ID Cards - one year on!

[Admin]

I'm planning to do an article in the Ipswich issue of The Oatcake next week about the impact of the ID Cards one year on from when they were first introduced.

The idea though is to tell it mainly from YOUR point of view, the supporters who've had to put up with it (or not, as the case may be?).

If you have the time, could you articulate your views here as to your... acceptance of the cards, your oppositon to them, your welcoming of them, your refusal to get one, your grudging decision to get one, etc... You don't have to go into great detail if you don't want to.

Whatever your views, could you share them here? I'm not looking for an argument between different points of view here, just your views on the past year of the cards and the way it has impacted your Stoke City experience, your views on whether they should continue and how it has made youj feel baout the club.

Many thanks,

Smudge

[bebscfc]

I was against the idea of the ID card, I still am.

I did purchase one, however, it was what i had to do to watch stoke play. It certainly has decreased hooliganism at stoke away matches, yet i do wander on the form that we are on now how much more people would go to away matches, and what an improvment the atmopshere would be.

ID cards on the whole have an equal amount of good and bad points, I still feel though, that it could be so much better without the ID cards.

[stonetezza]

Haven't got one
Refuse to get one
Totally object to getting one

Been an avid away follower for more years than I care to mention but find the whole thing obtrusive and objectionable.

After what I've contributed to the club over the years (many!!), I don't feel like being vetted now.

I also find some of the rationale behind the card questionable. If the ID card idea was brought in to weed out trouble makers and avoid trouble at matches and is only applied to away matches, are they saying there is no trouble at home matches caused by Stoke fans?

Could go on for hours with my objections to it.

[GlennA]

I'm a classic case of the six-or-eight away games per season fan who's been put off altogether by the ID cards.

To me, the cards approached the problem from completely the wrong direction by putting the onus on decent fans, and even the football club, before demanding improvements on the part of the organisation where responsibility for law and order really lies: the police.

If the cards have 'worked' it's for no other reason than they've halved the away followings and therefore statistically reduced the likelihood of trouble. This isn't a 'solution' in any real sense. If anything, it's an admission of failure.

I'm not someone who takes civil liberties for granted, and so I resent being ordered to carry an identity card, even by people who have the authority to do so, let alone a football club I've supported for almost thirty years.

If I thought they represented a solution, and if I was happy with the way they'd been thought through and introduced, I'd probably get one. But it all feels wrong to me.

Having said that, as I've conceded earlier, I'm not a fervent away supporter in any case, so I can afford to let these objections take priority over my desire to see an away game every month or so. I realise it's very different for a lot of people. But every time you go along with something you don't agree with, you hand over a little bit of control over your life. So I say it's time for a rethink.

[StokieSC]

I have a ID card, for the simple fact i like to follow my team away. Do i think it was a bad idea though? yes, totally! Supporters that have travelled with Stoke for many years are being made to purchase a bit of plastic to prove they're not a hooligan?
My first game with the card was against West Brom, and we all know what happened there with Stewards over reacting, the same could be said about Gillingham too. The club should really consider the ID card system and what it will do to the clubs fanbase.

[spiderpuss]

I don't think anybody likes ID cards. I was first dead against them
but have grown to live with it. I do go a lot of away games and to not
get one was not an option.
Now though its just as easy to get an away ticket as it was before the system.

There are several things that have disappointed me with the system though:

The police at certain locations have been offensive and treat us as if we
had trashed their town the week before, the incidents at WBA being the key
example of this. This just goes to show how bad some police are at controlling
events like this and in many ways inflame possible trouble. We also are still
having bags searched when going to grounds again if we are meant to be peaceful
ID card carrying memebers what is the point of that?
That can be countered though by the improvements in days such as Millwall and Cardiff
where the police were actually friendly and helpful.

There seems to be no grading of the matches at all and this needs to be
looked at for next season. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to have
cards for Gillingham away or Sunderland night match. Yet the club seem
to be intent on making no changes in this area. In fact the official web-site
goes to lengths to explain how no-one will be let in on a match day. All this
has meant is that people go in the home end of the ground in question.
Surely these games mentioned can be pay-on-the-day? There are several other games that could be just made
ticket only (no card). Watford and Palace away never had any trouble before the scheme
and wouldn't have any now. The need for ID cards is simply over the top.
Lets have a grading for these things ID card, Ticket Only, Cash sales.
As Glenn says it has stopped the sponatnuiety of away matches and that
is a bad thing.

I think now with ID cards we have levelled out the number of people who are
going to get one and it will probably remain that way if we stick around in this division.
The club and police will point to the fact that the hooligans do not travel
any more and to them the card is a resounding success. If you behave and
you want to see the game then you still can.

Spider

[abharsair]

Totally against them and I always will be, I refuse to be tagged and labelled like cattle just to go and watch “my” team go and play at a different location, and I refuse to pay for the privilege!

For a while now the Police have sneaked in “Police State” tactics, and have failed to do their job in preventing innocent people from suffering due to a minority of trouble makers. So to put in a scheme (and have the audacity to abbreviate it to True Supporters Scheme) which not only hides the Police’s failures, but also gives them more excuses to abuse their power (as demonstrated in a Wigan pub when a punter was asked to show his “ID” Card by the Police), is totally ridiculous and un-ethical!

For a while now Stoke City FC has done its level best to alienate its supporters and this for many was the final nail in the coffin.

Not only did the ID card drastically cut away attendances, but it also had a knock on effect with the home attendances too. Add that to the fact that many Stoke supporters WITH ID cards have then been treated like criminals and numerous grounds this season, leads me to the fact, that even with a drastic decrease in Season Ticket prices for next season, not even 8500 Stoke supporters have been able to bring themselves to pledge their support to Stoke City for next season.

In conclusion to the above statement, I have one thing to add "Shove the ID cards up your arse!".

Abharsair (Darryn Spragg)

[cockneypotter]

AM TOTALLY FOR THEM. Compare the palace game last season and this. last season - racist abuse and no surrender. this season - none of that. and doomed-laden threats that "there's only 500 turning up" were unfounded. If you haven't got anything to hide, what's your problem with a card. it's good for stopping hooligans.

[medog]

Got a season ticket but am not a "True Supporter".

Used to go to 3 - 4 away games a season. The close ones and wherever we were on boxing day.

It is not that I am against the ID card it is just that I used to take the missus on the away trips and she does not go the home games. It would mean getting her and me a card and I could not be bothered. As it is now, she gets my attention whenever Stoke are away and as it was before, Stoke used to get the support too.

Ironic that she would then become a "True Supporter" for going 3 - 4 games a season

[dude]

Absolutely ludicrous idea IMHO. Completely ruined the away day...are you going Satdee feel of a game...can't haven't got ID etc, would love to but etc etc



As West Brom proved to me, you don't get treated different and it doesn't make you a TRUE SUPPORTER if you have one. makes you a supporter with an ID card thats all.


Most ridiculous thing since "Nutty" and "Texan" bars were taken from sale.

[browneyedboy]

I am totally for them. I'd rather we took 800 fans to away matches than 2,000 if that means we keep away the minority undesirable pondlife who cause trouble and chant racist and secretarian rubbish. Atmostphere at away matches, both inside and outside the grounds, is far far better.

Plus, from a personal point of view, it means that should we draw a big team away from home in a cup, as a non-season ticket holder, I'll actually stand a chance of getting a ticket.

Those that refuse to get cards should do well to remember...the only person stopping them watching Stoke away games is themselves. The club aren't stopping them, the police aren't stopping them.

I have a question to put to all those who refuse to get ID cards...do you also refuse to travel abroad because you would have to apply for, be vetted for and pay for a passport? And yes, SCFC ID cards are the same thing, but on a smaller scale.

And also, if the ordinary, decent supporters had been willing to "grass up" those who cause trouble, to go to court and testify so that they are prosecuted by the police, we wouldn't have the ID cards at all. So everyone has themselves to blame. What's that old saying about it only taking good men to stand by and do nothing for evil to succeed? The ID card is ALL our faults, not just the fault of the hooligans.

I'd also like to say that, once you have an ID card, the ID card system actually fades into insignificance. You forget all about it (apart from making sure you don't leave home for a match without your card!).

No matter which way you look at the ID cards, whether you like them or not, everyone must agree they work!

[Pricey]

If we had no ID card scheme there would have been at least 5 games since last February (when the cards were introduced) where either the kick-off time would have been moved forward and/or travelling fans would have been given no other choice but to travel on official coaches.

To me this is a bigger restriction on civil liberties than having an ID card to get into away games.

[gimp]

i refuse to get one for many of the reasons stated above.
been following stoke for 34 years.
i didnt need an id card to go to places like shepshed charterhouse to watch stoke years ago and i did not need one to go to the palace game.
i sat with other false supporters in the palace end. not a fantastic experience, but at least i got to see my team on my terms.

the id scheme also failed to stop the pub full (60-70) of N40 turning up with stoke hooligans badges on!
you would have thought that hooliganism is a police matter. wonder why the bill could never crack this particular problem?

I have done all but 5 league grounds with stoke city at least once and many non league.

but i am not a true supporter.

[Hooky]

In principle I'm against them, as I feel if the Police did their job properly they shouldn't be needed, I also object that they are not a "Football wide" thing. However in practise they generally (odd exception) work very well, they could be improved, but that can be worked on. What is noticable is the change in atmosphere at away games, and its a positive change. I'm not talking about atmosphere as in chanting and singing volume & quantity, but "atmosphere" as in potential for trouble, types of chanting, the unwanted elements have gone, unfortunatly some good elements have stayed away with them.

I got my ID card in the summer, and haven't looked back, wished I'd got it on day 1 now.

[youthster]

very much in favour - got one as soon as they came out, and i only manage about 10 aways a season. the club had to do something about our reputation (look at derby last season to see another way this could have gone), and this is working. i'd rather that there were fewer of us and no thugs than go back to the bad old days. i just wish that the refuseniks who are not thugs would realise that there is no going back on this and get a card. we can still create an impressive atmosphere anyway, see west ham. made for a much better away experience.

[Homzy]

It still pains me to hear people will refuse to get cards out of principle.If someone told me i could never see Stoke play away again,i would be gutted.But if they then said well buy this card and you can still go i would be annoyed but of coruse i'd do it.
The tenner i spent on the card has enabled me to see some great away games,and lets be honest,its only a couple of hours in the pub so the price is hardly a problem!
Admittedly,is gutting to see the away attendances on some trips but if only everyone would bite the bullet and get a card we can recreate the old atmosphere but WITHOUT the stupid racist chanting that ruined last years palarse trip.I mean who wants to listen to "you can shove your fucking cards up your arse" for 90 minutes.

On the odd occasion when we have taken a decent following this season,i.e Watford and Burnley,the atmosphere has been brilliant and we've spurred the team onto victory.

I just wish people would stop moaning and pay the tenner so we can all have these great away days again.

[wardrobe monster]

I agree totaally with pricey on this one, I far sooner have an I.D card and be able to travel freely to and from the games. I incidently havent got one yet but will be applying as I am now again in a position to attend the odd away game. Ive been to the occasional away game where Ive had to be detained for half an hour or so because some numpties caused trouble, so the minor hassle of applying will be no problem, and £10 is hardly break the bank stuff is it?

[penkers]

One element I dislike about ID cards is the fact that the spontenaity is now taken out of away games for me.
Although not a regular away game follower I could visit friends around the country and, if we fancied it, choose to attend a game on the Saturday. In many cases we could buy the tickets on the gate and myself and my non Stoke supporting friends would all be able to attend the game together.

Also, many of the Stoke-supporting friends who I would arrange to go to away games with don't have id cards and I don't enjoy going to a game on my own.

So, at the moment I don't have a card - I wouldn't use it.

I may or may not get one in the future - being able to take a non-ID card holding friend along with me would make a difference (as would my friends deciding to get one ).

[BristolMick]

I am in favour of a scheme, but the current one is Draconian, Inflexible, Totally OTT and degrading.

In the current form it should only apply for certain high risk games, even then is it really necessary for old men, young children and women to have to have such ID and then be subject to a police state ID check at the turnstiles?

Many games it is totally unneccesary full stop. eg Rotherham away on a Tuesday night.

As spider has said each game should be treated on its own merits, and there is no reason why some couldn't be cash at the gate with no ID and others cash at the gate with ID.

The objectors to this always say if you do this there will be trouble...well it would be much better to approach this from a positive point of view and say instead that any relaxations will be removed if there IS trouble, not the other way around.

Stoke need as many supporters as they can get, they need to enfranchise people to activly support home AND away. To be in the habit of supporting Stoke.

They have gone so totally OTT with this scheme that they have made it so much hassle and unattractive for anyone but already committed fans to watch HALF the games!

Those that do go are then unnecessarily treated like scum by the lines of police and stewards before they can produce their little card.

BM

[Admin]

Thanks so far people - keep the views coming in... for and against... getting plenty of good stuff so far!

Smudge

[ljane74]

To be honest with you, i don't think season tickets should have to have ID supporters card. Stoke city FC have already got all details of Season Ticket holders. Why not have to send in photo's with application forms for Season tickets and have it all on one card.
But i do not object to having to have Supporters ID card in some form.
I always think that if you dont do anything wrong then why worry !!
I personally have not got a supporters card but that is purely because i cannot afford to go to all the away matches as well as paying for my season ticket.

[Deleted]

(I know where Penkers is coming from here...)

Having previously been a near ever present at away fixtures for many years, I've found myself only attending the odd away match this season, seven in total up until now. Away from friends I have at Stoke there are other people who I'll socialise with - some are Stoke fans, while others who don't have a great deal of interest in the club but will go to odd match every now and again, but don't have ID cards.

Back in November I'd have travelled down to Gillingham only for the fact that I had an old University friend from Yorkshire stopping in the area for the weekend - ideally I'd have talked him and a few others into going to the Priestfield Stadium, instead though seeing as they had no ID cards we spent a large part of the day in Hanley - this knocking off the possibility of five extra faces (three new ones) on the away terrace instantaneously. Another similar situation came with the festive fixture at Burnley back in December where my girlfriend (a Leicester City fan) obviously didn't have a Stoke City ID card. The other option that day was to go to watch Leicester play away at the Reebok Stadium which goes without saying wasn't where I wanted to be. In the end the day descended to listening to Ade Akinbiyi score the winning goal on Radio Stoke.

Before now I'd try and fit a Stoke City fixture into the equation whatever the circumstances, particularly an away match where I've made a day out of it, sometimes to the tune of £100+ when counting the time spent before and after the game. The scheme may have removed the 'guilty element' from the club, but it's also has spoilt a large proportion of what I, and many others, used to do in situations listed above. To top it all off when you travel to places like West Brom and Wolves and still get treated like common criminals the entire concept is blown out of the water.

[RWChris]

Had a similar situation to you Gareth...I'm at Lancaster University and was meeting my dad and Uncle at the JJB stadium for the Wigan game in October. As it turned out, my uncle couldn't make it for one reason or another and my dad suggested getting one of my housemates to come. He obviously just automatically thought about getting someone to use my uncle's ticket until I pointed out it wasn't possible....and thus £20-ish was wasted.

Also, if we play Preston during term-time next year then I'll certainly go to the game (20 min train journey), but if my housemates want to go to the game too (they've expressed an interest being footie fans), then they'd obviously have to sit in the home end whereas they just presumed they could sit with me.

Still, all in all the hooligan element appears to be no-more and being the type of person who would only attend half a dozen-or-so games per season, I haven't seen the difference that a supporter who sees 46 games per season would do. It's just situations when you want 'others' to come to a game or to give away a spare ticket that has had me cursing the thing.

Chris

[crewestokie]

When they first came in I was grudgingly in favour of the cards, I'm now totally in favour of them. I can't comment on the Palace game when there were no cards because I wasn't there but I do remember all too well the infamous Oldham away game a few years ago when a fantastic performance on the pitch was completely overshadowed by racist chanting off it that made me ashamed to be there. Anything which stops that kind of thing from happening again can only be a good thing.

That said, there are a few things I can't stand about the way the scheme operates, particularly the fact that you can never pay on the gate and the fact that there's no guest scheme, which have had the effect of reducing the number of away games I attend.

[Coll40]

I've never liked ID cards, but have had to accept that they are here to stay.
My kids have been asking me to get the cards so that they can go away, but i've always refused. Because of my principles, they are being deprived of the joys of away games. So I've now got our cards. Crewe will be our first away game since the cards were brought in.
It's better to know that there's much less chance of any trouble, making the away days safer for my kids, but there's still too much wrong with them.
It's wrong that kids and OAP's have to have them.
It's wrong that we have to pay for them.
It's wrong that we can't take guests.
And the name still stinks. Fans who have supported Stoke all their lives now need a little bit of plastic to prove they are True Supporters.

[Vodkab1ock]

for me it has completely ruined my love for away matches, i used to love being able to ring the lads at 9 o'clock on a saturday morining and ask them if they were up for a trip to where ever. my last away game was sheff utd away last season and i don't see me going one this year. the problem is even if i get one my mates haven'tand goin all the way on your own just isn't the same. maybe the club should look into the possibility of been able to take a freind on your card would make life alot easier for me and i'm sure other people would find it useful too. come on how many 65+ pensioners are goin go run wild in coventry or rip seats up at the stadium of light??

my personal oppinion i hate them, but i do miss the crack hopefully one day the away days will come back but until then i guess i wont be going.

[Admin]

This thread appears to have gone a little wonky - just testing it out with this post!