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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 9, 2010 1:19:34 GMT
That does seem to make it even more pointless. I wonder if Marshall or Lund will be given contract extensions any time soon?
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 9, 2010 1:47:18 GMT
What do we have to lose? Their is always the chance that any of them could be the bollocks. Does it really make a difference to you or I if they turn out to just be plain bollocks? Wouldn't matter whether they were bollocks or the bollocks - nobody really gets a chance in a TP side unless they're at least 25 and/or have plenty prior experience. That's just the way it is. I guess Shawcross is the exception that proves the rule but it's hardly a comparable case is it. I agree that we don't have a lot to lose. I just don't know why we bother.
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Post by gzirastokie on Jul 9, 2010 7:10:44 GMT
mmmmmm.... sounds a good signing but as Pulis says "one for the future" .... another Arismendi and only signed a 2 year deal so could go awfully wrong
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 9, 2010 7:14:15 GMT
mmmmmm.... sounds a good signing but as Pulis says "one for the future" .... another Arismendi and only signed a 2 year deal so could go awfully wrong Hang on - he's still an academy scholar and he has a pro deal - that is a big step up for Stoke, who don't normally offer pro contracts to academy players.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 9, 2010 7:18:19 GMT
Lund, Marshall, Arismendi all the next big thing, all failed to make a single appearance last year do we really need another player the same there's only so much future to go around and we can always sign more players then unless he is shit hot in a couple of years time it's a waste be hopes we sign someone who will have an impact next year soon Marshall played almost a whole season at League 2 and League 1 level - scored six or seven goals from the wing and impressed at all three clubs. When was the last time an 18 year old Stoke player did that? Did you really want an 18 year old who had never played a league game to spend a season in the reserves and on the Stoke bench with just the odd few minutes on the pitch - how would that have developed his game? I suppose if you had been a Man Utd fan a few years ah=go you'd have been pissed off that a young lad called Beckham was sent on loan to Preston rather than sit on the first team bench?
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Post by gilberto on Jul 9, 2010 8:01:34 GMT
cuvelier compared to paul scholes in today's sentinel! nice.
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Post by mikeyb99 on Jul 9, 2010 8:25:04 GMT
I just hope one of these days TP is going to put his money where his mouth is and actually give one of these much-heralded wonderkids a chance to prove themselves. It's difficult to read this article: www.whydelilah.co.uk/news/09_Jul_2010/Stoke+to+go+with+the+Flo+after+signing+Cuvelier+from+Portsmouth.html... without a sense of irony. Stoke 'won't rush' Cuvelier into the side (God forbid we rush him in like all the others Tone has rushed in over the years) and it's good to see our 'strong Portsmouth connections' meaning we jump the queue for all their world-class youth prospects (do they even have an Academy?).
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Post by Dr Oetcake on Jul 9, 2010 8:35:05 GMT
Well, this line will cause me to eat some words about whether or not we can attract targets: "He was very impressed by Stoke from the off, their professionalism and enthusiasm, and it did not take long to agree."Good work TP - and TS Mind you, this could equate to "we promise to pay you every week, with money, not matchattax cards.."
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Post by Dr Oetcake on Jul 9, 2010 8:36:43 GMT
Wasn't there some other young whipper snapper from Pompey that we were looking at as well?
I think he's gone 'home' to some Krout club?
Or am i dreaming?
One-two - i stand to be corrected but i'll bet a lot of that was down to PC - i struggle to hear what lispy Scholsey says sometimes, so i bet the old Spickers were flummoxed. Yeah, the German press reported that some bloke called Lenny Sowah turned down us and Wigan to join Hamburg. Looks like it's that Head of the Academy bloke, Martin, who's ex-Pompey and must know all about these lads, who was behind these deals. Hmm, sounds like Sowah grapes to me...
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jul 9, 2010 8:55:53 GMT
I just hope one of these days TP is going to put his money where his mouth is and actually give one of these much-heralded wonderkids a chance to prove themselves. It's difficult to read this article: www.whydelilah.co.uk/news/09_Jul_2010/Stoke+to+go+with+the+Flo+after+signing+Cuvelier+from+Portsmouth.html... without a sense of irony. Stoke 'won't rush' Cuvelier into the side (God forbid we rush him in like all the others Tone has rushed in over the years) and it's good to see our 'strong Portsmouth connections' meaning we jump the queue for all their world-class youth prospects (do they even have an Academy?). Hi Mikey, With regards the Portsmouth Academy; until the financial hit the fan their Academy was one of the biggest spending in terms of player recruitment. Paul Hart was lured away from Leeds Academy with the budget to build up the Pompey youth development system to be one of the top Academies. He was and is regarded as one of the top Youth Coaches/Organisers we have. They went around trying to buy up all the top prospects in the country and I can tell you from direct experience that they scoured the country and beyond and were not slow at coming forward to try and entice kids down South. Just one example of this is the prising away from West Brom of an England international James Hurst. This is the reason the lad we have signed up was in Portsmouth's Academy in the first place. They beat off competition for the best they could find with cash.
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Post by mikeyb99 on Jul 9, 2010 9:13:13 GMT
I stand corrected then! Seems we've been absolutely right to be stalking their academy!
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Post by prettyricky on Jul 9, 2010 16:53:00 GMT
Lund, Marshall, Arismendi all the next big thing, all failed to make a single appearance last year do we really need another player the same there's only so much future to go around and we can always sign more players then unless he is shit hot in a couple of years time it's a waste be hopes we sign someone who will have an impact next year soon Marshall played almost a whole season at League 2 and League 1 level - scored six or seven goals from the wing and impressed at all three clubs. When was the last time an 18 year old Stoke player did that? Did you really want an 18 year old who had never played a league game to spend a season in the reserves and on the Stoke bench with just the odd few minutes on the pitch - how would that have developed his game? I suppose if you had been a Man Utd fan a few years ah=go you'd have been pissed off that a young lad called Beckham was sent on loan to Preston rather than sit on the first team bench? there's nothing wrong with sending out on loan im just saying we've got numerous players on the books who are doin fuk all for us do we really need another one
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 9, 2010 17:32:13 GMT
Sounds good. It'll be interesting to monitor his Academy displays www.whydelilah.co.uk/news/09_Jul_2010/Stoke+to+go+with+the+Flo+after+signing+Cuvelier+from+Portsmouth.html“He is an excellent player. In my opinion he was Portsmouth’s player of last season at youth level, and I’m not alone in that view. “He’s not the biggest at about 5ft 9in, but he is very strong. He is strong in the tackle, distributes the ball well and can shoot from distance with either foot. “He is a similar sort of player in style to Paul Scholes. Added to that he is also a very intelligent young man.
“I know Tony Pulis and I am sure he is going to like Cuvelier. He is his type of player.
“Cuvelier is very hard-working and committed, which are attributes Tony demands from all his players. He is also very determined and is a player who sets his standards very high.”www.we-are-football.com/posts/portsmouth-fc-2009-sep-12-cuvelier-signs-professional-contract“He’s a versatile player but we see him as an attacking midfielder. “He had a very good summer programme and got himself into good shape, although he’s got a little bit of a foot injury at the moment. “There’s a lot of potential there and we see him making significant progress here at Pompey. “He’s also a model student who is doing well with the educational programme that we provide. “We’ve got a network around Europe and he’s a result of that. We had him over for a while prior to offering him a scholarship and he showed a lot of talent.”
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 9, 2010 17:34:32 GMT
Marshall played almost a whole season at League 2 and League 1 level - scored six or seven goals from the wing and impressed at all three clubs. When was the last time an 18 year old Stoke player did that? Did you really want an 18 year old who had never played a league game to spend a season in the reserves and on the Stoke bench with just the odd few minutes on the pitch - how would that have developed his game? I suppose if you had been a Man Utd fan a few years ah=go you'd have been pissed off that a young lad called Beckham was sent on loan to Preston rather than sit on the first team bench? there's nothing wrong with sending out on loan im just saying we've got numerous players on the books who are doin fuk all for us do we really need another one Surely you can see that there is a world of difference between holding on to deadwood with no future at the club (like Soares, Sonko and Tonge) and sending teenagers like Marshall, Shotton (or Cuvelier once he is old enough) out on loan to get pitch time and to learn their trade? If you think a young international like Cuvelier is not worth having at the club, presumably you'd like to do away with the youth system altogether?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 9, 2010 17:43:29 GMT
Shotton is 22.
My issue is that we'll probably never see him in a Stoke shirt, even if he shows signs of being good enough.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 9, 2010 17:51:36 GMT
there's nothing wrong with sending out on loan im just saying we've got numerous players on the books who are doin fuk all for us do we really need another one Surely you can see that there is a world of difference between holding on to deadwood with no future at the club (like Soares, Sonko and Tonge) and sending teenagers like Marshall, Shotton (or Cuvelier once he is old enough) out on loan to get pitch time and to learn their trade? If you think a young international like Cuvelier is not worth having at the club, presumably you'd like to do away with the youth system altogether? It's Catch 22 though isn't it. Under TP, in terms of benefits to our own team, it's really not worth having the youth system. He doesn't use it. Obviously in the much longer term (i.e. post-Pulis) we need to hang on to youth development but this lad will be long gone by then.
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Post by prettyricky on Jul 9, 2010 18:38:34 GMT
there's nothing wrong with sending out on loan im just saying we've got numerous players on the books who are doin fuk all for us do we really need another one Surely you can see that there is a world of difference between holding on to deadwood with no future at the club (like Soares, Sonko and Tonge) and sending teenagers like Marshall, Shotton (or Cuvelier once he is old enough) out on loan to get pitch time and to learn their trade? If you think a young international like Cuvelier is not worth having at the club, presumably you'd like to do away with the youth system altogether? i can see the point of a youth system but how many of them actually come through to play at top level look at players like Nathaniel Wedderburn i heard a lot of promise from him and now hes at northampton i'd just rather see pulis investing more in a first team squad than youth players
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 9, 2010 18:42:20 GMT
Wedderburn I don't think was good enough though.
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Post by prettyricky on Jul 9, 2010 19:03:44 GMT
is cuvelier?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 9, 2010 19:40:58 GMT
Not a clue, I haven't seen him play to judge.
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Post by boweryboy on Jul 9, 2010 19:45:49 GMT
he's not the biggest at 5-9,oh dear as we know you have to be well over six foot to be a good footballer and get into Stoke's side. he's strong in the tackle and distributes the ball well and can shoot from distance with either foot,sounds like someone who should go in the team right away......but no,he will have to have the attacking ability knocked out of him first,Pulis will work on his defensive side of his game so he can cover the fullback and then in about four years time we will let him go,probably after a disagreement with Pulis about tactics.............
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bigboots
Youth Player
Annie eat your oatcake
Posts: 437
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Post by bigboots on Jul 9, 2010 20:34:59 GMT
I just cant see him ever getting into our 1st team with how we bring on youngsters at this club. Shawcross was an exeption, because he was 6"5 and played in Pulis's favorite position. I cant see Shotton, the 2 crewe kids, arismendi & now this new 'kiddie' ever being given a chance in our 1st team to develop. with Pulis you're a kid till you are at least 23. If Pulis had Rooney, he's just be making his debut just about now. With this new 'kiddie' he's only signed a 2 year deal (i think) so, if after 2 years he shows any good signs, them Man Utd or someone like that will pick him up for small change.
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Post by prettyricky on Jul 9, 2010 21:15:58 GMT
i just heard apparently Kemp spent some time as a reporter after leaving stoke, he did reports on pompys reserve team and he reckons cuvelier was man of the match every game he's supposed to be shit hot but thats only kemp's opinion suppose it depends how much you trust him
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 9, 2010 21:19:43 GMT
Wilko was another exception
Dicko got in the first team in the Championship but TP didn't think he was up to Prem standard - and I think he was probably right.
There seems, from what Mark Wolstanton said earlier, to have been a big effort this year to improve the calibre of recruits to the academy - which we need to do now we are in the Prem. Our academy in the past had a poor reputation and lost many decent potential recruits to other, bigger, clubs - and Crewe.
The club is obviously bidding to turn things round and apparently is paying out decent money to do so.
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Post by Butters on Jul 9, 2010 21:49:23 GMT
I don't understand all this TP bashing about not using youth players with no experience. If he's good enough he'll play him. May I introduce you to this lad...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 9, 2010 21:53:03 GMT
Wilko was another exception Dicko got in the first team in the Championship but TP didn't think he was up to Prem standard - and I think he was probably right. There seems, from what Mark Wolstanton said earlier, to have been a big effort this year to improve the calibre of recruits to the academy - which we need to do now we are in the Prem. Our academy in the past had a poor reputation and lost many decent potential recruits to other, bigger, clubs - and Crewe. The club is obviously bidding to turn things round and apparently is paying out decent money to do so. Wilko is 25 now isn't he? The club are yes but is Tone? We shall wait and see.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 9, 2010 22:03:36 GMT
Wilko was another exception Dicko got in the first team in the Championship but TP didn't think he was up to Prem standard - and I think he was probably right. There seems, from what Mark Wolstanton said earlier, to have been a big effort this year to improve the calibre of recruits to the academy - which we need to do now we are in the Prem. Our academy in the past had a poor reputation and lost many decent potential recruits to other, bigger, clubs - and Crewe. The club is obviously bidding to turn things round and apparently is paying out decent money to do so. Wilko is 25 now isn't he? The club are yes but is Tone? We shall wait and see. Yes, but Wilko came through the academy, went out on several loans and established himself in the first team squad. I'm not sure what bearing his current age has on the topic. If we have this debate in two years time you'll be able to say "triumphantly" that he is 27! ;D
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 9, 2010 22:12:13 GMT
I can't see players that haven't been with us for as long as him being happy with that though and it still doesn't show he is happy to play the youth players. He waited and waited and still doesn't play him as much as he should. He didn't play more than 20 games in a season (for us) until 2007/08 when he would have been 22/23. That to me is hardly having faith in the youth teamers. Funnily (seeing as he's off) Dicko got more of a chance than Wilko in his early career. By the time he was 20 he had a 13 game season under TP in him. It's still not particularly ground breaking. Shotton is 22 and has had fuck all chance and was talking up a move to Barnsley in the summer. He seems to like Moult but I can't imagine him getting any real chance soon. And God knows what will happen with Marshall and Lund. They'll probably be at Chelsea next season!
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Post by nsd on Jul 9, 2010 23:20:35 GMT
Honestly, regardless of the distinct lack of youth players coming through our ranks in recent years, I have faith. I think if he is good enough then he will get games. People say all this about us not bringing through youth players, but you have to factor in our location, I mean we have clubs like Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Everton, Villa and a whole host of others around Stoke. And let's be honest, if a youth player has the chance to go to Stoke (who have next to no reputation for bringing through youth) or Man Utd (who have the reputation of allowing their youth to develop and giving them first team opportunities, as well as the relative size of the clubs), he would, nine times out of ten, choose to go to Manchester. It's a vicious cycle, one we can only hope to break out of by taking steps like this, buying in players to our academy and increasing its reputation until we are capable of attracting more local youth prospects and going from there.
I think it's absolutely fantastic that we are in a position to be actually spending money on players that won't go directly into the first team straight away, and that these players are willing to come here and try to earn their place in the starting eleven. We are actively building for the future and I can't wait to see how he develops. Youth academies are a huge part of club football and I think TP recognises this, especially with these new rules coming in about home-grown players. We can't keep relying on the transfer market (and we know how inadequate Stoke are in that respect the majority of the time!). There needs to be some turnover of youth and while I completely understand people's scepticism given Stoke's track record with youth, but I really think this could be the start of something, and also a statement to other prospective youth players, given how highly rated this guy is.
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Post by nsd on Jul 9, 2010 23:22:10 GMT
...and that ended up a lot more long winded than I intended.
tl;dr, I think this is great.
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