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Post by 16quidachuck on Mar 13, 2008 9:02:42 GMT
only 38% of players in england premier league english ??? i dunno whether i want this 6 man home national rule come in.give stoke a chance in premiership possibly. but prem teams would be crap in europe and the prem wouldnt be as good a league.arsenal probably get relegated haha have we got 6 englishman starting for stoke?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2008 9:07:43 GMT
The home grown players in each squad rule is not the answer.
More investment is needed in grass roots football to raise the quality of English players.
The reason there are so many foreigners in the premier league is because of there quality and the fact that they are better value in the market. As soon as a good young English player shows talent and potential you can stick a double figure transfer fee on his head (Wright-Phillips, Walcott etc). The fact is you can get similar or better players abroad for a cheaper price.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 13, 2008 9:40:04 GMT
More investment is needed in grass roots football to raise the quality of English players
Investment is required but also whats required is a fundamental shift in philosophy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2008 9:43:01 GMT
Whose philosophy? Players?
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 13, 2008 9:51:30 GMT
Collective change required. The only thing many say about the England team is we need more passion. Passion passion passion. The passion people want manifets itself by way of crunching tackles and putting your bonce amongst the boots. These are positive qualities to have BUT at World Cup/European Championship level you need more than that....but that is all some people want. Englands exits aren't to do with lack of passion its to do with a players lack of technical and tactical ability.
Youngsters should be encouraged to 'think football'. To consider possibilities and vary their individual games accordingly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2008 9:57:07 GMT
The problem is as soon as any young player makes it anywhere in todays game they have that much money thrust at them it goes to there head. It’s so easy to go off the rails and they can easily lose sight of the passion they had for the game as a kid and they just want to enjoy the play-boy lifestyle instead of furthering themselves as players.
This of course doesn’t apply to all players but it affects a lot. Foreign players are, in general, technically better than us. It’s been that way for years and it’s mainly down to the style of football adapted by different leagues. In Italy the game is slower, you get more space and time and they have a “passing” football philosophy. It’s different in England, it’s more direct, fast and physical, end to end football. With Capello in charge I imagine he will try to implement a passing ethos into the national team but I hope we don’t completely change. We need to find the right balance between the passionate, physical and pace side of our current game and the more technical side of the game.
The bottom line is, we’re England, not Italy. The best we can be is to be English, to try and be something we’re not is not the way forward IMO.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 13, 2008 10:06:01 GMT
At times Sven got that balance spot on.
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Post by Stick It On Cort's Head on Mar 13, 2008 10:12:20 GMT
We hoof it. Plain and simple.
Gerrard gets it for England and hoofs it. So does lampard and so does terry, ferdinand etc etc.
Perhaps our one exception is Joe Cole... But even then...
It's always been the same and i can't see it changing .
They haven't got the technique to win a major championship. Great power , desire and machine like play, but not the real skill which the Italians, Spanish,French or the Brazilians possess.
The game technically has moved on over a period on time, and England as a techinical unit hasn't moved on for a long, long time, where other countries have.
Having said that, we could've won, both of those penalty shootouts in 2004 and 2006 and we wouldn't be discussing this right now ;D
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 13, 2008 10:16:47 GMT
Our crapness in penno shootouts is indicative of the inferiors technical ability.
Someone like Alan Shearer saying practice doesn't help is indicative of the the head in the sand approach that brings us undone.
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Post by gilberto on Mar 13, 2008 10:17:22 GMT
Collective change required. The only thing many say about the England team is we need more passion. Passion passion passion. The passion people want manifets itself by way of crunching tackles and putting your bonce amongst the boots. These are positive qualities to have BUT at World Cup/European Championship level you need more than that....but that is all some people want. Englands exits aren't to do with lack of passion its to do with a players lack of technical and tactical ability. Youngsters should be encouraged to 'think football'. To consider possibilities and vary their individual games accordingly. this is spot on. there's also a really deep rooted problem going all way down to grassroots as low as under 11's. i go and watch my cousin play for his sunday team in this age group and some of the problems are obvious. 1. its all about winning. kids as young as 10 are applauded for hoofing it as long as they win. and as long as they're winning everyone's happy. no-one is properly encouraging kids to get it down and pass it. 2. power trip managers/parents who think they're jose mourinho. ive heard cases of 'managers' giving some kids in their team 10 minutes on the pitch each week and then if they havent performed come christmas actually rejecting them. then weeks when they havent got a game actually going to watch other teams and poaching their players. surely its all about giving kids a game at this age group and getting them to learn technique. this may be looking into it way too deep but i think this is where we're going wrong. and then, as you say, it comes to the england side and people are all about PASSION PASSION PASSION but we're MILES behind other countries when it comes to technique, passing, tactics and it can be traced all the way down to kids football. just look at the way croatia fully embarrassed us at wembley. they were actually laughing at us. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 13, 2008 10:25:39 GMT
There was an article by Jim White in 442 mag about his experiences coaching kids football. Some of it was actually quite upsetting. Children being bullied and verbally abused (by adults) for giving penalties away.
That Croatia game was a humiliation for England. They did us like a dinner. Played controlled efficient football and stifled us and used tactical flexibility to play their way to victory. And remember that was a game in which they had nothing to play for.
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Post by gilberto on Mar 13, 2008 10:31:23 GMT
yeah exactly. maybe some it of could have been put down to the manager because no-one seemed to know what they were supposed to be doing but still.... croatia showed us how the game should be played and they made it look easy. i like gerrard but players like him and terry are lauded for playing with 'passion' and hairing around like headless chickens, throwing themselves into tackles yet they actually struggle to breakdown so called lesser nations with proper football.
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Post by 16quidachuck on Mar 13, 2008 10:42:34 GMT
simply i think we charge 2 much 4 players .darren bent cost 17 million.arsenal paid 8 mil 4 francis jeffers also walcott 12 mil list goes on. this leads managers 2 look abroad.cheaper and better. who was the last decent premier english academy youth come through? rooney in 2002 was it? b4 then probs gerrard who since?
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Post by blackpoolred on Mar 13, 2008 10:44:21 GMT
Speaking as an outsider.. I think England have had the talent to win competetions; however they have never had the winning mentality… The Germans and the Brazilians go out to win a match – England go out not to lose.
In Mclarens final interview before the game with the Croatians, he uttered the words “ England must not lose this game”….. The whole of that game was played by players with fear…..The Germans or the Brazilians mantra would have been lets win the game by 4 goals and win the group…
No use having brilliant players if they are to scared to express themselves… England have had talented and gifted players for years and they certainly don’t lack bravery or Passion – watching them play though is like watching paint dry..
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 13, 2008 10:45:40 GMT
Well Mourinho once said bluntly that English just don't have the talent.
Svens worked with the best English players for 5 and a half years. Took over Man City with a big budget and hasn't bothered with anyone English.
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Post by gilberto on Mar 13, 2008 10:51:38 GMT
you could argue micah richards but then again he inherited him and he's still got a lot to learn before you could call him world class.
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Post by 16quidachuck on Mar 13, 2008 10:53:33 GMT
yh micah richards is good but not world class
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 13, 2008 10:59:14 GMT
Richards is potential but not the finished article. There's a lot to work with there though. He has many attributes that could make him a true world class player. BUT he needs to remember not to stray too far from the man he's marking when his team is attacking. To learn that not EVERY pass you make has to be a killer ball. That sometimes its OK not to be involved in a game oif the team is doing well. They are all issues of tactical awareness and maturity.
The fact he's one of the technically best English players to emerge for a while and he went through a Brazilian traning school says it all.
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Mar 13, 2008 12:16:52 GMT
The mentality of 'win at all costs' for junoir football has got to stop. Football should be about enjoyment at that level, and parents and coaches screaming at them to 'hoof it' and blast it away just don't help. If kids aren't enjoying football, they're not going to want to stay in the game. If you ever go to junior football matches, you'll hear phrases such as 'if in doubt, put it out', and 'Away!'. Stuff like this only encourages the young players to get rid of the ball as quickly as possible. they should be encouraged to keep hold of the ball, not to get rid as nsoon as possible. That is the reason we are miles behind other top countries, and will be for some time.
Also, there seems to be a lot of one touch football in junior coaching sessions. As good as it is to see this, kids need to have the ball at their feet, not encouraged, (again) to get rid of it as soon as possible.
We do need to change it at grass roots. If the young English players were good enough, I'm sure the likes of Wenger would have no problem playing them.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 13, 2008 12:21:07 GMT
One thing thats crap is kids plaing on full size piches. They don't get enough of the ball. They just wander around all game. They should be playing on small pitches were the emphasis is on controlling and using the ball in small areas.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Mar 13, 2008 12:26:21 GMT
Maybe the standard of the Prem needs dropping to give other domestic teams a chance to compete? It'd make clubs shit in CL/ UEFA but do we really care?  |
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Mar 13, 2008 12:28:21 GMT
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 13, 2008 12:36:48 GMT
In that he artuculates exactly what I feel.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Mar 13, 2008 12:51:26 GMT
I have very little interest in the English football team. Is that a bad thing ???
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Post by lordb on Mar 13, 2008 13:14:02 GMT
whats really damning is there have been many people espousing small sided games for junior football for DECADES now & its still very patchy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2008 13:34:35 GMT
' its all about winning. kids as young as 10 are applauded for hoofing it as long as they win. and as long as they're winning everyone's happy. no-one is properly encouraging kids to get it down and pass it.'
I reckon most football supporters would agree with that apart from the hypocrites in our own support who advocate the same methods to gain promotion.
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