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Post by stafflad on Feb 10, 2004 14:47:27 GMT
My My we are incredibly pc on this board some times. If players are good enough they will get in a team. Why should Leicester or anyone else for that matter play a player for reasons other than ability. Racism goes both ways but we can't talk about that can we.
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Post by bebscfc on Feb 10, 2004 14:52:44 GMT
Your right, Racism does go both ways, And yes most people on here are PC, and if someone is out of line you get moaned at. I just wish other people would see racism goes both ways, and not just whites that are the racists
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 15:02:53 GMT
I can remember Tony Meola the USA keeper saying that during a friendly game (USA won 2-0) that Ian Wright verbally abused him all through the game with anti American comments etc I wonder had roles been reversed would Ian Wright claimed it was racist abuse? Personally I can't see why Meola couldn't have reported Wright to FIFA for racist abuse.....do you have to be black/Asian to be racially abused? I think many comments Garth Crooks comes out with are racist. Saying that a player doesn't get a proper chance at Leeds because of his Asian background is racist towards the club I feel. I think he should have his mouth clamped, be publically flogged and sent to Devil's Island for fourty years for such a comment. I will quite happily pay the fare
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Post by bebscfc on Feb 10, 2004 15:05:46 GMT
Everyone deep down has racist elements about them , Some show it more than others. To accuse a club of being racists because they dont employ asians is totally unacceptable. In Football your either good enough or your not.
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Post by slangking on Feb 10, 2004 15:08:16 GMT
I remember when I left this one job, showing in the new candidates, I brought this asian woman in and the boss grimaced and it was obvious why. Utter bullshit to say that the best person is always employed.
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Post by stafflad on Feb 10, 2004 15:12:19 GMT
When was the last time you heard about a person from a racial minority being accused of racism ?. You now have to treat certain people more warily than anyone else for fear of being accused or for fear that they cloud the real issue with an accusation of racism. Anyone who manages people will know what i mean.
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Post by bebscfc on Feb 10, 2004 15:19:32 GMT
What gets me is that we can actually get in trouble for using words such as "nigger" yet coloured people themselves call themselves the exact same word, Whats going on with that?
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Post by Admin on Feb 10, 2004 15:20:09 GMT
Everyone deep down has racist elements about them , Some show it more than others. You speak for yourself matey-boy and don't think you speak for everyone else. You're right on one thing; racism cuts many, many ways but not everyone thinks like that. I make my decisions based on character, not skin colour or ethnic background. The reasons many Asians tend to play in Asian leagues in this country is because they know full well the abuse they'll get on the pitch from other teams if they were fully integrated. We all know exactly what would happen. It is far harder to be a minority and endure abuse than it is if you're amongst the overwhelming majority. It wasn't a hundred years ago that Irish people and Catholics could find themselves the target of the kind of abuse that the Asian community sometimes suffers. I'd like to think a change for the better is in the offing but as someone whose children go to a racially mixed school it is clear for me to see that attitudes on both sides of the divide are as hard as ever - depressing when you're talking about children! Gloomy or what? Smudge
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Post by bebscfc on Feb 10, 2004 15:25:15 GMT
Everyone gets abuse on the football pitch no matter what i think. I know in my football team everyone gets stick and we will give it back. Weve never had an asian or coloured player with us.
Does that make us a racist football team then?
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Post by Admin on Feb 10, 2004 15:37:28 GMT
There's getting stick and there's getting stick.
Calling someone a fat bastard is not the same as calling someone a black bastard or a Paki bastard. There's abuse and then there's abuse.
If you've not turned anyone away from your football team because of their colour or creed then what have you done to be racist?
Smudge
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Post by ks on Feb 10, 2004 15:43:40 GMT
I think everyone gets a little precious when the issue of Racism comes up. The blindly-PC crowd start getting on their high horse, and more depressingly those who have been waiting for a PC-backlash come out from under their stones and start giving it the 'pakis have it easy' bollocks.
Bottom line is you can't assume that because of some physical chacracteristic that a person will be like all other people with that characteristic, and that applies to colour, gender, hairstyle, cloesness of eyes together, size of their earlobes or any other criteria your particular small-town view may determine.
On the other hand, no group should expect preferential treatment or to be protected from the every day tit-for-tat banter that everybody has to be thick skinned enough to deal with.
Question is, how do we encourage the black and asian population to come through the ranks in football. Not making use of such a large chunk of our population is to the detriment of our national team and the game as a whole. I guess you've got to make your mind up whether this is because of racial abuse, cultural differences or a bit of both. Pragmatically, I reckon it's a bit of both. Maybe an all-asian league is one way of getting over the cultural barrier to getting asians into the game, and integration will follow?
KS.
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Post by bebscfc on Feb 10, 2004 15:47:58 GMT
I reckon its because there has been no asian players good enough to break through the ranks, Im sure if they were good enough they would be in there. No Doubt About it
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Post by ks on Feb 10, 2004 15:52:43 GMT
Yeah, but perhaps that's because there's not enough Asians playing the game. I don't know about round your way, but the number of asian players on the 5-a-side courts and sunday league pitches is well below the proportion of asians that live around here. Question is, how do you redress the balance end get more asians playing the game?
KS.
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porsche007
Lads'n'Dads
SO LONG STINKTOWN !!!!
Posts: 77
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Post by porsche007 on Feb 10, 2004 15:56:22 GMT
I think one of the main points we forget is that as a kid it was my dads dream for me to be a footballer i guess and im sure most people on here are the same. He got me into the game at an early age etc (usual story)
Been friends with a few asian people at college and uni their childhoods generally are based around family, religion and education. There is still a very strong pressure to become well educated and have a proffesional career as a lawyer/ doctor etc, and this is the reason why there are not many quality asian players at the moment
I do agree with Smudges post about the racism - we all know if there was a pakistan footballer who provoked as much controvesy as say beckham, savage or dennis wise the usual idiots would have a field day with the comments - i think we are many years away from this not happening IMHO
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Post by bebscfc on Feb 10, 2004 15:58:09 GMT
Im our league (staffordshire and district premier) there is no asians. I suppose there is quite a bit of tension in the races, but why should they not join in? im sure alot of asians get abuse in school (longton high my old school is a well known case) THey dont stop going to school.
I think they pick and choose wether to put up with it or not
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Post by rower on Feb 10, 2004 16:02:07 GMT
Why is it that when someone says Asians,that others automatically think,Pakistani`s and Indian`s , what about Japanese and Chinese,who are represented in English football at the very highest level (the premiership). Football is changing and if anyone person is good enough to play professionally then they will be employed,regardless of colour or background. the myth that only white men can play football only toffs can do rowing only middle-class snobs play rugby only fat bastards play darts,its all total bollox. how many Asians do you see playing these sports?? if someone down the match so much as whispers the word black or paki then they will be looked upon by most (unfortunately not all) around them as being an ignorant jerk-off. and as for whites and Asians not playing in the same side as each other,come watch us play cricket in the summer. yeh! racism does swing both ways you only have to look at that one-eyed hook handed preacher of racial hatred Hamza,but it doesn`t mean you have to hate them back.(except him of course ;D)
rower
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 16:11:11 GMT
I think the myth of white men and football Rower is dying or has done. I want to know why no small folk are in the NBA...I find it a disgrace and a slur on wee people everywhere. Football is the most cosmopolitan sport in the world. If you're good enough etc..... As for darts, don't think that's a myth though
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Post by rower on Feb 10, 2004 16:14:07 GMT
JR ! it is a myth that only fat bastards play darts. the truth is that only fat bastards are any good at it ;D
rower
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 16:16:34 GMT
probably because they're closer to the board I suppose.
Why are there no young trendy Bowls players with streaked mohicans and combat pants? Why do all 10 pin bowlers look like Harold Bishop?
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Post by Robo10 on Feb 10, 2004 16:24:49 GMT
Sorry boys but I think some of you are talking off on a tangent here
You can't relate whether young Asians are playing in your Sunday leagues etc - Pub culture isn't a particularly popular pastime for most Asians I know and lets face it, most of us that get up at some ridiculous time every week to play in the frost and hail don't do it because we are brilliant at football!
There are a couple of good local Sunday sides that are more Asian/Black orientated (Cobridge United as an example), but its just a shame that they feel they have to group together and play as a unit rather than being welcomed into existing sides.
My wife teaches (at Longton High) where there is a significant Asian population. The school has won various trophies at Cricket over the past number of years, but many of the lads that played (that happened to be Asian) were not welcomed by local clubs, and were generally frozen out and drifted away from the game. Its a sad waste and unfortunately once the enthusiasm has gone then any potential has gone too.
It will take time for integration to happen, and things are significantly better than say 20 years ago - Lets hope its not another 20 and we are still talking about it.
The point remains though, that currently there are no players of sufficient quality to be included in a League side - Could you honestly see Man Utd or Arsenal turning away a player or not selecting them based on the colour of their skin?
Mark my words though, as soon as one player breaks through and is successful, many will follow. Asian football (including Japan, China, Korea, Australia) will be a force to be reckoned with over the next 10 years.
We've seen it with Africa since Black players started to filter through in the 70's - We've already seen the first Asian players in the Premiership (Li Tie, Inamoto).
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Post by bebscfc on Feb 10, 2004 16:29:04 GMT
I used to go longton before i got kicked out, NOw i go sandon
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Post by ks on Feb 10, 2004 16:31:54 GMT
Of course, part of the whole football deal is watching it. I can tell you now that if I was an asian bloke on the Boothen End during the (thankfully) brief spate of "We Hate Pakis" chants that went on a while back, I would have never bothered attending another match. Loyalty to your community is very difficult when that community make it so vocally obvius that they don't want you. This doesn't aid the whole integration 'one of the lads' feeling that most football fans are in it for. Playing it comes as part and parcel of belonging.
KS.
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 16:42:25 GMT
See what you mean KS but I don't think that is the reason they don't come through as players.
I do believe the lack of an Indian/Pakistani player (without as Rower says calling them Asian) is a more to do with the individuals themselves. I do believe a role model will cause more interest but I don't believe they are being hindered from creating one.
If you look at nations like Japan, Korea, Cameroon etc they have developed in footballing terms and have strong players at the top level. These other countries haven't followed suit. Until they do their players will not play at the highest levels as they simply are perhaps not good enough.
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youthster
Academy Starlet
You gotta stay positive
Posts: 135
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Post by youthster on Feb 10, 2004 16:44:59 GMT
i run a fun/social 11-a-side team in london and the side has a good racial mix. also a good mix of young lads and old blokes (like me!). i will not tolerate racism and it has never been an issue in our team, apart from once. one of our players was racially abused by an opposing player, quite loud enough for a few to hear. i asked him to repeat what he had said within earshot of the ref and league organiser, which the dimwit was happy enough to do. he was banned from the league as a result, and good fucking riddance! the moral is, i guess, that it's not easy to form a racially-mixed team and it requires the majority (whites) to be actively supportive - zero tolerance of racism.
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Post by Hooky on Feb 10, 2004 16:46:38 GMT
racism does cut both ways, always has, trouble is some people go OTT, and are trying to make up for what happened in the past.
Sorry that doesn't wash with me, you can't charge a son for his fathers crimes in law, so why should we be held moraly accountable for our ancestors actions, all we can is say "they were wrong to do it that way"
anyway ... football & asians, I find the problem is that many asians who follow football refuse to go to live matches for fear of being racially abused, also many feel no attatchment to the area they live in (for WHATEVER reason) and as such choose to follow a succesfull team, as they don't identify with their local team, they try to identify themselves with a success & glory, just the same way all gloryhunters are. I walk round Ilford< and see the tops worn by young local asians, and they all wear 3/4 tops: Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool & Chelsea... very very rare to see any other worn by them
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 16:51:58 GMT
Why do they wear 3/4 tops? Do they have belly button piercings?
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