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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 10, 2004 10:18:05 GMT
A report states that football is institutionally racist.
The Independent Football Commission (IFC) says greater efforts have to be made to include ethnic minorities at every level of the game.
How do you do that? Any ideas anyone?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2004 10:51:06 GMT
"A report states that football is institutionally racist." a statement of the bleeding obvious unfortunately You only have to hear some of the comments that come from the stands to know it Joe. How to tackle the problem is a very difficult one, and like with most things you have to concentrate on the young to be able to somehow tackle the issue. I think that racial hatred generally stems from ill-education. The more varied the ethnicities say at U-11's level (at a professional academy or in a local league) then surely this will help youngsters understand that it matters not what the colour of your skin is, but how many times they can stick the ball in the net that's important! In the professional game as it stands, I honestly believe that it needs to be stamped out by the individual clubs. A policy of non-toleration amongst the playing staff is a must. Although I understand Louis Boa Morte's reasons for bringing the situation with Duncan Ferguson into the public, I honsestly believe that it would be better resolved internally and between the two clubs.
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Post by BigDick on Feb 10, 2004 10:57:39 GMT
Is it football Joe, or football supporters? Most clubs have a number of black players in their squads but the early 'pioneers' had to endure some terrible treatment and that must have put many off. Maybe that is what is holding back those of Asaian origin? How else can you explain why no players of Indian or Pakistani background are in, say, Leicester City's first team? Most footballers suffer abuse from opposition fans so anything that makes them 'different' also makes them a target - even 'simple' things like baldness, weight, long hair, red hair, the fans pick up on it and give 'em some stick. Hopefully it won't be too long before we see the first home grown ethnically asian footballer in the top flight, and maybe even playing for England. Whoever that might be though will have to be so commited and resilient, ask John Barnes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2004 11:08:21 GMT
BigDick, Have you read that recently Leicester have linked up with the Indian FA and the top league side there? Will be interesting to see if anytning develops from that. Would be great to see an asian fella break into the international team at some level - obviously if they're good enough! Here is where the problem lies, how many asian lads are encouraged to join a local club at an early age? Even in Leicester? Tended to see more asian lads playing Cricket rather than nogger myself.
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 10, 2004 11:18:38 GMT
Big Dick, the implication is that football is. The main pointer in the report is that so few managers directors and administrators are black.
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Post by BigDick on Feb 10, 2004 11:38:19 GMT
In some respects it's easier for Directors etc to come from non-white backgrounds. All you ned is money and no sense ;D Take the Kumars at No 42...er I mean Birmingham City, or Sam at Cardiff, Al Fayed at Fulham. They don't have to face the fans in such a 'full on' situation and, of course, they have already 'made it' socially and financially.
EMP, yes, I have been following the LCFC initiative, some cynics reckon it's just a marketing ploy, but who knows. Apparently, in London, there are whole leagues of asian footballers, so there are p[lenty playing, just not for top clubs, strange really.
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 11:47:35 GMT
Mark Lawrenson made an iteresting point when Garth Crooks was having one of his idiotic rants , that Asians are not encouraged as youngsters to play football which I thought was a fair decent point. There are all Asian teams, we played one in Salop recently but there are statistically very few who look to get into the sport permanently.
I don't think in comparison to the 70s and 80s a racist problem in football anymore. I'm sure you will hear the odd comment, chant etc but hrdly a big issue.
Crooks claimed that Singh at Leeds didnt get a chance due to his background, what utter nonsense. A racist comment if there was one. Risdale was quick to point out that in this day and age with players coming from every continent , clubs could hardly afford to be prejudice. If a player was good enough he would play despite his race.
Garth does seem to enjoy bringing up racist issues where there isn't really one.
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 10, 2004 11:49:55 GMT
The subject is being debated on Radio5live now.
Theres someone from Everton on.
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 10, 2004 11:52:14 GMT
Remember though Crooks was racially abused by his colleagues while he was a player. This may have left a scar on his mind.
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 11:53:36 GMT
Wish someone would leave a scar on his big racist gob
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Post by abharsair on Feb 10, 2004 12:04:16 GMT
Bury had a top Indian International on their books for years, he may still even be there....he played in the 1st Division when they were there
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Post by abharsair on Feb 10, 2004 12:05:23 GMT
Haven't derby got a couple on their books too?
I can remember at Alexandra Junior's we had an asian lad in the football team and he was mint, no idea what happened to him though.....
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 12:07:52 GMT
Abharsair...the lad at Bury was Singh who I referred to above , he was originally on loan from Leeds.
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Post by Pricey on Feb 10, 2004 12:10:10 GMT
They had another player JR, striker I think, decent little player.
Dunno what his name was though. ???
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 12:14:37 GMT
Yep
Bhutia you're right
Good little player as well.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2004 12:20:09 GMT
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Post by bebscfc on Feb 10, 2004 13:14:50 GMT
Soon they will be building pitches at the mosque ,and from what i just saw on the news there is more asian teams being created, already have an asian league, If they are goin to call it the asian league then take it over too asia.
We already have welsh playing in our leagues. This country is getting less and less English by the day
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Post by ks on Feb 10, 2004 13:16:12 GMT
The issue of a shortage of black managers isn't really helped by Chris Karmara doing for popular black managers what Margaret Thatcher did for women prime ministers. ;D
Seriously, though with the experience black and asian players had playing infront of crowds 20 years ago the fact that any make it through to become a manager or a ref now is a miracle. You can only hope that the game becoming a bit more cosmopolitan of late we may see the situation redressed in time.
KS.
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Post by ks on Feb 10, 2004 13:18:25 GMT
Cosmopolitan? I spoke too soon...
KS
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 13:25:39 GMT
I don't think we need token black or Asians. We have black and Asian refs, they have equal opportunities to come through the ranks so I cant see what the problem is.
The game is more cosmopolitan than it's ever been . We have orientals good enough to sign for top clubs, I'm sure if Asians are up to the grade then they will do the same. The standard of football in Asia is way below Africa and the Far East hence no imports. You can't tell me for one minute that clubs reject players etc because they are Asian.
We had a letter here the other day saying that as an employer of 50 people I should employ an Asian. Why should I? If I have an Asian APPLY for a job who is the best candidate then he will be employed. Until then the issue is closed. Makes no difference where they come from if they are best suited. Are you seriously telling me that clubs can afford in this current climate to be prejudice against ONE ethnic background?
I'm sure if players come through the ranks THE SAME as everyone else then they will play professionally. Until then .....
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youthster
Academy Starlet
You gotta stay positive
Posts: 135
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Post by youthster on Feb 10, 2004 13:29:21 GMT
Cosmopolitan? I spoke too soon... KS best not accuse him of reading a chick's magazine - maybe england's getting less male by the day too
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Post by bebscfc on Feb 10, 2004 13:31:24 GMT
If they are good enough they will play for a club, But if they arent, they can moan about it all they want because we are racists for not accepting them into the game.
I think stoke are a bad club too, For not letting me into their team because i was born on a wednesday.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2004 13:31:31 GMT
JR, I don't think that anyone here would argue that an Asian person should be picked simply because he's Asian? You're right, we should live in a meritocracy. I think the debate stems from whether people from a specific background do not have the opportunities to progress because of the (perceived) racial prejudice indiginous to the game?
Agreed that the game has come a long way in the last couple of decades though.
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 13:38:21 GMT
EMP.....20 years ago maybe. See your point but i can't argue that today.
Singh at Leeds, Chopra at NCastle have come through and I'm sure more will. As I said above Mark Lawrenson made good points in a documentary saying how professional football was still frowned upon as an occupation for Asian families still. As far as I'm concerned it's something they themselves have to address, look how football has developed in Korea, China etc in recent years. If they have Asian leagues etc then I'm sure there is more chance of players pushing on if they are good enough and importantly if they are willing to.
Certainly not IMHO racism amongst the clubs, easy to point the finger and say that, leave that to Garth Crooks etc
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Post by Pricey on Feb 10, 2004 13:38:26 GMT
The fact of the matter is asians should not be setting up their own league. If they claim racism as a reason not to join in with predominantly white leagues then they should make more of an effort to get to know white people instead of going off in their own black and asian groups.
The same can be said of most white people who choose not to try and gain greater contact with people of a different ethnic background.
Unfortunately I think it has gone beyond trying to do this now, and we have no chance of becoming one mass of people because the majority of people choose to be with people of their own race and culture.
JR:
That's unbelievable.
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Post by JR on Feb 10, 2004 13:42:32 GMT
Wasn't quite how I worded it at the time Pricey.
I actually thought it was scandalous that someone could send such a thing and tell us who we should and shouldn't employ.
As I said, IF THEY APPLIED then they would be considered. In 18 years to my knowledge not one has. Bollox to them if I should go looking to suit some equal rights nonsense. We've had employees from many ethnic backgrounds over the years, that was utter crap.
We've never had a Columbian or and Egyptian I don't think. Should I look for one of them as well?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2004 13:48:55 GMT
Pricey, integration is indeed a problem, and must be overcome IMHO. But to say that it has gone too far I think is a mistake. In the FA report/article I posted at the top of this page it states of initiatives put in place since the mid-90's, and asian players have been breaking into professional clubs (as a result of such initiatives?)
Also, it touches on a key aspect at the end, and that is the idea of the 'role model'. More players in the league (and good enough to play at the highest levels!) then more youngsters will be encouraged in the same way as they have in other sports, such as cricket and hockey for example.
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Post by Pricey on Feb 10, 2004 13:55:45 GMT
I meant in life in general EMP. I really cannot see a group of mixed (white and asian) lads acting as a normal group of mates ever, not in S-O-T anyway.
With regards to football, the F.A. have acted at the right time but should be spending more money in that area than they are spending in other areas; most notably the re-development of Wembley Stadium.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2004 14:05:13 GMT
Agreed Pricey, when I was at Loughborough (still the same now too I propose?) you would always tend to find groups of Asians sitting together and everyone else sitting separated in lectures (on a social level anyways). But when I lived in Stoke and when I was at Loughborough, I WAS socially integrated with Asian people, and a close group of us (about 7) would hang around together. I even lived with my mate Indapaul during my second year. And none of us 'took sympathy' on him or any such bollocks - he had it ripped out of him in the same way as the rest of us did!! ;D
It can be done, so no need to be so downhearted on your fellow man my friend.
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Post by Pricey on Feb 10, 2004 14:11:22 GMT
Indeed EMP, the first friend I made here was Asian. Can't say we're great mates but there is much more integration at university because most people don't judge on first impressions and previously held prejudices.
There are of course exceptions to my 'rule' everywhere, its just that from my experience in Stoke I don't think integration will ever happen to an acceptable level. That's just the way it is.
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