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Post by u2oxeterstokie on Jul 3, 2010 9:29:59 GMT
But they can't go to tribunal until he has signed The point being that if Stoke were confident that Cardiff would accept the players rather than the cash as compensation, then the whole thing could move forward. As Cardiff don't seem that keen on such a deal, it is directly having an effect on Ledley signing for Stoke (at the moment). So you are suggesting that it is actually Stoke holding up the deal and not letting him sign with the risk of another club coming in and signing him? I very much doubt it personally |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jul 3, 2010 9:30:52 GMT
This seems a bizarre story.
Surely we would expect to get more for Kits and Tonge than the £1.5m figure that most seem to be sugesting the tribunal would award Cardiff?
Unless of course we have had absolutely no firm interest in those pair?
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Post by stokemark on Jul 3, 2010 10:02:08 GMT
Worryingly fucking about over a very average player
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Post by wigginbird on Jul 3, 2010 10:09:29 GMT
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Post by AlliG on Jul 3, 2010 10:16:03 GMT
These regulations lay down global and binding rules concerning the status of players, their eligibility to participate in organised football, and their transfer between clubs belonging to different associations.Ilford. I have highlighted the relevant part to help your understanding  |
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Post by salifdiao on Jul 3, 2010 10:19:32 GMT
Ledley has agreed personal terms and has passed a medical, everything with the player is sorted.
Cardiff want 3m we will only offer that in player exchanges otherwise we will pay much less cash only.
As the player desperately wants to come we will eventually get this sorted but not until there has been plenty of wrangling.
Personally if we cant agree the player exchange deal then i would forget it as he isnt good enough to be spending around 2.5- 3m CASH on.
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Post by wigginbird on Jul 3, 2010 10:20:55 GMT
These regulations lay down global and binding rules concerning the status of players, their eligibility to participate in organised football, and their transfer between clubs belonging to different associations.Ilford. I have highlighted the relevant part to help your understanding different associations you say !!!!!!!! Cardif players are disciplined by the Welsh FA, Stoke players by the English FA ... .sounds to me like 2 clubs belonging to different associations to me |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jul 3, 2010 10:21:28 GMT
Ledley has agreed personal terms and has passed a medical, everything with the player is sorted. Cardiff want 3m we will only offer that in player exchanges otherwise we will pay much less cash only. As the player desperately wants to come we will eventually get this sorted but not until there has been plenty of wrangling. Personally if we cant agree the player exchange deal then i would forget it as he isnt good enough to be spending around 2.5- 3m on. Surely a tribunal wouldn't set the figure that high would it? Mind you Cardiff could argue we were willing to pay in excess of £6m for him two years ago and that would no doubt go against us.  |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jul 3, 2010 10:24:44 GMT
These regulations lay down global and binding rules concerning the status of players, their eligibility to participate in organised football, and their transfer between clubs belonging to different associations.Ilford. I have highlighted the relevant part to help your understanding different associations you say !!!!!!!! Cardif players are disciplined by the Welsh FA, Stoke players by the English FA ... .sounds to me like 2 clubs belonging to different associations to me It's a valid point Dave and certianly another topic to discuss. If they are happy to recieve compensation from Stoke due to us supposedly sharing the same accociation, then the question of why their players are accountable to the Welsh F.A. should be again highlighted. |
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Post by wigginbird on Jul 3, 2010 10:26:57 GMT
These regulations lay down global and binding rules concerning the status of players, their eligibility to participate in organised football, and their transfer between clubs belonging to different associations.Ilford. I have highlighted the relevant part to help your understanding Also, ALL of this ONLY applies to players who are young enough to be eligible for training compensation... my point was HE IS TOO OLD NOW The cut off point is aged 23, after the end of the season in which you reach 23, you are past the cut off point. He reached 23 in January, therefore from my reading of the regs, NO COMPENSATION should be paid |
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Post by AlliG on Jul 3, 2010 10:34:33 GMT
FIFA & UEFA consider that to be a technicality.
As far as they are concerned, Cardiff, Swansea & Wrexham play in the English Leagues under the jurisdiction of the English FA and therefore they are treated as though they were members of the same Association.
Remember the fuss when Cardiff reached the FA Cup Final. The English FA would not have put forward Cardiff to play in Europe but UEFA would have accepted them.
It is the same reason why if Cardiff were to win the Welsh FA Cup, UEFA would not accept them into the Europa League.
p.s. On age, within the "same Association" different limits can and do apply. In England it is 24.
Those are the rules. If you want to go to the European Court of Justice to complain, feel free.
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Post by wigginbird on Jul 3, 2010 10:38:03 GMT
Its a technicality we should exploit, why give the welsh fuckers any money, when we simply don't have to
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Post by AlliG on Jul 3, 2010 10:51:17 GMT
FA Regulation on transfer states
Technicality it might be but it makes no sense for a League Pyramid to have different rules applying to different members based purely on location. (Oh. And I agree it is a nonsence that they are disciplined by the Welsh FA)
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Post by stokelad84 on Jul 3, 2010 10:59:49 GMT
I can see why TP is trying to use the deal to get rid of Kitson and Tonge. We need to shift out bodys and we must be having no enquiries for them
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jul 3, 2010 11:05:41 GMT
I can see why TP is trying to use the deal to get rid of Kitson and Tonge. We need to shift out bodys and we must be having no enquiries for them That's true but realistically we must know that Kitson will not take a 50% pay cut. This story probably isn't even true as I doubt any of the players we have signed since coming up would take the drop in money that a move to South Wales would mean (unless we were subsidizing their salary.) |
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jul 3, 2010 11:33:43 GMT
If it happens it happens, not too fussed either way. I think we will struggle to get rid of Kitson and also possibly Beattie and their wages are a big financial burden. As has been mentioned above I'm surprised that we and other premiership clubs are not interested in Peter Whittingham he is their real quality player great delivery and scores goals which is the thing we need to add to our squad more than anything
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Post by march4 on Jul 3, 2010 11:34:23 GMT
This is exactly what I proposed was causing the delay when I posted on the New Signings thread last night.
I am not ITK, just a lucky guess.
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Post by stokelad84 on Jul 3, 2010 11:34:46 GMT
If wages are subsidised for just the first 12 months then we should do it IMO
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Post by madpotter on Jul 3, 2010 11:39:00 GMT
cardiff will want as much £££ as they can from us, after they rejected 6mil from us for him and they will want them money to pay off some of their ever growing debt.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 3, 2010 11:39:29 GMT
I think in more normal circumstances this kind of swap deal would benefit both sides. Tonge certainly is a good Championship player, and there is a good player in Kitson if his attitude is right and he feels wanted. But with the financial hole Cardiff and Ridsdale have dug themselves into, they obviously can't afford not to take the cash at the moment. I think that's the whole situation in a nutshell. Tonge is allegedly on £20k a week and supposedly priced Derby out of a move for him. Kitson will presumably be on even more than that. I don't see how Cardiff can afford them and I completely understand why they're desperate for cash. They shouldn't have been so greedy last summer or the summer before, really. |
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Post by march4 on Jul 3, 2010 11:51:37 GMT
cardiff will want as much £££ as they can from us, after they rejected 6mil from us for him and they will want them money to pay off some of their ever growing debt. Tribunal - they are in a weak negotiating position. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 3, 2010 11:51:52 GMT
And Tonge's got 2 yrs left here as well. If he's on 15-20k, he's got to go down as a major disaster, even though he's a decent footballer. No-one in the C'ship would get near that for a player like him, would they? We'd probably have to subsidise a fair whack of that for the next 2 yrs to shift him.
And you'd think we'd also be willing to pay at least 50% of Kitson's (20-25k?)wages for the final year of his deal to get him as far away from the club as possible.
What do you think they're valued at in the current market, assuming they're only ever going to interest middle-ranking C'ship teams who are relatively short of cash?
We'd probably do well to get a combined £1.5m-£2m in transfer fees for the 2 of them
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Post by madpotter on Jul 3, 2010 11:57:08 GMT
yes they are but their who case at a tribunal will be stoke offered 6 mil 2 years ago and he has become a key player for cardiff and wales and has captained his country and cardiff since then
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 3, 2010 12:24:43 GMT
The point being that if Stoke were confident that Cardiff would accept the players rather than the cash as compensation, then the whole thing could move forward. As Cardiff don't seem that keen on such a deal, it is directly having an effect on Ledley signing for Stoke (at the moment). So you are suggesting that it is actually Stoke holding up the deal and not letting him sign with the risk of another club coming in and signing him? I very much doubt it personally That's your perogative chap but it would seem perfectly logical (to me) that Stoke would want to keep themselves in as flexible a position as possible until everything has been thrashed out ... of course they'll be more than aware that this might open the door to other suitors but I guess they've taken the view, that they wont have their hand forced until they absolutely have to. |
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Post by NG4POTTERS on Jul 3, 2010 12:46:08 GMT
Tonge on 20k a week. Sums up a lot of what is wrong with our modern game  |
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Post by lordb on Jul 3, 2010 12:46:44 GMT
dont see what the problem is
the player is ours
we need to get rid of some players
no harm in trying to get Cardiff to do that deal,if they dont & we have to pay £2m whats the problem?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 3, 2010 12:49:14 GMT
I love how we're trying to offload our shit and no one wants them! ;D
Offer Kitson + money for Maynard, Coppell may actually want him.
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Post by NG4POTTERS on Jul 3, 2010 12:53:04 GMT
I love how we're trying to offload our shit and no one wants them! ;D Offer Kitson + money for Maynard, Coppell may actually want him. It's not just us lot who hear about their over inflated ego's mate. Mud sticks ;D |
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Post by scfclifer on Jul 3, 2010 12:54:30 GMT
I think in more normal circumstances this kind of swap deal would benefit both sides. Tonge certainly is a good Championship player, and there is a good player in Kitson if his attitude is right and he feels wanted. But with the financial hole Cardiff and Ridsdale have dug themselves into, they obviously can't afford not to take the cash at the moment. I think that's the whole situation in a nutshell. Tonge is allegedly on £20k a week and supposedly priced Derby out of a move for him. Kitson will presumably be on even more than that. I don't see how Cardiff can afford them and I completely understand why they're desperate for cash. They shouldn't have been so greedy last summer or the summer before, really. Cardiff were not being greedy that summer MD, I have it on very good authority that it wouldn't have mattered how much money was on the table from stoke when we bid for Ledley, whether it was £6m £8m £or £10m they would not have accepted it and were point blank refusing to do buisness with us due to the infamous chants directed at Dave Jones during his visit to the Brit that year. When his assistant threw a ball at the ballboys face and then Dave Jones and the rest of his team starting giving the St Johns Ambulance guy abuse, which resulted in around 20,000 stokies shouting peado at Jones, He took exception to this and told Risdale that if Ledley was sold to us he would quit, Risdale backed him up and its ended up costing them, When ledley found out that he was not going to be allowed to speak to us he kicked off big time and told them if he wasn't allowed to talk to us he would run his contract down and leave for free, which neither Risdale or Jones believed it would get that far, guess they were wrong ;d |
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Post by bloodypiles on Jul 3, 2010 13:01:55 GMT
the deal has gone through check the new signings thread
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