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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 24, 2013 11:55:01 GMT
Well said, Doz.
If it's a gamble either way and there are no clear benefits, the bloke deserves some loyalty and another chance.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 11:56:20 GMT
Well said, Doz. If it's a gamble either way and there are no clear benefits, the bloke deserves some loyalty and another chance. So at what point does that change Okey? |
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 11:58:37 GMT
Rob, you know where I am on this. I think he wants to develop our playing style but it is very difficult to get it right first time. The Palacios signing was a disaster, but he looked like exactly the kind of player we needed at the time. He gambled on Adam and Kightly this summer for relatively low money in Premier League terms, and it hasn't worked out as we hoped. But make no mistake he has delivered big time before. Whatever Rossi says, he arrived when we were deep in the mire at the bottom of the Championship. When we got hammered away at Forest, I thought we were going back down. At that point, Mark Crossley and Gerry Taggart were inspirational signings. On our climb through the Championship, Dioa, Higginbotham, Fuller, Lawrence, Delap, Shawcross and even Hendrie and Creswell to a degree were great acquisitions. When we got promoted, Abdy Faye and Soro were key, and the January window gave us Beattie and Etherington. When it has really mattered, he's got the big player decisions bang on. He now has an opportunity to find those kind of players again. All managers get it wrong sometimes. Why are these other names going to do better than a bloke who has succeeded so well before? I'd rather risk getting rid and have a hope of enjoying my football again. Exactly & so would thousands of others. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 11:59:36 GMT
When we go down Rob.
In fact, scrap that, he'll deserve a chance to take us back up if that happens.....
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 24, 2013 12:00:19 GMT
Yes I understand that rob and I realise that his time might be up. I just get riled at how some dismiss any (perfectly justified) questions about suggested replacements with accusations that we (the likes of me) are simply 'up the manager's arse'. It's not true at all. I'd love to give him 200% support because (IMO) he deserves it but I am perfectly realistic about football. Clearly there is the risk that Puliis will continue nexte season, will have taken nothing on board and we will struggle but it's also fair to question the suitability of some of the names offered up as replacements. The club will make it's decisions and I will support them but, as I've said many times, it will be a very, very sad day that I watch Tony Pulis walk away from The Brit. Maybe I'm being far too sentimental for a hard-nosed football fan but I think I owe him my loyalty. Wow. I find it hard to believe that for all his faults some people still think TP is best man for the job, unbelievable Geoff To be fair mate, for all his faults (and I'm well aware of them), Tony Pulis has been a very successful Stoke City manager when looked at as a whole. Of course he's had fantastic financial support in the Premier League but so have many others who have failed, some of which are now being suggested as replacements. It's ok to highlight Pulis' faults mate as long as you accept the perfectly valid questioning of the credentials of possible replacements. In the end, it may well be time for Tony to go but (IMO) we owe him a great deal as Stoke City fans and I detest the lack of respect that this man gets from some quarters. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 12:02:49 GMT
This sentiment is bizarre. If you 'assess' Pulis' record it doesn't exactly glitter, his resume paints a picture of failure before he came here. A lower league failure at that. It's seemingly okay for Pulis to do nothing at Bournemouth and fail at both Bristol City & Portsmouth... Yet woe betide anyone else who doesn't boast an unblemished record. When Pulis came here we were on the very brink of third-tier football NOT an established Premier League Club. He wasn't our first choice as manager and had previously turned us down. True, guess I'm just scared of change! Let's just wait and see, as long as we remain a PL club I'm happy. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 12:03:10 GMT
*Double post
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 12:04:43 GMT
Wow. I find it hard to believe that for all his faults some people still think TP is best man for the job, unbelievable Geoff To be fair mate, for all his faults (and I'm well aware of them), Tony Pulis has been a very successful Stoke City manager when looked at as a whole. Of course he's had fantastic financial support in the Premier League but so have many others who have failed, some of which are now being suggested as replacements. It's ok to highlight Pulis' faults mate as long as you accept the perfectly valid questioning of the credentials of possible replacements. In the end, it may well be time for Tony to go but (IMO) we owe him a great deal as Stoke City fans and I detest the lack of respect that this man gets from some quarters. I agree with the "has been" part but it's clear for all to see he is not suited to take the club forward, by forwrd I mean the clubs direction, won't tolerate youth, limited in his transfer avenues & a massive point for me is he can not deal with the modern footballer and get the best out of them. |
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 12:05:54 GMT
.... takes supporters for fools, plays players out of position, dare not use technically gifetd footballers, the list goes on & on.
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 12:08:15 GMT
I hope he does get a job elsewhere in the football league after because his managerial qualities will be there for all to see if he lands at some where like a Huddersfield or a
Burnley, we'll see just how good he is with an average budget in an average league.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 24, 2013 12:08:46 GMT
When Pulis came here we were on the very brink of third-tier football NOT an established Premier League Club. He wasn't our first choice as manager and had previously turned us down. On the brink? He arrived in November not late April for gawd sake. He also left the club in a state first time round, just 12 first team players wasn't it? I''d hazard a guess it was the £100m that established us in the PL. So when its going well its the money and anyone but Pulis, but when we are doing badly its all Pulis hmmmm, I want Pulis replaced but it was more than just the 100m that helped get us established. |
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Post by stokiejoe on Apr 24, 2013 12:09:10 GMT
It is a gamble but keeping him is worse. He has had 18 months and at least 3 transfer windows to correct a number of obvious problems, full backs for example. If he remains his history has shown he will not change. If you accept that then a new manager is the only solution. Who depends on who is available or attracted to the job in summer. We could easily have 10 or more players leaving so there is a golden opportunity to reshape the team. With money available I don' t see why we shouldn't be an attractive prospect.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 24, 2013 12:09:45 GMT
All managers are ultimately judged on results.
I want to enjoy the football again like everybody, but surely we can't just ditch a previously great manager at the first sign of trouble?
If he can find away to create more chances and score more goals with more positive football, then isn't that what we all want?
He's done it before and the changes that will take place in the squad this summer make it the perfect opportunity to do it again.
I would actually give him the whole of next season, but if a relatively new team was struggling at Christmas I would accept that we would have to consider change to preserve our Premier League status.
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 12:09:48 GMT
TP's underdog card has past his use by date and his fortunes have followed suit.
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Post by lordb on Apr 24, 2013 12:10:39 GMT
Anyone else worried sick re someof the names touted
Eddie Howe !
Hoddle,some bloke from PSG,the Neville brothers,MacLaren,Hughes e.t.c.
Jeesus H
note to self: don't look at this thread late at night.
somone please post some sensible names please
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 12:11:15 GMT
All managers are ultimately judged on results. I want to enjoy the football again like everybody, but surely we can't just ditch a previously great manager at the first sign of trouble? If he can find away to create more chances and score more goals with more positive football, then isn't that what we all want? He's done it before and the changes that will take place in the squad this summer make it the perfect opportunity to do it again. I would actually give him the whole of next season, but if a relatively new team was struggling at Christmas I would accept that we would have to consider change to preserve our Premier League status. The warning signs were there last season and this season is a final reminder mate, he is now out of his depth. |
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Post by Old School Stokie on Apr 24, 2013 12:11:58 GMT
what a laughable array of no hopers and non better than the present.
Even Arry was God's gift a little over 6 months ago. He took on QPR with money to spend in January and a decent squad and look where QPR find themselves. Will Arry survive. Perhaps a straight swap.
Then what would you all do if TP came back up with QPR or another club!!!!!
and we went down....
What? No chance? ahhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 24, 2013 12:12:15 GMT
I hope he does get a job elsewhere in the football league after because his managerial qualities will be there for all to see if he lands at some where like a Huddersfield or a Burnley, we'll see just how good he is with an average budget in an average league. Mate he had a below average playing squad, an average budget and wasn't even wanted by a fair chunk of his own fans for 3/4 years (AT STOKE). |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 12:12:35 GMT
Anyone else worried sick re someof the names touted Eddie Howe ! Hoddle,some bloke from PSG,the Neville brothers,MacLaren,Hughes e.t.c. Jeesus H note to self: don't look at this thread late at night. somone please post some sensible names please What's the point, you've already told us it's definitely going to be Stuart Pearce?  What's your suggestion LB? |
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 24, 2013 12:13:30 GMT
" someone please post some sensible names please "
They can't find a suitable candidate, that's the problem.
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 12:15:03 GMT
I hope he does get a job elsewhere in the football league after because his managerial qualities will be there for all to see if he lands at some where like a Huddersfield or a Burnley, we'll see just how good he is with an average budget in an average league. Mate he had a below average playing squad, an average budget and wasn't even wanted by a fair chunk of his own fans for 3/4 years (AT STOKE). He had a good boost by the chairman to get into this league and has been afforded the cock ups he keeps making in the transfer market since, he's a liability imo. "wasn't even wanted by a fair chunk of his own fans for 3/4 years (AT STOKE)." ---> He still isn't now! There is a reason nobody else comes in for Tony Pulis. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 12:15:28 GMT
All managers are ultimately judged on results. I want to enjoy the football again like everybody, but surely we can't just ditch a previously great manager at the first sign of trouble? If he can find away to create more chances and score more goals with more positive football, then isn't that what we all want? He's done it before and the changes that will take place in the squad this summer make it the perfect opportunity to do it again. I would actually give him the whole of next season, but if a relatively new team was struggling at Christmas I would accept that we would have to consider change to preserve our Premier League status. It isn't the first sign of trouble though Okey? Again, 12 wins out of 55. Since 2012 results have been on the whole poor, performances haven't been great since the end of the cup final season. There's no indication he could or wants to 'find a way'. He could have done it this season and chose not to. |
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Post by lordb on Apr 24, 2013 12:16:46 GMT
Anyone else worried sick re someof the names touted Eddie Howe ! Hoddle,some bloke from PSG,the Neville brothers,MacLaren,Hughes e.t.c. Jeesus H note to self: don't look at this thread late at night. somone please post some sensible names please What's the point, you've already told us it's definitely going to be Stuart Pearce? - only if Peter Coates is chosing,appears that won't be the case - What's your suggestion LB? I would suggest we all take a holiday on the moon till August & tehn come back & hopefully find we have appointed someone decent (or stuck with TP) If that report that JOHN Coates has been in talks with Eddie Howe is true then that is terryfying smacks of low budget stuff to me. |
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 12:17:05 GMT
" someone please post some sensible names please " They can't find a suitable candidate, that's the problem. You couldn't make this up, there are loads mate the difficulty is not finding one but finding the best one. Just out of interest What do you think of Sven Eriksson & his singing and dancing C.V? |
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Post by Danstoke82 on Apr 24, 2013 12:17:52 GMT
All managers are ultimately judged on results. I want to enjoy the football again like everybody, but surely we can't just ditch a previously great manager at the first sign of trouble? If he can find away to create more chances and score more goals with more positive football, then isn't that what we all want? He's done it before and the changes that will take place in the squad this summer make it the perfect opportunity to do it again. I would actually give him the whole of next season, but if a relatively new team was struggling at Christmas I would accept that we would have to consider change to preserve our Premier League status. Another whole season of hoping things "drop" for us, getting the "breaks" and needing a bit of "luck?" No thanks mate. If we survive this season then we have been fortunate to the overall wankness of two teams holding two of the bottom three spots pretty much all season. Next season could be much more difficult, Pulis I feel will not change so to take this kind of form into a new season would be utter madness. We cannot bumble on being "little old Stoke" as Pulis constantly portrays us as, we could be so much better than that, the potential is there and the players have the ability, just like at WBA this season under Clarke, he's really got them going with a bit of ambition, signed the right players (Lukaku, Long etc) and developed a system that is new and works for them. He seems to have turned them from a mid-table/relegation fighter club into one that could challenge the top 8 or 10. Those traits are no longer in Pulis's locker. He doesnt have the mindset to push us on like WBA have done, like Swansea have done. He has one goal, keeping us up, consistently being the underdog and to respect whoever we come up against. We will reach the 40 point mark and then whatever else is a bonus, he has no idea what too do when we reached his target and this season we are limping even towards that. I for one and sick and tired of this constant "underdog" tag and when he bleats on about "look where we have come from" garbage. Wigan, Swansea, Fulham etc came from the depths of the football league to where they are now but do you hear their managers constantly reverting to this fact? they don't because they don't need too. That's their history and this is their now. I for one remember the long night games against the likes of Wrexham, Walsall and Luton, but right now, I dont want to remember them because I want to think about us against the likes of the Manchester Clubs, Chelsea and Liverpool etc. Of course I am grateful for what Peter Coates and his family have done but do I, as a fan, need to be reminded of that fact in almost all of Pulis's press conferences and interviews?. He has near zero ability to look forward because he cannot bring himself to try and adapt to where the game is at now and thats becoming embarrassing. He's a safety mid-table manager, we were fortunate during the promotion year as we had a squad who just clicked perfectly. Mama and Ric up top, Hendrie in the early months adding some guile to the midfield. Ryan and Leon Cort solid at the back and of course Lenny and Cresswell scoring from the wings. Premier League wise it was effective for the first two seasons, we were expecting it and it worked, it kept us safe in this league it's all what wanted, it was part of the big plan, survive for the first few seasons and then really push on. The Cup Final run was amazing, we thought we had turned a corner but then came Valencia away and the rest was history as before us stood the old Tony Pulis, the one who struggled to adapt, threw in the white flag. We are better than that,we have better players in our squad than the first two seasons but Pulis's constant disregard of their talents is making us witness what we are viewing today on the pitch. He's now stifling us and the team are being held back, Fans put up with the constant jibes and digs for football pundits and purists, now we are struggling to defend the man, his management team and his baffling remarks and decisions. Another season of this and god knows what will happen. |
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 24, 2013 12:17:53 GMT
" someone please post some sensible names please " They can't find a suitable candidate, that's the problem. Why do you persist on making things up? There are managers out of work, let alone in work with records far superior to the current manager. That's a FACT. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 12:20:37 GMT
What's the point, you've already told us it's definitely going to be Stuart Pearce? - only if Peter Coates is chosing,appears that won't be the case - What's your suggestion LB? I would suggest we all take a holiday on the moon till August & tehn come back & hopefully find we have appointed someone decent (or stuck with TP) If that report that JOHN Coates has been in talks with Eddie Howe is true then that is terryfying smacks of low budget stuff to me. Who might that 'decent' somebody be though given you've pooh-poohed all the realistic options? Do you see TP rediscovering his touch after two turgid campaigns? I wouldn't want Eddie Howe either and can't see why he'd want it after leaving Burnley (where he wasn't pulling up too many trees) to go back to Bournemouth. |
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Post by stockportstokie on Apr 24, 2013 12:20:41 GMT
On the brink? He arrived in November not late April for gawd sake. He also left the club in a state first time round, just 12 first team players wasn't it? I''d hazard a guess it was the £100m that established us in the PL. Yes we were 'on the brink' because we were a bloody awful team looking certain relegation fodder and were well installed as one of the favourites to go down (rightly so). He steadied the ship, bringing in loan players and organizing us into a 'team' that could survive. From that point it has been nothing but upward under Pulis and he only got any significant funds to make a real challenge in our promotion season. He also had his tenure hampered and then terminated by some of the games the Icelanders played and still managed to get us back on a forward track when he returned, despite many fans not wanting him back. Yes he's had good financial backing since promotion. So have many others that have failed. (Some of them being suggested as possible replacements). Let's take the facts as they are. Pulis delivered promotion and subsequent survival whilst enjoying the biggest budget of any manager in Stoke City history. The state of affairs, as of today is that after £100m spent, we have a squad that is in dire need of surgery if we are to reverse our indisputable regression. If the regression is to continue then next season we'll do very well to not get relegated, which sort of does away with the established line trotted out by certain rimmers. Counterfactuality is interesting, if we had a proper manager employed in that duration we would have achieved far more given the money spent. We would also have put together a squad that could consistently achieve a top 10 finish, thereby establishing ourselves in the PL. It is a fact Pulis' achievements have been surpassed by managers who have operated under a smaller budget. Taking all the facts into account, it deduces a theory that there are a plethora of managers who could improve upon Pulis' failing tenure at this club. The longer rimmers continue to bury their heads in the sand, the quicker our regression will unfold. As the saying goes - everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts. |
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Post by lordb on Apr 24, 2013 12:21:27 GMT
" someone please post some sensible names please " They can't find a suitable candidate, that's the problem. You couldn't make this up, there are loads mate the difficulty is not finding one but finding the right one. Just out of interest What do you think of Sven Eriksson & his singing and dancing C.V? His time is clearly past however there have been worse names touted. I'm worried that a large section of our support appear to EXPECT a 'top' manager such as Benitez or a top prospect such as Zola to be our next manager when it seems to me that SCFC are quite capeable (if indeed quite likely) to appoint absolutley anyone with a pulse We really could end up with someone completely shyte |
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 24, 2013 12:25:20 GMT
To play devils advocate, why wouldn't Eddie Howe be incapable of managing Stoke City? You're not allowed to say experience as that means jack shit.
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