree with Pearce when he says these younger players need to be playing tournament football if they're going to reach their potential. Englands actual XI vs Italy: 01 Butland 02 Clyne Booked 04 Caulker 06 Dawson 09 Robinson 08 Henderson 10 Lowe 18 Shelvey 19 Redmond 21 Sordell 22 Wickham Potential XI: 1. Jack Butland (Stoke City) 2. Kyle Walker (Tottenham) 3. Luke Shaw (Southampton) 4. Jack Rodwell (Man City) 5. Phil Jones (Man Utd) 6. Steven Caulker (Tottenham) 7. Raheem Sterling (Liverpool) 8. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) 9. Danny Welbeck (Man Utd) 10. Jack Wilshere (Arsenal) 11. Wilfried Zaha (Man Utd) www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22797497We'd won 9 in a row without conceding leading up to the tournament! Wow That's unbelievable and puts some perspective on things |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2013 14:51:47 GMT
No player who hasn't played at least 10 first team games should be on the team sheet, (exceptions for injuries excepted).
We must get our young players back into teams where they can play not sit on a bench, some of the best players in the world play in the prem , to learn from them our lads need to play against them ,not sit and watch like we do.
Management needs to have a CLEAR policy on style that applies to ALL levels of our game , which means far more involvement for the England first team manager and coaching staff with the youth. All singing from the same Hymn Sheet.
Lastly we MUST stop choosing managers who are perceived to be whiter than white characters we need the best Football coaches , not the best church leaders.
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Post by MilanStokie on Jun 9, 2013 14:56:25 GMT
Apart from the obvious poor coaching and team selection, the Premier League should start enforcing a minimum number of homegrown u21 players in the matchday 18. 3 would be right for me, even if its bench experience, it should be started now or else the Under 21 teams of the future are going to be more and more championship based players. And by homegrown I mean British, none of these 21 year old foreigners who qualify because they have been in the UK for a few years...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 9, 2013 15:14:55 GMT
Lets not take the heat off Pearce here, most things on this thread are spot on but he's a big part of the problem with the U-21's. The bloke just isn't cut out to be a manager.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2013 15:28:31 GMT
Lets not take the heat off Pearce here, most things on this thread are spot on but he's a big part of the problem with the U-21's. The bloke just isn't cut out to be a manager. Correct and he isn't much of a coach either. |
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Post by gb on Jun 9, 2013 18:42:59 GMT
Thats answered the question of "why isn't there many U21 players playing in the Premier" . On there last few outings they are just not good enough end of . Actually crap .
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 9, 2013 19:45:42 GMT
Agreed, the staring line up against Brazil came from just five clubs the lowest of which was Liverpool. Whilst in some ways this should be expected our game changer on the night, Ox, can't get even get in to his side on a regular basis. Chamberlain should still be at Southampton or at West Brom or with us, he would be a far more accomplished player by now but then Roy probably wouldn't pick him if he was. Loves a big side Roy does. You only have to look at that abortion Cahill who is a regular in Woys team , especially after effectively hanging Ryan out to dry the cunt. I'm not saying Ryan covered himself in glory , but to be never mentioned again after some of the shit juice we are regularly having to watch, it makes sense in a way.! Wankers who deserve each other. H So you think the inclusion of Ryan Shawcross in the national team is going to help us to compete with Brazil, West Germany and Holland? I admire your sense of loyalty if nothing else. |
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Post by RAF on Jun 9, 2013 19:50:30 GMT
You only have to look at that abortion Cahill who is a regular in Woys team , especially after effectively hanging Ryan out to dry the cunt. I'm not saying Ryan covered himself in glory , but to be never mentioned again after some of the shit juice we are regularly having to watch, it makes sense in a way.! Wankers who deserve each other. H So you think the inclusion of Ryan Shawcross in the national team is going to help us to compete with Brazil, West Germany and Holland? I admire your sense of loyalty if nothing else. Where did I say that? It was an example of Hodgson and actually England managers inability to pick form players and not just for their names or which club they play for! H |
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Post by stokiejoeofalsager on Jun 9, 2013 20:06:28 GMT
I've been to st george's park today to watch an under 11's international cup, in which several young teams took part, including stoke, wolves, west brom, arsenal, blackburn, man city and then AC milan and Anderlecht.
The thing that struck me was the alarming gap in ability between the english teams and the two foreign ones.
I feel that the english teams are trying to emulate barca with their style, except badly. The coaches wont allow any big boots, even in their own six yard area. As a result, Many of the english teams conceded goals trying to play it around in their own half or sometimes even their own box. They would constantly be shouting "possession!!" from the sidelines.
Milan and Anderlecht however could mix it up more. Their style was both physical and stylish. Some of their players were incredibly skillful and the teams played much quicker and more exciting football than the english teams. Right down to communication- they were better.
Right down to the roots, english football is miles behind the rest.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 9, 2013 21:20:25 GMT
I've been to st george's park today to watch an under 11's international cup, in which several young teams took part, including stoke, wolves, west brom, arsenal, blackburn, man city and then AC milan and Anderlecht. The thing that struck me was the alarming gap in ability between the english teams and the two foreign ones. I feel that the english teams are trying to emulate barca with their style, except badly. The coaches wont allow any big boots, even in their own six yard area. As a result, Many of the english teams conceded goals trying to play it around in their own half or sometimes even their own box. They would constantly be shouting "possession!!" from the sidelines. Milan and Anderlecht however could mix it up more. Their style was both physical and stylish. Some of their players were incredibly skillful and the teams played much quicker and more exciting football than the english teams. Right down to communication- they were better. Right down to the roots, english football is miles behind the rest. How did we do? |
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Post by stokiejoeofalsager on Jun 9, 2013 21:31:56 GMT
I've been to st george's park today to watch an under 11's international cup, in which several young teams took part, including stoke, wolves, west brom, arsenal, blackburn, man city and then AC milan and Anderlecht. The thing that struck me was the alarming gap in ability between the english teams and the two foreign ones. I feel that the english teams are trying to emulate barca with their style, except badly. The coaches wont allow any big boots, even in their own six yard area. As a result, Many of the english teams conceded goals trying to play it around in their own half or sometimes even their own box. They would constantly be shouting "possession!!" from the sidelines. Milan and Anderlecht however could mix it up more. Their style was both physical and stylish. Some of their players were incredibly skillful and the teams played much quicker and more exciting football than the english teams. Right down to communication- they were better. Right down to the roots, english football is miles behind the rest. How did we do? 10th out of 12. Although if it had been on goal difference rather than goals scored we would have gone through to the semis. Another thing I noticed is the sickening amount of play acting, and all round big-headedness even at that age. Also the lack of contact referees allowed. Doesnt look good for the future of the game  |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 9, 2013 21:34:18 GMT
10th out of 12. Although if it had been on goal difference rather than goals scored we would have gone through to the semis. Another thing I noticed is the sickening amount of play acting, and all round big-headedness even at that age. Also the lack of contact referees allowed. Doesnt look good for the future of the game Cheers! It sounds like a thoroughly frustrating watch then! Play acting, shite possession football, fanny ass referees and no Stoke in the latter stages! Some things never change!  |
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 10, 2013 1:09:33 GMT
So you think the inclusion of Ryan Shawcross in the national team is going to help us to compete with Brazil, West Germany and Holland? I admire your sense of loyalty if nothing else. Where did I say that? It was an example of Hodgson and actually England managers inability to pick form players and not just for their names or which club they play for! H So who are you suggesting to play centre half for a England then? Where is Hodgson supposed to get a centre half who is good enough to compete with top countries? Shawcross is a good club player. International player, No. Not if you want an England who are going to compete for honours. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 10, 2013 3:05:12 GMT
I feel that the english teams are trying to emulate barca with their style, except badly. The coaches wont allow any big boots, even in their own six yard area. As a result, Many of the english teams conceded goals trying to play it around in their own half or sometimes even their own box. They would constantly be shouting "possession!!" from the sidelines.
That's right though. At under 11 they are developing and the big boots is one of the crappest things about English players. If it means they grow into the habit of keeping the ball and being comfortable then it;s worth it. At that age emphasis shpuld be on learning to control and use the ball in tight areas.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jun 10, 2013 8:55:23 GMT
The FA are on about changing Pearse for Southgate, WTF? One crap Coach for another.  |
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Post by MilanStokie on Jun 10, 2013 12:15:38 GMT
Where did I say that? It was an example of Hodgson and actually England managers inability to pick form players and not just for their names or which club they play for! H So who are you suggesting to play centre half for a England then? Where is Hodgson supposed to get a centre half who is good enough to compete with top countries? Shawcross is a good club player. International player, No. Not if you want an England who are going to compete for honours. He isn't suggesting that is he? He is highlighting that Hodgson and co select players based on who they play for rather than their actual ability or form. Cahill and Lescott were selected for England in the last 18 months whilst both players were spending ample time on the bench of their club, whereas at that time the likes of Shawcross, Caulker and Taylor were being overlooked and all 3 were in decent or very good form. |
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Post by RAF on Jun 10, 2013 16:55:48 GMT
Where did I say that? It was an example of Hodgson and actually England managers inability to pick form players and not just for their names or which club they play for! H So who are you suggesting to play centre half for a England then? Where is Hodgson supposed to get a centre half who is good enough to compete with top countries? Shawcross is a good club player. International player, No. Not if you want an England who are going to compete for honours. I'm suggesting he keeps to his word of picking form players and not names and who they play for. It's quite simple. H |
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