Tough love and the right to have your say

[bunnyscfc]

I’ve read some posts on this mb with disbelief over the last 14 hours or so.

It’s not that some folk have differing opinions to others, but that it seems anyone who doesn’t big-up Mama, the manager etc is some sort of anti-christ who doesn’t deserve the right to voice their concerns.

The time to be proactive in football is when you’re doing well - all top teams do it. Over the 30 years I’ve been watching the Potters it has become second nature for our club to do the polar opposite.

So now we find ourselves in our best position for 23 years. So well done PC, TP and the players. Yet, I feel it is (to me) glaringly obvious just where we can fall short in the final half dozen matches. The worrying thing for me is that this is in areas we have known about since August. If folk can’t handle constructive criticism now, just wait until some folk have their say in May, if it all ends in tears.

This is a public Stoke City messageboard, not some facility for 100% of the Brit populace to self-congratulate and say how wonderful everything is. If people think things are wrong with our club, this is where folk can offer tough love to their beloved Potters.

I’m no Pulis fan, but fair play to the bloke, he’s put us in a fabulous position. But I’m getting very twitchy now as I see him reverting to type. No, I don’t expect us to out-football teams or go all gung-ho, but I can see a scenario in May where we are left wishing “if only” – I’m sure most Potters can too, if truth be told.

My two-penneth?

Sorry Mama-lovers, but by continually playing the bloke TP is flogging a dead horse. I really don’t see what he offers us at all. When he is on song (10 games a season?) he is a handful, but mainly on the halfway line, well out of harms way. When he is off-song, as he has been since the ANC, the ball doesn’t stick, he looks heavy-legged, way off the pace, and offers the goal threat of a hairpiece. And the really worrying thing for me – he had a 60/40 ball with the keeper second half yesterday, and he bricked it!

Time for PC to put his hand his pocket one more time and secure the services of a hitman. Earnshaw would suffice, Peter. An extra 3 or 4 goals between now and May will almost guarantee us promotion. I never felt we would score yesterday, and with Mama seemingly first pick it puts a massive burden on Ricardo – a burden that has really affected him n recent weeks imho.

Other areas? Well, I don’t think we still know our best defence or midfield. Pugh (MTM by a country mile) gets moved about and played out of position; Rory is no use whatsoever at right midfield – we need his energy in the middle; I have grave doubts about Whelan’s influence on a match – I want to see him in their half a lot more; Leon Cort might pop up with some valuable goals, but I don’t rate him defensively at all – Burgess (the def. of a bog-standard forward)bullied him to death yesterday. Riggott has been superb for me and shows what type of defender we will need if we go up – if Leon continues to refuse to tackle and simply lets attackers face him, he will get absolutely nailed next year; Cress was awful but still played like a centre forward – that great cross of Gally’s second half saw Cress challenging and Mama stuck on the left wing. Go figure.

Is this a moan? I really onna bothered! I just want the team I love to finally give two generations of Stokies something to be proud of. If I upset the “F off up the Vale if you don’t like it” brigade, then so be it.

I feel that some Stokies getting shouted down despite offering constructive criticism, is simply wrong and displays a head-in-the-sand attitude.

The real times to worry is when

A) no one cares
B) it’s too late to do owt about it!

For me, we are slowly reaching point B.

Now to Thursday, is possiblythe most important 4 days in our recent history. Do nowt, and we may well be in the Play Off lottery. Be bold, and £60m and the glory might be ours!

[bettyswallocks]

Some good points there Bunny however I dont understand how you can say that we dont need Mama. When he plays with Ricci it is a brilliant combination with the through balls he plays and his control of the ball 80% of the time is rather decent. I can understand that he may not play the same around others which is not good enough especially when the players have time in training to get used to how each other plays i.e. boothroyd mainly offside from alot of Mamas balls, if they adapt to each other then all will be ok but whatever happens I dont believe dropping Mama at this stage is going to help it will hinder our promotion push.
No Fuller on saturday so who shall be play up front? If were going to leave Mama out is the combination of Boothroyd and Cresswell good enough? Can Gally come in and provide what were looking for well maybe but if with mama then he needs to get in the boxquicker and be leaping for every header. 3 points on saturday but how?

[Jamo on the wing]

Good post Bunny, I can't believe that foul mouthed head case who sits in front of me can write such a piece
You're right though, Derby have said they want £500k to loan Earnshaw, I say while it is tantamount to daylight robbery we need to decide whether to stick or twist. We look for all the world like a side who needs to twist at the minute so I reckon go get the goofy fecker and £500k will seem like peanuts when we get all that lovely Premier cash.

[kinnell]

The problem with Whelan is the old old TP problem I believe: he doesn't like his central midfielders to cross the bloody halfway line. A tragic waste of an excellent player. He got forward once yesterday and played a gorgeous pass to Gally. But I bet Tone was hurling his water bottle at the time!

[stokemark]

Some great points

For me, the midfield remains a problem

With have options but chop and change too much to accomadate 'favourites' - Whelan and Delap need to remain in the middle - Lawrence obviously out right but there is no one who seems able to do a job on the left still - why on earth that was never addressed, god only knows (although I think Pulis thought he had) when he bought Danny Pugh.

Cresswell needs rest and personally, I would start with Mama / Bothroyd up front on Saturday.Defensively, Dicko should be a fixture at full back with Cort dropped in favour of Ryan upon his return.

[growler]

Great post, particularly re Sidibe, Cort and Pulis. I reckon Whelan was a good signing though. Bothroyd looked a country mile better than Mama so maybe we will be ok if Pulis does the right thing.

[Dallas Cowboy]

Excellent post. Am I the only one getting tired of hearing "We are top" in answer to any criticism, especially when the criticism is justified?

We are so close to the dream that we have all cherished for more than 20 years that to miss out would be criminal.

And don't talk about best position for x number of years. I want promotion. Stoke need promotion. So get it sorted, Pulis and prove to everybody your worth as a manager.

[basitbrosupfront]

Excactly. The best thing for stoke at the moment is definetly promotion!!!

[Mr_DaftBurger]

bunnyscfc said:

I’ve read some posts on this mb with disbelief over the last 14 hours or so.

14 hours? Are you a slow reader?

How long did it take to type that? Do you teach PE?

[slangking]

The facts are that we are top due to the players in the team and the manager, to rip them to pieces when we are so close is frankly, brainless.

[basitbrosupfront]

Bang on slangking!!!!

[bunnyscfc]

it’s not exactly “ripping them to pieces”, is it?

Perhaps the sentences, “I’m no Pulis fan, but fair play to the bloke”, “he’s put us in a fabulous position”, and “so well done PC, TP and the players” didn’t spell my thoughts about our position clearly enough?

My definition of “brainless” is one or all of....
A) doing something wrong several times and persisting with that method to succeed
B) doing absolutely nothing at all and just hoping/praying to succeed
C) banking on others cocking it up whilst doing A and B, to succeed

I’ve been to too many crapholes, spent too much money, invested too much of my heart and soul over the past 30 years to simply shrug my shoulders and hope for the best where Stoke City are concerned. I want my two kids to have the best I can offer in life – watching a successful local team that puts real pride into the hearts of its community is all part of that.

I’ve spent too many years watching gloryhunters lord it up in my city, whilst Potteries kids see others mock their club as a laughing stock. We now have a chance to put our club and city back on the map, but it seems that reasoned debate goes out of the window with some fellow Stokies.

Sorry, but I refuse to settle for second best. Sport is all about winning. Life is all about making the most of your opportunities. I will not sit idly by and watch us throw this season away. I don’t expect other supporters or the powers-that-be too, either!

Also, DaftB – avail yourself!

[Dallas Cowboy]

You are not wrong in refusing to settle for second best. The sad thing is that too many Stokies are content to settle for just that and then seek to justify their stance with "the best season we have had for ages, etc."

It is about winning and that is exactly what Stoke have to do in the remaining six games in order to be counted among life's winners rather than being perpetual losers.

Go for it Stoke! Pulis, break the habit of a lifetime and make us all feel justifiably proud.

[slangking]

You would have thought Pulis has had nothing whatsoever to do with us being top of the table for the first time in decades, now they are looking to slag him for being too successful f'chrissakes if Pulis had listened to the 'advice' of the unwise, he wouldn't be our manager and we'd be nowhere near top, so shut the fuck up and let him get on with doing something which he clearly knows more than you about.

[Jimbo]

slangking said:

The facts are that we are top due to the players in the team and the manager, to rip them to pieces when we are so close is frankly, brainless.

Slangking,

Nobody is ripping Pulis and the players. I think it's fair to say that despite the age-old divide of Pulis lovers and PHWs, most reasonably-minded Stokies are giving Pulis the credit he deserves.

Bunny makes a very sensible argument that basically when you're on top and can attract better players is the time when you should be looking to improve.

We're on the verge of promotion to the Premier League. We will NEVER have a better opportunity of attracting players such as now. Only six games remaining to bring in a striker who can score the goals to get us promotion.

Nobody is ripping Sidibe to pieces, but it's clear that we need someone who can score goals. Now while Sidibe will hold the ball up, Pulis himself has admitted we need a goalscorer.

This isn't a case of supporters ripping into the manager or any players, it's a case of open-minded supporters saying 'let's strengthen the team NOW, rather than wait until the summer and wonder what might have been'.

[tony harrison]

Spot on Bunnyscfc.

I agree with most of your post. I too don't like what I'm seeing on the pitch. Yes we are top of the league (at the moment)

I would like nothing better than to see Stoke City back in the top division like all those years ago but some of the problems are so obvious.

Once again well said Bunny.

[bunnyscfc]

…and I thought Shakespeare was dead.

Where have I slated our manager? Where haven’t I given him credit?

Your last sentence infers that, as supporters, we are not allowed to offer constructive advice, purely because the manager has more qualifications than us? I would place a small bet that I have more sports coaching qualifications (including football) than most professional football managers, not that this matters at all, but it obviously does to you!?

Despite spending hundreds of pounds of my own money and countless hours of my time getting my badges sorted, my opinion on football is worth no more than anyone else’s. It’s my job to ensure I am qualified, but I hear far brighter footballing opinions from the regular match-going Stokie than I ever did on my FA courses. Life is the greatest educator.

Whilst respecting and valuing everyone’s sensible opinions, no matter how different to mine they might be, I wouldn’t dream of telling anyone to “shut the f up”, because they don’t agree with me.

It seems that you are incapable of reasoned debate?

[slangking]

What it boils down to mush is that for all your poxy coaching badges you ain't our manager and never will be, you are a supporter, Stoke City desperately needs all the support it can get at the moment, you can moan your arsse off close season if it makes you feel happier but now we can't afford supporters no matter how qualified they reckon themselves to be to be needlessly slagging our own players off, it serves no purpose. This is too important, we have waited too long.

[Titan Uranus]

"...Am I the only one getting tired of hearing "We are top" in answer to any criticism, especially when the criticism is justified?.."

No, you're not the only one dallascowboy..

in fact it's getting right on my tits

Mr Tony Pulis has got a chance to take himself into SCFC folklore... has he got the bottle, tactical acumen and nous to do it?

If he doesn't, he should be sacked. End of.

[slangking]

Hypocriteboy just doesn't like being reminded of how we are top of the league and Pulis is the manager.

[Adster]

is bunny becoming the new ted??

good post bunny, i agree with what your saying.

thing i think is that we need to grab games by the balls. i would love to see us back in the top flight, but the key then is staying there which i know we will be capable of doing. TP has got a plan, im leaving it up to him.

goarnnn stoke, we'll be with you. ;D

[Do eet fer Paddock]

Mama's ace. This fact renders anything you have to say redundant.

[Deleted]

Alan Titmarch,
Male Agony Aunt,
Self Help For Ex-Scouts Quarterly
Spineless and Proud Of It Publications Ltd
Dorchester


Dear Alan,
I seem to have lost my spine, can you help? I believe I first noticed the symptoms when the [wife/girlfriend/parent/grandparent] kicked me out of the house, screaming "I am unable to stand any more of your incessant girly fearmongering!". Since then I have been reduced to typing my dribble on an Internet messageboard, from my perch on the bench in my garden-shed (the rabbit has moved out in protest).

To my shame, I have found myself fanning the embers of my worst fears by seeking the company of other (virtual) persons of little fibre, but like mind. I feel so dirty. And yet, try as I might, I seem unable to control the desire to discuss my nightmares in public. Even though Wolves fans - and even those from Leeds, and yes, from Brazil - may come to mock me; I find myself unable to bare the enormous weight of my expectations with the good-grace that is expected from a Stokie.

I am particularly ashamed of the events in the pub last night - another place from which I have now sadly been barred - when, beside myself with worry, I asked everyone present to join with me in a chorus of the following shameful ditty (sung to the tune of, "This would never have happened under Lou Macari!" ... which also sounds remarkably like EE-I-AD-EE-O)

Stoke always let me down
Stoke always let me down
For twent-y-three years in a row
Stoke always let me down

Stoke always let me down
Stoke always let me down
For twent -y-three years in a row
Stoke always let me down

...


Even small crowds of Fail fans ... OK, all three of Fail fans ... stoned me, as I made my hurried escape from the establishment.

Dear Alan, I am at my wits end; is there anything you can suggest that will halt my humiliating slide into total despair!?


Yours,
A Quivering Jelly-like Mass
Covering-Most-Of-The-Bench-In-The-Shed



(In the best possible taste)


ah

[mumf14]

Andy...I blame Fornsides lunatic mate Sfance....Where is the fucker...?

Relegation...my arse.!