Panorama at 8.30 what a disgrace

[lordeffinghamhunt]

They will be trying to show our soldiers in a bad light even when the red cross and a team of investigators say that it isn't true!

[foals]

next weeks panorama exposes sooty and sweep as a pair of paedophiles. the spin that is put on such programmes is unreal. anybody can be made out to be a monster with only half a story.

[visunitafortior]

Refuse to wtch it after their disgraceful reporting of Germany 2006, hardly any trouble what so ever and yet they produce that trashy 'documentary' trying to make out like there was.

[serpico]

Some VERY disturbing allegations being made about some soldiers torturing and executing Iraqi's, I wouldn't worry though, the majority of the population will be watching the 2nd helping of Coronation street

[Premier League Busta Rhymes]

There really is no need for this programme. What they also don't tell you is the people who state they lost family members / who gave interviews and statements were also paid substantial sums

which = total bullshit false statements

[lordeffinghamhunt]

According to the red cross it was not true that they tortured anyone.

[Olgrligm]

serpico said:

Some VERY disturbing allegations being made about some soldiers torturing and executing Iraqi's, I wouldn't worry though, the majority of the population will be watching the 2nd helping of Coronation street

All soaps are crap so I won't be watching Coronation Street. I won't be watching Panorama either, though. Can you name one piece of balanced, professional journalism that they've produced? As much as I dislike Scientology, the BBC's efforts were so biased and cack-handed that it destroyed the point of the investigation. They were interviewing people on top of rooftops and such despite the BBC having plenty of studios in LA where the interviewees would have been safe from the Scientologists that were chasing after them. How about the 'bribes in football' one? They definitively proved that Harry Redknapp was corrupt by recording him saying to an agent 'I like that Lucas Neill, he's good'.

Prepare for epic disappointment.

[serpico]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/army-chief-warnings-over-iraqi-civilian-deaths-were-ignored-786550.html

[Scanner]

Just another example of the poor standard of journalism in this country.

Makes you wonder if Bin laden isn't hiding away in the guise of this programs producer!

[serpico]

stokiepaul72 said:

Just another example of the poor standard of journalism in this country.

Makes you wonder if Bin laden isn't hiding away in the guise of this programs producer!

Your right Bin Laden would love for us to torture people, it's a great rallying call for his cause and great for a recruitment drive.

[9737scfc]

I get sick of this all the time. I have just (last week) come back from the COB and in January alone we were subjected to 93 rocket attacks alon (most sourced from Iran). What do you see on TV?? nowt.

Glad I'm back, but, 5000 are still there doing a thankless task and only as rocket magnets (my opinion, and i've been 3 times).

Panorama and the Baghdad Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) have timed this non story (which the red cross and MOD have said didn't happen) to coincide with the imminent end of the militia ceasefire which ends on the 01 March. Do they not believe that the militia don't have this kind of shi'ite sent over to them??

Enough of the rant....can't wait until i come back from germmany and watch the blackpool game.

[Maccca100]

Panorama at 8.30 what a disgrace


i know same time as corrie.. bad scheduling

[serpico]

9737scfc said:

I get sick of this all the time. I have just (last week) come back from the COB and in January alone we were subjected to 93 rocket attacks alon (most sourced from Iran). What do you see on TV?? nowt.

Glad I'm back, but, 5000 are still there doing a thankless task and only as rocket magnets (my opinion, and i've been 3 times).

Panorama and the Baghdad Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) have timed this non story (which the red cross and MOD have said didn't happen) to coincide with the imminent end of the militia ceasefire which ends on the 01 March. Do they not believe that the militia don't have this kind of shi'ite sent over to them??

Enough of the rant....can't wait until i come back from germmany and watch the blackpool game.

When you say "sourced from Iran" what do you mean ? ... directly from the IRG ? ... if you have evidence that the Iranian government is sending weapons into Iraq I'd like to see it, because i don't believe it exists, because if it did George Bush and the chicken hawk neo-cons would have been shoving it down our throats along time ago because they're desperate to hit Iran.

[9737scfc]

serpico said:

9737scfc said:

I get sick of this all the time. I have just (last week) come back from the COB and in January alone we were subjected to 93 rocket attacks alon (most sourced from Iran). What do you see on TV?? nowt.

Glad I'm back, but, 5000 are still there doing a thankless task and only as rocket magnets (my opinion, and i've been 3 times).

Panorama and the Baghdad Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) have timed this non story (which the red cross and MOD have said didn't happen) to coincide with the imminent end of the militia ceasefire which ends on the 01 March. Do they not believe that the militia don't have this kind of shi'ite sent over to them??

Enough of the rant....can't wait until i come back from germmany and watch the blackpool game.

When you say "sourced from Iran" what do you mean ? ... directly from the IRG ? ... if you have evidence that the Iranian government is sending weapons into Iraq I'd like to see it, because i don't believe it exists, because if it did George Bush and the chicken hawk neo-cons would have been shoving it down our throats along time ago because they're desperate to hit Iran.

Not going to get in a slanging match, just take it from me and if you would like speak to any other sldr who has been to the cob in the past 12 months and ask them the question. I've seen the casing that is left from these things (after being downed ;D). But, i'm only a lower rank and obviously the powers that be don't want to stir up a hornets nest with iran. Maybe one day soon we shall see and hear a different picture, but, i presume the time is not right??

[serpico]

9737scfc said:

serpico said:

When you say "sourced from Iran" what do you mean ? ... directly from the IRG ? ... if you have evidence that the Iranian government is sending weapons into Iraq I'd like to see it, because i don't believe it exists, because if it did George Bush and the chicken hawk neo-cons would have been shoving it down our throats along time ago because they're desperate to hit Iran.

Not going to get in a slanging match, just take it from me and if you would like speak to any other sldr who has been to the cob in the past 12 months and ask them the question. I've seen the casing that is left from these things (after being downed ;D). But, i'm only a lower rank and obviously the powers that be don't want to stir up a hornets nest with iran. Maybe one day soon we shall see and hear a different picture, but, i presume the time is not right??

I wasn't actually looking for a slanging match but let me assure you if there was evidence that the Iranian government is sending weapons into Iraq we would have heard about it by now, the Bush admin have been itching for a casus belli to strike Iran for ages now, a strike on Iran is something which now looks unlikely after the recent national intelligence estimate stated that Iran halted it's weapons program in 2003, so if this were true they'd be bellowing it from the roof of the white house.

[mumf14]

Serpico...The whole bloody world knows that Iran has been supplying weapons.I've seen American,French and Canadian news footage and programmes regarding this precise subject.

It is wrong to claim that the Americans don't know or haven't got the proof...If they had desired to attack IRAN they would have.

[serpico]

mumf14 said:

Serpico...The whole bloody world knows that Iran has been supplying weapons.I've seen American,French and Canadian news footage and programmes regarding this precise subject.

It is wrong to claim that the Americans don't know or haven't got the proof...If they had desired to attack IRAN they would have.

Ok firstly i wouldn't trust anything from American main stream media, secondly what you've heard is the likes of Bush say "weapons from Iran", they do not specify or give any evidence what so ever that the Iranian government or IRG is supplying the weapons, as i have said, if the Bush admin had evidence of this you would know about it by now, and i mean ACTUAL evidence and not just someone saying "weapons from Iran" and backing it up with nothing.

I have no doubt weapons are coming over the boarder from Iran, Im not disputing that, so far Ive seen absolutely no credible evidence that Iran is supplying weapons to insurgents, ... and i mean real evidence, not just hyperbole from neo-cons warmongers.

[mumf14]

Serpico...I'm pleased to see that you agree that weapons are undoubtedly being brought over from Iran into Iraq and I'm also pretty sure that the Americans have tangible proof of this.

I'm also pretty sure that America is also aware of what would be at stake if further hostilities were to ensue,hence their obvious reluctance to further enrage any other middle eastern countries in strikes against Iran.Diplomatic pressure seems to be holding the precarious balance at the moment which is obviously the way forward.

Long may it continue.

[serpico]

mumf14 said:

Serpico...I'm pleased to see that you agree that weapons are undoubtedly being brought over from Iran into Iraq and I'm also pretty sure that the Americans have tangible proof of this.

Just like the "tangible proof" that Iraq had WMD's and ties with Al Qeada 9/11 ?... also just because weapons come from over the Iranian boarder that doesn't mean the Iranian government is supplying the weapons, the evidence for that just does not exist. The majority of suicide bombers in Iraq come from Saudi arabia, that doesn't mean the saudi government are sending them there does it ?

I'm also pretty sure that America is also aware of what would be at stake if further hostilities were to ensue,hence their obvious reluctance to further enrage any other middle eastern countries in strikes against Iran

Don't want to sound patronizing but you obviously know nothing about Dick Cheney and the neo-cons, there are certain influential factions within the current Bush admin who would love nothing more than to start a war with Iran and are now actively looking for a pre text to strike at Iran militarily, if they had evidence which would convince Americans and the rest of the world that Iran is directly supplying weapons to Iraqi insurgents they wouldn't be shy in telling the world about it, so far they've not given any evidence of this.

Diplomatic pressure seems to be holding the precarious balance at the moment which is obviously the way forward Long may it continue.

The US is not open to diplomacy with Iran, they want regime change -

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5377914.stm

Surprise overture

Another potential opening came in May 2003.

America's swift march to Baghdad the previous month had led to fears in Tehran that it would be next.

So Tehran made a dramatic - but surprisingly little known - approach to the Americans.

Iran's offer came in the form of a letter, although Iranian diplomats have suggested that their letter was in turn a response to a set of talking points that had come from US intermediaries.

In it, Iran appeared willing to put everything on the table - including being completely open about its nuclear programme, helping to stabilise Iraq, ending its support for Palestinian militant groups and help in disarming Hezbollah.


I believe the nuclear issue could have been resolved long time ago
Javad Zarif, Iran ambassador
What did Iran want? Top of the list was a halt in US hostile behaviour and a statement that "Iran did not belong to 'the axis of evil'".

The letter was the product of an internal debate inside Tehran and had the support of leaders at the highest level.

"That letter went to the Americans to say that we are ready to talk, we are ready to address our issues," explains Seyed Adeli, who was then a deputy foreign minister in Iran. But in Washington, the letter was ignored.

Larry Wilkerson, who was then chief of staff to US Secretary of State Colin Powell, thinks that was a big mistake.

"In my mind it was one of those things you throw up in the air and say I can't believe we did this."

He says the hardliners who stood against dialogue had a memorable refrain. "We don't speak to evil".

[mumf14]

Serpico...Calm down....Your assumptions and conclusions appear very one sided and biased.

I dread to think what would have happened if the U.S.A hadn't been bombed by the Japanese at Pearl Harbour.

[serpico]

mumf14 said:

Serpico...Calm down....Your assumptions and conclusions appear very one sided and biased.
.

Im not the one making assumptions.

Im not a fan of Ahmedinejad, he's an idiot who holds no power over Irans foreign policy, he likes to say inflammatory things, he's like a gift sent from heaven to the regime changer neo-cons in washington, but there is no evidence the Iranian government are supplying weapons in Iraq, also even if Iran had nuclear weapons they wouldn't be a threat to either the UK or US, they'd be a threat to Israel, which is what this is partly all about, it's what Iraq was partly about, the protections of Israel. Iran is a 3rd world country, they pose absolutely no threat to us or the US.

[mumf14]

Serpico....Yes , and would you like to expand on why Israel was formed after the second World War..

Would you like to explain the reasons behind the Jews 'regrouping' in Israel..?

We should not take a particular 'snap-shot' in time, namely the last ten years in order to justify World peace or forget how important the lessons of allowing a world dictator to tighten his evil grip on other countries..(ie Hitler and his determined extermination of the Jewish race.)

It's easy to forget how evil dictators can cause massive problems for world peace...Saddam being a particularly good example...Bin Laden another..

[Willie Nelson]

What proof would you like?

So far you don't trust a British Service man with direct experience, the news or any western government? You know how controlled society is in Iran then you know that hundreds/thousands of rockets don't travel around and out of the country without someone official knowing. I think Iran is supplying weapons as it is in their interest to have a weak Iraq or one which they can influence at a later date. You think they are going to publicise this? I'm sure you would like to see Ahmadinejad and Khamenei toasting another shipment crossing the iraqi border on google earth. But sadly its not going to happen.

[Tony Clueless]

I saw it. Funny how most of the people that were interviewed were in the process of suing our Government! BBC=Wankers

I'm forced to pay for this shight too

[serpico]

mumf14 said:

It's easy to forget how evil dictators can cause massive problems for world peace...Saddam being a particularly good example...Bin Laden another..

I agree, and we should stop putting them in power and propping them up, this on/off again relationships with middle eastern dictators does us no good what so ever, it causes huge anger towards us from the people who have to live under our puppet dictators like Saddam and the Shah of Iran, both of whom we helped into power and helped them maintain power, thats a historical documented FACT, the CIA was backing Saddam and the Baa'th party as far back as the late 50's, and we armed him to the teeth in the 80's. We were eve once allied and supporting the Mujahdeen and Osama Bin laden for awhile.

[serpico]

abegoodwin said:

What proof would you like?

Something that would prove the Iranian GOVERNMENT were directly sending weapons into Iraq would be nice, as i have already said, if the US had actual evidence of this it'd be all over the news, the fact it isn't speaks volumes.

So far you don't trust a British Service man with direct experience, the news or any western government?

I don't trust main stream media no, i prefer alternative news outlets.

You know how controlled society is in Iran then you know that hundreds/thousands of rockets don't travel around and out of the country without someone official knowing.

Were not talking huge rockets here, these are small IED's.

I think Iran is supplying weapons as it is in their interest to have a weak Iraq or one which they can influence at a later date. You think they are going to publicise this? I'm sure you would like to see Ahmadinejad and Khamenei toasting another shipment crossing the iraqi border on google earth. But sadly its not going to happen.

I don't think Iran needs to weaken Iraq anymore than it is, the US have done a preety good job of bringing it to it's knees by themselves and as a result Iran has grown and become the main power in the region.

video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3396626851746723317&q=noam+chomsky+iran&total=135&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7

[9737scfc]

Were not talking huge rockets here, these are small IED's.

I'd like to ask you one question, have you seen just how big a 122mm rocket is? Obviously not as this is the favoured rocket of choice, say about 4 feet long and quite heavy. obviously not something you can hide under a dish dash!!

[serpico]

Look, if the Iranian government was knowingly supplying these weapons and there was evidence of this then the neo-conservative clique in the white house would have been announcing it at every opportunity, they're desperate to hit Iran before Bush leaves office, because as it stands now Bush's legacy is going to be a disaster in Iraq and as a subsequence the rise of Iran as a major player in the region, but the evidence they have shown does not show Iranian government complicity in attacks on coalition troops inside Iraq, there is some evidence to suggest weapons have come in from over the Iranian boarder, but thats as far as it goes. To think that the Bush admin is sitting on this evidence because they don't want to inflame Iran is laughable, they'd love nothing more than to have the goods on Iran so they could hit them, why do you think the US have a fleet of air craft carriers on the coast of Iran ? they're saber rattling them and trying to manipulate something akin to the gulf of tonkin incident to use as a pre text for war.

[fatterthanparkin]

I find this rather ridiculous - the accusations were investigated by the Military Police, Parliament and a number of Human Rights Groups, all of which failed to undercover any basis for these stories.

Incidentally, do you really think that these explosives are going to arrive in Iraq, wrapped in official seals of the Iranian Govt? It's been known for a LONG time that these materials are arriving in over the border from Iran, the difficulty in stoping it lies in the sheer length of the border divide between Iran and Iraq.

[Deleted]

Don’t see what the big fuss is, war isn’t supposed to be all fun and games.