|
Post by MarkWolstanton on Jul 10, 2010 15:33:55 GMT
I just don't understand people who can't get their heads around :
Stoke City are unlikely to be the only orgsanisation in history that can hope for a successful future without having a policy that looks beyond the end of tomorrow.
The fact that we haven't brought many players through in the recent past is because we haven't spent a maggot ridden bean on the youth development system prior to now.
Players who haven't broken into the first team before they have been potty trained are not neccesarily a waste of time.
Stoke City cannot forever keep spending above their income with the difference being made up by Peter Coates and Bet365. Its essential we start building a youth development system now that delivers. It usually takes 5 to 10 years to really see decent numbers coming through such a system once it is funded correctly. Ask West ham.
|
|
|
Post by staliondal on Jul 10, 2010 15:42:32 GMT
I just don't understand people who can't get their heads around : Stoke City are unlikely to be the only orgsanisation in history that can hope for a successful future without having a policy that looks beyond the end of tomorrow. The fact that we haven't brought many players through in the recent past is because we haven't spent a maggot ridden bean on the youth development system prior to now. Players who haven't broken into the first team before they have been potty trained are not neccesarily a waste of time. Stoke City cannot forever keep spending above their income with the difference being made up by Peter Coates and Bet365. Its essential we start building a youth development system now that delivers. It usually takes 5 to 10 years to really see decent numbers coming through such a system once it is funded correctly. Ask West ham. Spot on.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 10, 2010 15:48:18 GMT
I just don't understand people who can't get their heads around : Stoke City are unlikely to be the only orgsanisation in history that can hope for a successful future without having a policy that looks beyond the end of tomorrow. The fact that we haven't brought many players through in the recent past is because we haven't spent a maggot ridden bean on the youth development system prior to now. Players who haven't broken into the first team before they have been potty trained are not neccesarily a waste of time. Stoke City cannot forever keep spending above their income with the difference being made up by Peter Coates and Bet365. Its essential we start building a youth development system now that delivers. It usually takes 5 to 10 years to really see decent numbers coming through such a system once it is funded correctly. Ask West ham. Do You think TP thinks that way though? I'm really not sure he does.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 10, 2010 15:56:30 GMT
Cheers MarkW and newschooldevil, you've said what I was trying to say - but you've said it with more authority. As you suggest, just because Stoke have always underfunded and under-resourced their youth system in the past, doesn't mean that things should or will stay that way. I guess some fans have yet to be convinced that, not only are Stoke now a mid table Premier league team, but they are slowly but surely uprgrading everything at the club and that includes the youth system. You'd think it was a reason to be happy not yet another chance to knock what they are trying to do.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 10, 2010 15:59:46 GMT
I just don't understand people who can't get their heads around : Stoke City are unlikely to be the only orgsanisation in history that can hope for a successful future without having a policy that looks beyond the end of tomorrow. The fact that we haven't brought many players through in the recent past is because we haven't spent a maggot ridden bean on the youth development system prior to now. Players who haven't broken into the first team before they have been potty trained are not neccesarily a waste of time. Stoke City cannot forever keep spending above their income with the difference being made up by Peter Coates and Bet365. Its essential we start building a youth development system now that delivers. It usually takes 5 to 10 years to really see decent numbers coming through such a system once it is funded correctly. Ask West ham. Do You think TP thinks that way though? I'm really not sure he does. He gave O'Neill his debut at Portsmouth when he was 16 and has tried to bring him to Stoke since then so I'd say that TP thinks if a player is good enough he will play him.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 10, 2010 18:25:11 GMT
He gave him his debut and then didn't play again.
And didn't TP want the academy to be done away with when he was first here?
I just don't think he has the same commitment to it as Coates.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 10, 2010 18:30:35 GMT
I think he didn't see a great deal of point in having it when it was underfunded, when we didn't even own the Mich and when we had been losing the best local kids to better funded academies (including Crewe) for years. I think he reasoned in those days that he'd rather spend the money on raising us from being in the bottom four in the Championship in terms of the budget he had to work with.
None of those considerations apply now, do they?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 10, 2010 18:34:13 GMT
They don't but I don't think Pulis is the driver behind changing the academy though. We shall see if he has a change of heart, I don't think he will.
|
|
|
Post by Roy Cropper on Jul 10, 2010 19:28:41 GMT
I don't think TP is a huge fan of buying unproven players but I do think that if they are here, and good enough he will play them.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 10, 2010 19:31:47 GMT
They don't but I don't think Pulis is the driver behind changing the academy though. We shall see if he has a change of heart, I don't think he will. I don't think anyone has suggested that Pulis is the driver behind changing the academy. That doesn't mean he won't take advantages of the changes that Coates has pushed through, does it?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 10, 2010 19:33:06 GMT
They don't but I don't think Pulis is the driver behind changing the academy though. We shall see if he has a change of heart, I don't think he will. I don't think anyone has suggested that Pulis is the driver behind changing the academy. That doesn't mean he won't take advantages of the changes that Coates has pushed through, does it? It doesn't but I just doubt that he will do.
|
|
|
Post by mikeyb99 on Jul 11, 2010 10:46:12 GMT
I just don't understand people who can't get their heads around : Stoke City are unlikely to be the only orgsanisation in history that can hope for a successful future without having a policy that looks beyond the end of tomorrow. The fact that we haven't brought many players through in the recent past is because we haven't spent a maggot ridden bean on the youth development system prior to now. Players who haven't broken into the first team before they have been potty trained are not neccesarily a waste of time. Stoke City cannot forever keep spending above their income with the difference being made up by Peter Coates and Bet365. Its essential we start building a youth development system now that delivers. It usually takes 5 to 10 years to really see decent numbers coming through such a system once it is funded correctly. Ask West ham. Why is it that the few good ones that do come through the system virtually never play a game? I think that's the question people are asking. No-one is clamouring per se for nappy-wearing kiddies to be thrust into the first team, only that they are allowed to actually get a taste of first team action and crucially be allowed to cement a first team place if they're good enough. And if there were so many questions about the state of our academy up until now - and presumably too the state of the academy products - why is it that TP/the club choose to talk-up the likes of Vass, Wedderburn and all the others whose names we can't even remember any more? I think we're all well entitled to be cynical.
|
|
|
Post by knype on Jul 11, 2010 10:47:36 GMT
I just don't understand people who can't get their heads around : Stoke City are unlikely to be the only orgsanisation in history that can hope for a successful future without having a policy that looks beyond the end of tomorrow. The fact that we haven't brought many players through in the recent past is because we haven't spent a maggot ridden bean on the youth development system prior to now. Players who haven't broken into the first team before they have been potty trained are not neccesarily a waste of time. Stoke City cannot forever keep spending above their income with the difference being made up by Peter Coates and Bet365. Its essential we start building a youth development system now that delivers. It usually takes 5 to 10 years to really see decent numbers coming through such a system once it is funded correctly. Ask West ham. Why is it that the few good ones that do come through the system virtually never play a game? I think that's the question people are asking. No-one is clamouring per se for nappy-wearing kiddies to be thrust into the first team, only that they are allowed to actually get a taste of first team action and crucially be allowed to cement a first team place if they're good enough. And if there were so many questions about the state of our academy up until now - and presumably too the state of the academy products - why is it that TP/the club choose to talk-up the likes of Vass, Wedderburn and all the others whose names we can't even remember any more? I think we're all well entitled to be cynical. Such as who?
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Jul 11, 2010 10:54:35 GMT
Karl Henry, Paterson and Vass would be the names people would chuck at him
Is that enough to hang Pulis though?
Dickinson played a big role in the promotion season at 20 years old.
And he bought Halls as a 21-year-old and played him every week.
The test will come if he ever has better youth products bursting to get into the first team picture at any point in the next 5 yrs.
Let's see what happens with this Cuvelier over the next 2 years
|
|
|
Post by mikeyb99 on Jul 11, 2010 11:02:03 GMT
Why are we keeping Collins but pushing-out Dicko? Why is Huth still preferred to Wilko and (the seemingly departing) Shotton at right-back? Martin Paterson? Karl Henry? None world-beaters but I'd love to see all of them being allowed to make meaningful contributions to our squad at the moment.
If we turn back the clock a few years, we've also seen Gareth Owen, Mark Wilson, Richard Keogh and Adam Rooney (just names off the top of my head) impress in cameos but not be allowed to stake a claim for a first team place, when we've had the likes of Lewis Buxton as undroppable regulars. I'm not for a moment saying that all of these players would be anywhere near our squad today but I think they illustrate the point that we could have been better utilising local talent before the creation of a flashy academy. I mean that's how things used to be, right?
EDIT: This isn't a blame game necessarily, it's just that the messages coming out of the club re. youth development have been very mixed in recent years. We get all the talk about the importance of local talent, the occasional starlet is heralded, and then two to three years later they're free-transferred/sold-on for peanuts having never played a game.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Aug 22, 2010 14:19:13 GMT
Just noticed the U-18s were due to play Southampton yesterday.
Did FloCuv play?
Anyone know how he's shaping up?
And have we actually paid cash for any other members of this year's Academy squad?
|
|
|
Post by gazXbrum on Aug 22, 2010 15:42:11 GMT
I just don't understand people who can't get their heads around : Stoke City are unlikely to be the only orgsanisation in history that can hope for a successful future without having a policy that looks beyond the end of tomorrow. The fact that we haven't brought many players through in the recent past is because we haven't spent a maggot ridden bean on the youth development system prior to now. Players who haven't broken into the first team before they have been potty trained are not neccesarily a waste of time. Stoke City cannot forever keep spending above their income with the difference being made up by Peter Coates and Bet365. Its essential we start building a youth development system now that delivers. It usually takes 5 to 10 years to really see decent numbers coming through such a system once it is funded correctly. Ask West ham. ----------------------------------------------- Cant argue with any of the above. Add a good scouting network abroad and you have a football club in very good health.
|
|
|
Post by MarkWolstanton on Aug 22, 2010 17:31:13 GMT
Just noticed the U-18s were due to play Southampton yesterday. Did FloCuv play? Anyone know how he's shaping up? And have we actually paid cash for any other members of this year's Academy squad? No he didn't start in the 2..2 draw yesterday as he had only returned from international duty on the Friday.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 22, 2010 17:33:49 GMT
Just noticed the U-18s were due to play Southampton yesterday. Did FloCuv play? Anyone know how he's shaping up? And have we actually paid cash for any other members of this year's Academy squad? No he didn't start in the 2..2 draw yesterday as he had only returned from international duty on the Friday. What was the team?
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Aug 22, 2010 17:37:21 GMT
The coverage of the Academy is dire on the official site. Don't know if it's the same with all clubs?
They haven't even updated the Academy squad list, let alone reported on the game yesterday.
And now we're actually investing in our system, it'd be nice to keep an eye on ans see what was going on there.
|
|
|
Post by One-Two on Aug 22, 2010 17:38:19 GMT
How many youth players have we bought this season apart from Flo?
|
|
|
Post by MarkWolstanton on Aug 22, 2010 17:41:07 GMT
No he didn't start in the 2..2 draw yesterday as he had only returned from international duty on the Friday. What was the team? It would be good if the Official site gave us some info on this sort of thing wouldn't it but that would involve some work and professionalism like other club websites. New faces from last season included Lucas Dawson, scored direct from a corner and Brunt from Bristol City a strong centre forward who also netted.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 22, 2010 17:44:11 GMT
It would indeed Mark. I can't imagine it would it would take that much effort either. Especially for profiles. It'd take a day or two at most.
|
|
|
Post by nystoke on Aug 22, 2010 17:51:31 GMT
I think next season meaning the current season..
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 3, 2010 17:36:01 GMT
Anyone seen him play? How's he doing?
|
|
|
Post by Danstoke82 on Nov 4, 2010 8:17:09 GMT
Think he's a long way off getting near the first team squad and will join Arismendi in the loan club for a while.
Still, there's a lot of positives about Cuvelier, so hopefully he may prove useful in the future?.
|
|
|
Post by mrrburgundy on Nov 4, 2010 13:45:29 GMT
He turns into a decent player on FM10, always a good sign!
|
|
|
Post by TheWiseMaster on Nov 4, 2010 13:50:54 GMT
Cuvelier regularly gets good write ups .... as indeed does a certain Mr Parton
|
|