|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2008 14:38:49 GMT
There’s no “reasons” for doing what they do. There’s no “reasons” for 9/11.
No reasons that can be understood as you say.
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Feb 20, 2008 14:41:24 GMT
There’s no “reasons” for doing what they do. There’s no “reasons” for 9/11. No reasons that can be understood as you say. eh ? so 19 blokes just boarded planes one day and flew them into buildings for no reason ?
|
|
|
Post by TheDee51 on Feb 20, 2008 14:44:05 GMT
It said in The Sun that they were just bad pilots ;D
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2008 14:44:16 GMT
No worthy reason. If you draw a cartoon of there god the fanatics want you beheaded.
Yeah, they’re right, lets kill everyone for any reason whatsoever.
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Feb 20, 2008 14:48:00 GMT
No worthy reason. If you draw a cartoon of there god the fanatics want you beheaded. Yeah, they’re right, lets kill everyone for any reason whatsoever. So in your opinion our and the US's foreign policy has NOTHING to do with it ? nothing at all ? they will tolerate being bombed occupied and starved etc but it's the cartoons which is the ultimate motivating factor ?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2008 14:50:12 GMT
No, not the only factor. If you call a teddy “Mohammed” they’re after your head as well. I can appreciate why you understand there reasons for wanting to kill everyone now.
|
|
|
Post by soicowboy on Feb 20, 2008 14:55:52 GMT
I MEAN WHAT IS THE BLOODY POINT!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Feb 20, 2008 15:00:27 GMT
No, not the only factor. If you call a teddy “Mohammed” they’re after your head as well. I can appreciate why you understand there reasons for wanting to kill everyone now. Again we're talking about different groups, that rubbish about teddies and stuff has been going on for years, became prominent in the 80's under Koemani but there has never been a suicide bomber who's cited a cartoon or a teddy bear as the reason for attacking, however i have heard them cite our unwavering support for Israel, Sanctions, bombing campaigns, coups, installing dictators, occupation etc etc etc ... I recommended this book before it's by a leading researcher of Suicide bombings called "dying to win (why terrorists doit) ", it's a study of suicide bombings from as far back as around 1980 and it concludes that the large majority of suicide bombings are motivated by occupations of foreign armies in there countries. this book is not an opinion piece, it's a study and contains stone cold facts- www.amazon.co.uk/Dying-Win-Why-Suicide-Terrorists/dp/1903933781/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203519701&sr=8-1
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2008 15:29:02 GMT
I’m not reading anything that tries to justify what they do. Enough people are being brainwashed as it is.
I have my own views and won’t have others forced upon me which is what they try to do to everyone else, either that or kill them.
I much prefer our freedom and democracy compared to the way they choose to live there lives (oppression, coercion etc).
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Feb 20, 2008 15:43:13 GMT
I’m not reading anything that tries to justify what they do. Enough people are being brainwashed as it is. There is a distinct difference between justifying what they're doing and understanding the motivations of why they do it. It's slightly more complex than "we're good they're evil".
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2008 15:50:26 GMT
Listen Serps, you obviously know a whole lot more than me on this whole situation and I admit to forming opinions mainly on what I see in the news and on the TV (and I also admit to being a Sun reader!! ) but I can’t ever see us having the same views on this. I admit news can be (or should that be “is”) filtered/controlled/manipulated, or whatever you wish to call it, for certain agenda’s but I can’t ever see me giving up the time to research it further. Ignorance is bliss!!
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Feb 20, 2008 16:02:56 GMT
Listen Serps, you obviously know a whole lot more than me on this whole situation and I admit to forming opinions mainly on what I see in the news and on the TV (and I also admit to being a Sun reader!! ) but I can’t ever see us having the same views on this. I admit news can be (or should that be “is”) filtered/controlled/manipulated, or whatever you wish to call it, for certain agenda’s but I can’t ever see me giving up the time to research it further. Ignorance is bliss!! Fair enough mate, .... if you can't be assed to read a book then maybe listen to this interview with the author, well worth a listen- www.weekendinterviewshow.com/InterviewDisplay.aspx?i=114
|
|
|
Post by soicowboy on Feb 20, 2008 16:04:28 GMT
How about playing this
|
|
|
Post by TheDee51 on Feb 20, 2008 16:05:58 GMT
Serpico - why would anybody bother to read/listen to anything that is explaining why suicide bombers do what they do?
Do you think we are all waiting to be told the truth so we can then say "Ah, I see now, they are totally right to be blowing bits out of the world, now I understand"
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Feb 20, 2008 16:19:57 GMT
Serpico - why would anybody bother to read/listen to anything that is explaining why suicide bombers do what they do? Do you think we are all waiting to be told the truth so we can then say "Ah, I see now, they are totally right to be blowing bits out of the world, now I understand" Perhaps if we understood why they do it we can start to make some head way into stopping it, because our response since 9/11 has seen terrorism increase 10 fold and made us less safe, and also if people truly understood the reasons we are targeted then they wouldn't be so quick to support the politicians who take advantage of these attacks to further there agendas for war. But your right, why bother even trying to understand why it happens, lets continue to bomb the brown people and hope it just goes away.
|
|
|
Post by TheDee51 on Feb 20, 2008 16:24:47 GMT
[/quote]
But your right, why bother even trying to understand why it happens, lets continue to bomb the brown people and hope it just goes away.
[/quote]
well said. I agree with that.
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Feb 20, 2008 16:29:15 GMT
But your right, why bother even trying to understand why it happens, lets continue to bomb the brown people and hope it just goes away. [/quote] well said. I agree with that.[/quote] So does Bin laden.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Nelson on Feb 20, 2008 16:34:42 GMT
Soi...i was working in the desert i nearly started a diplomatic incident by taking a similar picture, i was hauled in front of the boss and told that it could lead them to be divorced as husbands could recognise rings and eyes and it is forbidden for another man to have such images. Went to work once (with women) with a hangover and sent home...was told that if busted with slight whiskey breath the men could turn up with AK's and at best have me deported, at worst?? Any ways...Serpico.. I think your view is just as tainted as a sun reader but from a different perspective. You cant see the issues beyond the moore film or chomsky book you are reading at the time of posting.
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Feb 20, 2008 16:40:50 GMT
Any ways...Serpico.. I think your view is just as tainted as a sun reader but from a different perspective. You cant see the issues beyond the moore film/ chomsky book you are reading at the time of posting. I don't like Michael Moore and Im reading 'web of deceit' by Marc Curtis, although i do have a couple of Chomsky books
|
|
|
Post by Willie Nelson on Feb 20, 2008 17:08:11 GMT
I read web of deceit. So,what is happening now seems to me like business as usual. So to act shocked at what we are now, is daft as we have always been the same and it created a wealthy country. Therefore if Britain did not have the foreign policy that it does (the same one we have had for at least a hundred years) what would the country be like? I'm from immigrant stock, so not a paid up BNP member, but as a realist....hey deep down i recognise the advantages of our course, rough with the smooth.
as a general lurker couldn't help throwing my hat in the ring..hell i may even come on and talk about football. (i'm full of 8percent guiness and canadian club so if it does not make sense and i look stupid i'll edit tomorrow.)
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Feb 20, 2008 17:47:36 GMT
Serpico, i agree with practically everything you've said.
To quote Al-ghuraba (a press influenced by Omar Bakri Muhammad, a leader in Al Qaeda) - as well as the perpetrators, the British government and public must take responsibility for the London bombings of 7/7. In particular the government for the ‘crusader’ wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, their support of ‘fascist’ Israel, their terrorizing of Muslims with their ‘war on terror’ and the belief that British values are superior to Muslim values. Al-Ghurabaa blames the British public for their silence towards the ‘brutal foreign policy of the Blair government against the Muslims all around the world since they publicly re-elected him despite the atrocities he has committed in Afghanistan and Iraq.’ it works both ways, british and US extremist foreign policy against extrmist suicide bombers. bombing iraq killed more innocent victims than 9/11, and probably more than every terrorist attack ever put together. it also created more terrorists than our 'way of life' could ever do.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Nelson on Feb 20, 2008 18:15:08 GMT
You are quoting a leader of al qaeda for an impartial/useful viewpoint??.....ridiculous. All the public are responsible and deserve terrorism.....bullshit, Within Britain are our values not more important? Muslim silence to 7/7??? You must accept that domestic policy has allowed internal muslim violence as a reaction to our foreign policy. As such i don't think the isolated/abstract talk of foreign policy in this thread has any credibility. The domestic and foreign are one and must be discussed as such as the thread title began discussing this problem.
Also please explain why muslims are bombing philipines or thailand or morroco or tunisia?
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Feb 20, 2008 19:19:27 GMT
yes i feel quoting a source which has al-qaeda influence is important. especially as it gives some reasons as to why certain things have happened it this country. perhaps if we did not do the things spoken about in that quote, london would not have been bombed. i in fact agree with the priciples of that quote - certainly the goverment and the perpertrators should be to blame for the london bombings. i remember saying that i hope blair apologises to those that lost loved ones in the london bombings as i firmly believe british foreign policy led to them.
i am not trying to say all terrorist attacks accross the globe are due to our foreign policy, but certainly those in this country recently have been because of it.
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Feb 20, 2008 21:39:16 GMT
Dear oh dear! Nice patronising rhetoric, but no substance. I'll listen to the present people in charge not the ex-heads.
H
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Feb 20, 2008 21:52:45 GMT
Dear oh dear! Nice patronising rhetoric, but no substance. I'll listen to the present people in charge not the ex-heads. H You could start explaining why Im wrong instead of just saying Im wrong and saying Im either Naive or patronizing. Also there isn't a present head because the Bin laden unit was disbanded in 2005.
|
|
|
Post by kkkkken on Feb 21, 2008 0:21:51 GMT
Soi that's funny . But it doesn't mean were friends and I still don't like you ;D
|
|
|
Post by soicowboy on Feb 21, 2008 8:47:54 GMT
Is ok Ken- just put a Jihad on you
|
|
|
Post by knowingeye on Feb 21, 2008 10:31:47 GMT
Serpico,
As angered about innocents, from our shores or lands abroad, dying needlessly as I am, we have to be realistic in what has to be done. We can't wait around for the bomb to be dropped then react, too late. The 9/11 debate joins the death of Kennedy, man on the moon in terms of conspiracy theories. But if you look at the background to the establishment of Al-Qaeda from radical clerics in Egypt and Saudi, together with their well known dislike of former American Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his publicized anti-Arab views, then it's easy to create such theories.
We sat around waiting for peace under Chamberlain, then became involved in six years of World War. Sometimes we get things wrong and people die or get hurt. But I wonder how much we don't get told about that gets "tidied up" quietly in the background.
Most of right-minded people, whether God-fearing or not, want peace. But unfortunately, because of those that don't, our peace has its price, for us and others, along the way.
Eye
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Feb 21, 2008 11:36:14 GMT
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Feb 21, 2008 15:59:39 GMT
You may think some of the UK's actions maybe be wrong, but not as despicable as using people with downs syndrome as suicide bombers as they are doing in Iraq. That is not the work of peaceful people. H Not that it changes anything but since i just came across the story and for the sake of accuracy it appears they were not down syndrome - wiredispatch.com/news/?id=53024
|
|