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Post by geoff321 on Apr 23, 2013 16:59:57 GMT
This maybe a good discussion, but it's a pointless one. David Moyes won't become Stoke manager. If you look at all the names that have been put forward, virtually no two fans think the same. The reason is there is no outstanding candidate to replace Pulis.
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Post by ohbottom on Apr 23, 2013 17:00:15 GMT
I think when you look at QPR and players on massive contracts you will find that they were on massive contracts because they sold their soles for a more than possible relegation. Why else do you sign for a Bottom of the League club if it's not for over inflated wages. The aim would be to make Stoke an attractive place to come (League standing & manager) and buy sensibly with players towards the end of their contracts who are not in the position to hold you to Ransom, simply because we would not be in the desperate position to need to pay it. Common Sense really. It's all so simple! I cannot believe no premier league manager has thought of this! Well done Sandbankskid, when this brilliant new strategy becomes common knowledge it will be the biggest economic revolution in footballing history......
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 23, 2013 17:02:09 GMT
Well we'd soon find out if we tried to sign any one of about 8 of them mate. My bet is, we couldn't afford the wages they want, the length of contract on that sort of money or (least importantly) the transfer fee. Don't believe all the crap you hear about poor little Everton. They are a big club and will be paying good wages (well in excess of ours). They have paid good money for players several times but just can't compete with those who are prepared to pay more, and more often. We have signed 2 players, one for more than £8M and one for £8M, one of which we don't feel the need to play so we can't be that skint. Both come from Spurs who are renowned for a massive wage compared to ours. Also, again this is before the increased revenue which is going to double. Indeed, one of them will have been money dropped down a drain and the other will be millions of pounds loss to us IF he moves. Hence Mr Coates proclaiming this policy unsustainable, and he's right.
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 23, 2013 17:02:29 GMT
I think when you look at QPR and players on massive contracts you will find that they were on massive contracts because they sold their soles for a more than possible relegation. Why else do you sign for a Bottom of the League club if it's not for over inflated wages. The aim would be to make Stoke an attractive place to come (League standing & manager) and buy sensibly with players towards the end of their contracts who are not in the position to hold you to Ransom, simply because we would not be in the desperate position to need to pay it. Common Sense really. It's all so simple! I cannot believe no premier league manager has thought of this! Well done Sandbankskid, when this brilliant new strategy becomes common knowledge it will be the biggest economic revolution in footballing history...... 100 times better than QPR's, at least the club doesn't go down the pan with it.
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Post by Gods on Apr 23, 2013 17:02:36 GMT
Pretty sure I saw some numbers showing Everton's wage bill is quite a bit higher than ours but I don't have time to look them up.
Also they have been at this top-flight thing since the early 1950's or nearly 70 concecutive years with all the money which has gone along with that so they have quite a few in place already which we are trying to build like a good squad, a large fanbase, training facilities, youth program etc.
All said they are a far bigger deal than us.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 23, 2013 17:03:36 GMT
I think when you look at QPR and players on massive contracts you will find that they were on massive contracts because they sold their soles for a more than possible relegation. Why else do you sign for a Bottom of the League club if it's not for over inflated wages. The aim would be to make Stoke an attractive place to come (League standing & manager) and buy sensibly with players towards the end of their contracts who are not in the position to hold you to Ransom, simply because we would not be in the desperate position to need to pay it. Common Sense really. It's all so simple! I cannot believe no premier league manager has thought of this! Well done Sandbankskid, when this brilliant new strategy becomes common knowledge it will be the biggest economic revolution in footballing history...... But don't expect any quality players to actually want to sign for you to save disappointment.
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 23, 2013 17:04:40 GMT
This maybe a good discussion, but it's a pointless one. David Moyes won't become Stoke manager. If you look at all the names that have been put forward, virtually no two fans think the same. The reason is there is no outstanding candidate to replace Pulis. I'd be a better option than Pulis mate and so would a whole lot more Stoke fans, I honestly think I could achieve more points than Pulis has since Christmas with the squad he has available. Our recent form is beyond a joke mate.
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 23, 2013 17:09:39 GMT
It's all so simple! I cannot believe no premier league manager has thought of this! Well done Sandbankskid, when this brilliant new strategy becomes common knowledge it will be the biggest economic revolution in footballing history...... But don't expect any quality players to actually want to sign for you to save disappointment. It depends what you mean by Quality mate, there is plenty of Quality to be found overseas for modest Salaries that they themselves would class as good if only you are prepared to look for it. Successfully find these and Mix this in with one, two or three big earners (established Premiership Quality like Fulham and Berbatov for example) and you are onto a winner. No-one is suggesting all your players have to be earning £70k a week, far from it. You are all still warped in world Pulis where all players are signed from the over inflated Premiership Market. Wake up people wake up, it's just a bad dream!
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Post by digger on Apr 23, 2013 17:10:37 GMT
This maybe a good discussion, but it's a pointless one. David Moyes won't become Stoke manager. If you look at all the names that have been put forward, virtually no two fans think the same. The reason is there is no outstanding candidate to replace Pulis. I'd be a better option than Pulis mate and so would a whole lot more Stoke fans, I honestly think I could achieve more points than Pulis has since Christmas with the squad he has available. Our recent form is beyond a joke mate. (whiteflag)course you could
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 23, 2013 17:13:50 GMT
We have signed 2 players, one for more than £8M and one for £8M, one of which we don't feel the need to play so we can't be that skint. Both come from Spurs who are renowned for a massive wage compared to ours. Also, again this is before the increased revenue which is going to double. Indeed, one of them will have been money dropped down a drain and the other will be millions of pounds loss to us IF he moves. Hence Mr Coates proclaiming this policy unsustainable, and he's right. Tony Pulis' policies are the unsustainable part mate.
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Post by Bick on Apr 23, 2013 17:16:41 GMT
I cannot believe some of the reactions on here to Martinez!!
A proven premier league manager who is 100 times more tactically astute that our current manager who is used to working on a tight budget.
But you all want to try unproven managers who are far more likely to fail?!
And the talk of Benitez? Madness - he wouldn't come - we shouldn't want him.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 23, 2013 17:16:52 GMT
But don't expect any quality players to actually want to sign for you to save disappointment. It depends what you mean by Quality mate, there is plenty of Quality to be found overseas for modest Salaries that they themselves would class as good if only you are prepared to look for it. Successfully find these and Mix this in with one, two or three big earners (established Premiership Quality like Fulham and Berbatov for example) and you are onto a winner. No-one is suggesting all your players have to be earning £70k a week, far from it. You are all still warped in world Pulis where all players are signed from the over inflated Premiership Market. Wake up people wake up, it's just a bad dream! Mate, it's YOU who wanted us to spend £150 Million on transfers and to pay a king's randsom for David Moyes. If he leaves Everton it's because of their lack of spending power. Do you think he'd come here and look for cut-price bargains?
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 23, 2013 17:29:50 GMT
It depends what you mean by Quality mate, there is plenty of Quality to be found overseas for modest Salaries that they themselves would class as good if only you are prepared to look for it. Successfully find these and Mix this in with one, two or three big earners (established Premiership Quality like Fulham and Berbatov for example) and you are onto a winner. No-one is suggesting all your players have to be earning £70k a week, far from it. You are all still warped in world Pulis where all players are signed from the over inflated Premiership Market. Wake up people wake up, it's just a bad dream! Mate, it's YOU who wanted us to spend £150 Million on transfers and to pay a king's randsom for David Moyes. If he leaves Everton it's because of their lack of spending power. Do you think he'd come here and look for cut-price bargains? Obviously I am no Chief exec & club accountant but I do think £150M is sustainable over 5 years considering the t.v revenue alone would fetch £300M, the shrewd part is signing a manager on a very tidy wage that has the nouse of what to do with it. What we can not afford to do is to keep spending on players with little resale value on inflated Premiership wages which happens to be what Pulis is doing.
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 23, 2013 17:33:23 GMT
A good manager pays his wage time & time again his wages are a drop a drop in the ocean for the benefits said manager has to offer, a top manager should be classed as the biggest signing of all considering the money what is thrown around these days.
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 23, 2013 17:38:16 GMT
Having said all this I happen to think Steve MaClaren is also an ideal candidate.
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Post by mightymike on Apr 23, 2013 17:53:50 GMT
I cannot believe some of the reactions on here to Martinez!! A proven premier league manager who is 100 times more tactically astute that our current manager who is used to working on a tight budget. But you all want to try unproven managers who are far more likely to fail?! And the talk of Benitez? Madness - he wouldn't come - we shouldn't want him. 100 times? In that case why has he finished not finished higher than 15th in 3 seasons?
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Post by Danstoke82 on Apr 23, 2013 17:55:56 GMT
Thankfully? Seriously, are you thankful for what Pulis has brought us this season?? Please tell me your not eternally grateful for negative, square peg Pulisball. When the right players are playing, I enjoy watching the so called "Pulisball" just as much as I enjoy watching Brazil play. The signings of players like Peter Crouch (who does not fit our system, in my humble opinion) is one reason why the effectiveness of "Pulisball" began to descend about two years ago. Players like Kenwyne Jones and Jonathan Walters (when played in the hole), on the other hand, fits the system perfectly and when they are playing in their proper positions, we get the results. Jermaine Pennant's fall-out with Pulis and Matthew Etherington's "big drop" hasn't made the life of "Pulisball" easier in any way. We need two quick wingers, who can put a good ball into the box. Pennant could, in my opinion, cross the ball as good as anyone in the world a couple of years ago, and Matty was good enough to play for England when he was at his best in 2010/11. Now, our right winger is either Jon Walters or Ryan Shotton. None of them can cross a proper ball into the box, and none of them has the pace (or the skill for that matter) to beat their man. I know, we do have Michael Kightly (who has got some pace, but not the crossing-ability "Pulisball" desperately needs to work properly). But he is a right winger and he has showed that he can score as well, and that is why I can't believe we're not playing him more. He did play in the game against Liverpool on boxing-day (as did everyone who fit the system), and we played the best game of football we have played in two years. Begovic Cameron Huth Shawcross Wilkinson Kightly Whelan N'Zonzi Etherington Walters Jones Those are the lads who started against the game Liverpool on the 26th December 2012, and that is the team we should play with these last four games (except Wilson at left back and Wilko at right back, if Marc is fit). With that line-up, "Pulisball" has got every chance to be as enjoyable as it is watching Barca (or whoever you may like to watch) play, at least for us Stokies. Because, most of us enjoyed the 2010/11-season didn't we? "Pulisball" at its best! In the summer though, we've got to sign the right players who fits the system and sell the ones who doesn't. In my opinion, we should start off the window by selling Peter Crouch and sign a new winger who knows how to beat his man and cross the ball into the bloody box. Fair enough mate, good answer. If only he would revert back to that Liverpool team though eh!
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Post by Danstoke82 on Apr 23, 2013 17:59:20 GMT
Having said all this I happen to think Steve MaClaren is also an ideal candidate. Im not sure. Something doesnt sit right with me regarding McLaren and id be bitterly disappointed if Coates thought he was the man too take us forward. He wasnt very impressive at Forest. He had one decent europa campaign and somehow got Boro to the final and of course won the Eredivisie. Ever since then though hes gone horrendously bad and i wont even touch on his tenure as England manager, even though thats one of the toughest jobs out there right now.
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 23, 2013 18:03:38 GMT
I've only been on this site a few weeks but I already sense two things in the last few days. Firstly Stoke won't sack Tony Pulis and second the fierce calling for his dismissal has cooled dramatically since the win over QPR. If I am right I think Stoke will come back and be a force in the Premier League next season.
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Post by numpty40 on Apr 23, 2013 18:25:24 GMT
I agree with thesandbankskid. Moyes is a realistic option. He is clearly frustrated at Everton due to financial constraints and he's not going to land a job at one of the top 6 clubs as was confirmed by the appointment of AVB at Spurs!! I can see no reason why PC couldn't sell Stoke to Moyes. He could be given an agreed transfer budget which would be far in excess of anything Everton could offer and a successful couple of seasons at Stoke on top of what he's achieved at Everton would only be to his advantage. If he wants to manage abroad then noone outside the big 6 would make him change his mind, if not then we have a chance. Despite all that I still think Martinez is the best option!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2013 18:35:58 GMT
Moyes isn't going to take a backwards step from Everton to Stoke. It simply isn't going to happen.
Everton have some financial constraints but they're not destitute and have spent some fairly hefty fees on players in recent years. If he leaves, he'll be looking up, not down.
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Post by numpty40 on Apr 23, 2013 18:43:41 GMT
Moyes could be at the stage of his career where staying at Everton could be a backward step. Stoke have far more financial clout at this time and although it would be a massive gamble for Moyes he could achieve more at Stoke than he could at Everton. It would be down to individuals at Stoke to sell the vision!!
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Post by rawli on Apr 23, 2013 18:57:19 GMT
Whoever is appointed I'm sure Tony's supporters - the ones who call for unity and for us all to pull in the same direction for the good of the club - will back the new man to the hilt
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2013 19:04:28 GMT
Moyes could be at the stage of his career where staying at Everton could be a backward step. Stoke have far more financial clout at this time and although it would be a massive gamble for Moyes he could achieve more at Stoke than he could at Everton. It would be down to individuals at Stoke to sell the vision!! I don't buy this 'more financial clout' stuff. As a bigger club they're going to have more pull than us. They agreed a fee of around £9m for a player in January in a deal that only fell through due to a medical issue, and that was after bringing in the likes of Mirallas and Pienaar over the summer.Plus Coates has talked of reining in our spending and the perception of us is of a club stagnating, not going forward. Nobody with Moyes' reputation is going to leave a big club for a smaller one. It just doesn't happen.
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Post by digger on Apr 23, 2013 19:08:00 GMT
Whoever is appointed I'm sure Tony's supporters - the ones who call for unity and for us all to pull in the same direction for the good of the club - will back the new man to the hilt fuck that :-Sits pay back time moan moan anybody could get us to the cup final (zzz)keep passing sideways then back just fucking boot the ball
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Post by Bombus on Apr 23, 2013 19:18:35 GMT
When the right players are playing, I enjoy watching the so called "Pulisball" just as much as I enjoy watching Brazil play. The signings of players like Peter Crouch (who does not fit our system, in my humble opinion) is one reason why the effectiveness of "Pulisball" began to descend about two years ago. Players like Kenwyne Jones and Jonathan Walters (when played in the hole), on the other hand, fits the system perfectly and when they are playing in their proper positions, we get the results. Jermaine Pennant's fall-out with Pulis and Matthew Etherington's "big drop" hasn't made the life of "Pulisball" easier in any way. We need two quick wingers, who can put a good ball into the box. Pennant could, in my opinion, cross the ball as good as anyone in the world a couple of years ago, and Matty was good enough to play for England when he was at his best in 2010/11. Now, our right winger is either Jon Walters or Ryan Shotton. None of them can cross a proper ball into the box, and none of them has the pace (or the skill for that matter) to beat their man. I know, we do have Michael Kightly (who has got some pace, but not the crossing-ability "Pulisball" desperately needs to work properly). But he is a right winger and he has showed that he can score as well, and that is why I can't believe we're not playing him more. He did play in the game against Liverpool on boxing-day (as did everyone who fit the system), and we played the best game of football we have played in two years. Begovic Cameron Huth Shawcross Wilkinson Kightly Whelan N'Zonzi Etherington Walters Jones Those are the lads who started against the game Liverpool on the 26th December 2012, and that is the team we should play with these last four games (except Wilson at left back and Wilko at right back, if Marc is fit). With that line-up, "Pulisball" has got every chance to be as enjoyable as it is watching Barca (or whoever you may like to watch) play, at least for us Stokies. Because, most of us enjoyed the 2010/11-season didn't we? "Pulisball" at its best! In the summer though, we've got to sign the right players who fits the system and sell the ones who doesn't. In my opinion, we should start off the window by selling Peter Crouch and sign a new winger who knows how to beat his man and cross the ball into the bloody box. Fair enough mate, good answer. If only he would revert back to that Liverpool team though eh! Cheers mate, and yes indeed!
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Post by numpty40 on Apr 23, 2013 19:26:09 GMT
Moyes could be at the stage of his career where staying at Everton could be a backward step. Stoke have far more financial clout at this time and although it would be a massive gamble for Moyes he could achieve more at Stoke than he could at Everton. It would be down to individuals at Stoke to sell the vision!! I don't buy this 'more financial clout' stuff. As a bigger club they're going to have more pull than us. They agreed a fee of around £9m for a player in January in a deal that only fell through due to a medical issue, and that was after bringing in the likes of Mirallas and Pienaar over the summer.Plus Coates has talked of reining in our spending and the perception of us is of a club stagnating, not going forward. Nobody with Moyes' reputation is going to leave a big club for a smaller one. It just doesn't happen. The reason Moyes was able to bring in Mirallas was because Fellaini was at the club. Pienaar had been at the club previously and knew and trusted the manager. A better manager attracts better players, none of those mentioned signed for Everton because they expected to be challenging for the Champions League. They were young players with ambition that signed for a manager with ambition. Like I said, it's down to the club to sell their ambition!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2013 19:29:37 GMT
Moyes is not coming to Stoke.
Period.
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Post by owdestokie on Apr 23, 2013 19:31:01 GMT
"A good manager pays his wage time & time again his wages are a drop a drop in the ocean for the benefits said manager has to offer, a top manager should be classed as the biggest signing of all considering the money what is thrown around these days."
TP it is then
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Post by numpty40 on Apr 23, 2013 19:31:48 GMT
Moyes is not coming to Stoke. Period. I quite agree, but he could have done with a bit of ambition!!
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