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Feb 20, 2012 10:09:13 GMT
Post by oggyoggy on Feb 20, 2012 10:09:13 GMT
With our wingers so out of sorts or out of TP's good books right now, I think a change of shape could work v valencia and beyond. A central midfield 3 of whitehead and 2 others, and then 3 strikers of jerome, walters and crouch.
Jerome and walters can do the running, play all around the pitch and put their midfield/defence under immense pressure, crouch to keep winning the ball and hopefully jerome/walters to get on his flick ons.
Valencia will completely dominate the ball, so we need to push our full backs onto their wide players, and crowd the central midfield with our 3 so they have no time or space. Play on the break. Ric would also work well in this shape instead of walters as his hold up play is excellent.
Right now we are too predictable and easy to stop (double up on wingers). If nothing more, it will give our opposition something new to consider. It could work on swansea and norwich too, particularly swansea who again will look to monopolise the ball so we need to match their numbers in the middle and push our full backs on their wingers.
I know pulis has his very rigid system, but he has the option of an extra midfielder in the cage this way!
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433
Feb 20, 2012 10:11:05 GMT
Post by LH_SCFC on Feb 20, 2012 10:11:05 GMT
So the same starting formation as yesterday then?
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Feb 20, 2012 10:12:19 GMT
Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 20, 2012 10:12:19 GMT
we tried to start with a 4-3-1-2 formation yesterday if that is any help to you!
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433
Feb 20, 2012 10:18:56 GMT
Post by oggyoggy on Feb 20, 2012 10:18:56 GMT
yes against crawley, but id like to see pulis stick with it for a few games, and the drop etherington who has been awful this season. it might do him some good.
and not 4312, 433, or 4321
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Feb 20, 2012 10:22:57 GMT
Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 20, 2012 10:22:57 GMT
In TP's first full season in charge, we started the season v Derby away (what a win that was) with a 3-4-3 system so TP is capable of springing a surprise every now and then. Remember the line-up that day? I can't exactly but I do remember a front 3 of Asaba, Gifton, Greenacre. Now that would strike the fear of god into Valencia!
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Feb 20, 2012 10:47:01 GMT
Post by frodekippe on Feb 20, 2012 10:47:01 GMT
I'd love to see us go 4-3-3 with Jerome and Fuller playing off Crouchy or Kenwyne. I know it sounds like a daft comparison but if you watched Barcelona last night they showed that you need wide forwards who can stretch defenders out of position and for me Fuller and Jerome are our best two players for that sort of role. As much as Walters is full of running and more than willing to "put a shift in" he just doesn't have the pace or quality on the ball to really stretch people.
I'd go with Delap holding, Deano covering as much ground as possible and Whelan (hopefully) pulling the strings. Then I'd have Wilko and Shotts at full-back to provide more energy down the flanks. This would also provide the wingers with a much needed kick up the backside. Definitely something worth thinking about to stop us being so utterly dependent on the wingers playing well for us to have any sort of success.
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Feb 20, 2012 10:49:09 GMT
Post by ruts66 on Feb 20, 2012 10:49:09 GMT
I paid really close attention to how Valencia set up their defence against us last week.
We all saw how they quickly learned to double up on our wingers and in doing so split their centre halves into almost full back positions at times.
Just how big was that massive gap down the centre at times?
With our two wingers largely occupying four of their players and compromising the central pairing the game was absolutely made for Fuller and Jerome to tear down the centre channels.
These two must play up front together at some point and we might just get somewhere.
But, will Tone dare drop Crouch and Walters?
We can only hope he sees the opportunity...
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Feb 20, 2012 10:58:36 GMT
Post by redstriper on Feb 20, 2012 10:58:36 GMT
hmm, no place in the team for pennant then ?.... our most creative player by a country mile.
nb) he isn't out of sorts, he is getting the TP cold shoulder.
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Feb 20, 2012 11:10:41 GMT
Post by oggyoggy on Feb 20, 2012 11:10:41 GMT
also valencia looked lethal coming forward down the flanks because their full backs push on, if we had wide forwards it would push them backwards and they wouldn't be so daring going forward.
I agree, no place for pennant is not great, but he could play an attacking wide role too, or even as a more mobile and creative central midfielder, instead of whelen 'pulling the strings'.
I honestly think we have the players to play this system well, and don't have enough cover for wingers to stick with 442 every week (or 4411).
we need to change it up to halt our form and predictability.
a fully fit ric and jerome terrorising defences down the flanks would be superb to see in my opinion.
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Feb 20, 2012 11:15:08 GMT
Post by rabbigan on Feb 20, 2012 11:15:08 GMT
There is a lot of sense in what you suggest Oggy. I actually think playing against a side like Valencia would suit Fuller. I would most definitely start with him as one of the three.
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Feb 20, 2012 11:28:15 GMT
Post by redstriper on Feb 20, 2012 11:28:15 GMT
I'm not spending £500 to watch us try (and fail) to park the bus.... Pennant has to play, he even has the spanish experience. Realistically we are massive underdogs, but that means if we pulled it off it would rank as one of the clubs finest hours.
If he doesn't I'm certain he will be off at the end of the season, probably to be replaced with another work aard journeyman, and my season ticket will not be renewed.
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Feb 20, 2012 11:29:03 GMT
Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 20, 2012 11:29:03 GMT
I've been banging on for ages that if you play 4-4-1-1, then you can't have pace up top AND a man in the hole AND Peter Crouch in the same team because 3 into 2 doesn't go.
Of course you can play 4-3-1-2 (as we did yesterday) in order to get all three elements in there but obviously that means losing your wingers.
I'd rather lose one of the three elements and keep the wingers on the pitch, or we really are going to be resorting to the most direct form of offensive play known to man.
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Feb 20, 2012 11:39:31 GMT
Post by gnosallpotter on Feb 20, 2012 11:39:31 GMT
I think to be honest Pulis picked the right team to do the job yesterday. The whole team were old pro's bar Shotton that knew what to do to match Crawley's game. It was a horrible game of almost zero quality.
Playing the two wingers on that small pitch would have been pointless. Plus both of them being pansies they would probably have picked up a knock! Good tactics from TP, glad I didn't go to the game though, almost fell asleep watching it on tv...
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Feb 20, 2012 11:42:46 GMT
Post by redstriper on Feb 20, 2012 11:42:46 GMT
They deal with diamonds, and players like ric and jerome every week. Long throws, good crosses and Peter Crouch are more likely to make them uncomfortable. Pennant is the best supply line.
We have a very slim chance and by playing an unfamilar system it will get reduced to none.
We were all over the place with that front three against division one Crawley. the midfield were tripping over each other until the referee inadvertently sorted it our for us.
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Feb 20, 2012 11:44:29 GMT
Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 20, 2012 11:44:29 GMT
I think to be honest Pulis picked the right team to do the job yesterday. The whole team were old pro's bar Shotton that knew what to do to match Crawley's game. It was a horrible game of almost zero quality. Playing the two wingers on that small pitch would have been pointless. Plus both of them being pansies they would probably have picked up a knock! Good tactics from TP, glad I didn't go to the game though, almost fell asleep watching it on tv... Agree with all of that - I thought TP got it spot on yesterday. However if he's decided that playing without wingers and going 4-3-1-2 is the way forward in the Prem (which is the sort of thing the OP was suggesting) then I'll be more than a little concerned.
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Feb 20, 2012 11:49:12 GMT
Post by potterpaul on Feb 20, 2012 11:49:12 GMT
hmm, no place in the team for pennant then ?.... our most creative player by a country mile. nb) he isn't out of sorts, he is getting the TP cold shoulder. I would say thats a myth or, if you are correct, its very, very sad because JP as been poor overall this season barring one or two decent spells. He is still our best option on the wing and when played there the best you could say he offers is balance which we have lacked when he's been sat on the bench. His delivery as been generally poor also but I'm hoping this is due to fucking about TP insists on. Theres still only one player in the team who possesses strength and enough skill on the ball to successfully get behind a defence and that is Ric.
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Feb 20, 2012 12:01:03 GMT
Post by redstriper on Feb 20, 2012 12:01:03 GMT
hmm, no place in the team for pennant then ?.... our most creative player by a country mile. nb) he isn't out of sorts, he is getting the TP cold shoulder. I would say thats a myth or, if you are correct, its very, very sad because JP as been poor overall this season barring one or two decent spells. He is still our best option on the wing and when played there the best you could say he offers is balance which we have lacked when he's been sat on the bench. His delivery as been generally poor also but I'm hoping this is due to fucking about TP insists on. Theres still only one player in the team who possesses strength and enough skill on the ball to successfully get behind a defence and that is Ric. It's all about opinions, but from my seat he's provided a lot more quality than the rest. Ric gives the crowd a lift but do you really think he is still the player of two seasons ago ?
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