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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 27, 2023 7:44:42 GMT
www.theguardian.com/inequality/2023/nov/27/uk-spends-more-financing-inequality-in-favour-of-rich-than-rest-of-europe-report-finds“When compared with the top five most equal countries, however, inequality costs the UK £128.4bn a year in damage to the economy, communities and individuals.” “The report found that the richest 1% in the UK are the most expensive top 1% group in Europe, paying the lowest taxes of such a group in any large European country. ” “Many of Britain’s deep-seated problems – a broken economy, hollowed-out public services, static and falling living standards, the doubling of child poverty since the late 1970s, and the fall in social resilience – can be traced to the way the economy has been turned into a cash cow for the already rich,” Yet some on here raise doubt in the need to focus tax increases on the most wealthy in the UK on here. I guess they would prefer the “have nots” keep subsiding the “haves”. Tax the rich people more. Improve public services for everyone. Reduce inequality. Reduce poverty.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 21:26:03 GMT
When you think just how much tax payer's money has been completely blown on this ridiculous charade! 🤦♂️ Surely it goes against all our brexit britain principles to try to interfere with another country’s laws and therefore sovereignty!
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 19:32:30 GMT
I just don’t like that this recent “discovery” about what happens to assets when people die without a will or relatives to inherit being somehow Charles’ fault! It has been going on for generations. It should obviously change but there we go. It's been a long standing arrangement, but on the understanding that proceeds were recycled into charities - not taken directly by the Duchy for home improvements. That said I doubt Charles knew - probably never thought to ask - or appointed someone to ask for him. Likewise his mother before him. Where Charles is fair game though is that he is the one who claims to want to modernise the monarchy, cut down on pomp and circumstsnce and arcane arrangements and reduce to a core of full time working royals giving value for money. So far he's done anything but. I guess this is a good opportunity for him to change this particular thing (if indeed he has the power to change it).
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 18:43:48 GMT
It is strange how nobody complained about these long standing conventions that have been well known about for years when the Queen was a live. Not sure that's true. There has been plenty over the years about the Queen's tax affairs, exemptions from Inheritance tax fact that payment is purely voluntary etc. There was also quite a chunk about the late Queen in the Paradise Papers about iffy offshore investments. Bother to search and there are plenty of other examples too. However there is a large constituency who either take no interest or just shrug and say 'so what?' aided and abbetted by a compliant press who either don't report it, just play it down or print a photo ofva beatific Kate and just move on. Hence a collective amnesia for such things. However you do make a valid point in that Charles doesn't have the popularity of his mother - so over time some of the shit might start to stick. I just don’t like that this recent “discovery” about what happens to assets when people die without a will or relatives to inherit being somehow Charles’ fault! It has been going on for generations. It should obviously change but there we go.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 13:45:40 GMT
It is strange how nobody complained about these long standing conventions that have been well known about for years when the Queen was a live.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 12:33:48 GMT
I bet you could produce similar charts for the government borrowing, debt, the deficit, and then the state of pretty much every public service: schools, prisons spaces, court waiting lists, teaching vacancies, nursing vacancies, care home staff vacancies etc etc etc. In fact, I challenge someone to name a public service which is running better now than it was when the tories came into power. Have they improved the state of anything at all? The ability to migrate to this country for work, study etc? Has that improved? Some people can come here far easier (non-EU migrants) but EU migrants cannot come here as easily. Net migration has increased enormously post brexit, but is that a good thing at the levels we now have? I would like to think that if we had proper investment in the workforce who are already here, and offers weren’t given to businesses to employ from abroad rather than from here (which the Tories currently do and Labour oppose), levels of net migration would be lower and that would be because the domestic workforce had been upskilled/invested in.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 12:00:34 GMT
Anybody who thinks that the NHS wasn't just as bad under Labour, doesn't know what they're talking about ... I bet you could produce similar charts for the government borrowing, debt, the deficit, and then the state of pretty much every public service: schools, prisons spaces, court waiting lists, teaching vacancies, nursing vacancies, care home staff vacancies etc etc etc. In fact, I challenge someone to name a public service which is running better now than it was when the tories came into power. Have they improved the state of anything at all?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 25, 2023 16:04:58 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 17:16:24 GMT
Perhaps. We know the current tories are incompetent. We cannot definitively say the same about anyone else as they haven’t been in charge. I'd say there's a fair to even chance that a career politician from any party would be considered incompetent by anyone who has to function in the real world. You may well be right. Starmer isn’t a career politician.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 17:13:49 GMT
I also see no difference to what Putin is doing in Ukraine and Netanyahu in Gaza to what is happening here…think about the words you use. That's nothing to do with us, I believe people should look after their own land and the people in it instead of meddling in international affairs that have nothing to do with them. The problem with this country is we have too many 'do gooders' both in parliament and public, they see Britain as a settling area for all the world's waifs and strays at the expense of their own. What a shit show. You can't keep doing that and steer clear of conflict yourselves in the dumping ground you've created You miss the point. Putin and Netanyahu carpet bombing cities and rolling tanks into foreign territory, killing thousands. That is an invasion. A drip feed of asylum seekers coming here the only way they can and then claiming asylum here under laws we have chosen to be part of, and most of them being granted leave to remain living here. That is not an invasion. Do you see the difference? Also, we take very few asylum seekers compared with other rich European nations. So very few actually come here.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 15:28:29 GMT
What is your definition of an invasion? 70'000+ from another part of the world turning up in a space of 2 years unannounced in blow up boats with no passports. Enough to fill old trafford of young fighting age men. Just under half the amount of the whole British armed forces, in 2 years I also see no difference to what Putin is doing in Ukraine and Netanyahu in Gaza to what is happening here…think about the words you use.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 15:26:27 GMT
The Dutch have voted for the anti-islam anti immigration populist. trouble ahead ?37 out of 150 seats. The highest of any party but nobody has agreed to go into coalition with them without them watering down their position. Forming a government will be tough.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 13:20:26 GMT
The Resolution Foundation thinktank says this will be the first parliament on record in which household incomes in real terms will be lower at the end than at the beginning. But I thought it was labour who had the reputation for economic incompetence!? Sadly I think you can apply that label to all politicians nowadays. They all to freely give it away,none of them treat it like it's their own to invest wisely. Perhaps. We know the current tories are incompetent. We cannot definitively say the same about anyone else as they haven’t been in charge.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 13:00:12 GMT
The Resolution Foundation thinktank says this will be the first parliament on record in which household incomes in real terms will be lower at the end than at the beginning.
But I thought it was labour who had the reputation for economic incompetence!?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 12:54:23 GMT
Property Tax, Wealth tax, whatever you want to call it. It is just a label. It is about taxing the people who won’t even notice it to pay for public services the wider population desperately need improving. That coupled with closing loopholes would generate a lot of money. Some may leave. But I expect the majority of people worth over £10m wouldn’t permanently leave their home just because they have to pay an extra 1% of tax a year. I’d increase that percentage as wealth increases. Prohibiting being a landlord as a business and so preventing companies owning buy to let residential property would be an option I would explore. Housing should be seen as more of a need and less of a commodity. I would also tax air bnb/short term letting profits at much higher level regardless of overall income, and remove the ability to deduct expenses to reduce tax. They destroy local communities and make it so there are no rental properties for locals who need to rent a home close to their children’s school. In a ideal world a lot of your ideas on property have merit We don’t live in a a ideal world as thousands of landlords leave the property sector the number of houses for sale would in all likelihood crash the property market This would be political suicide nobody is likely to vote for a party that’s halved their inheritance or plunged them into negative equity Yes there is a balance to everything and radical ideas generally need to be done slowly over time. Sadly no government plans anything long term beyond the next election cycle.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 12:53:08 GMT
Not with any competency or morality. Totally agree with that but can the government dictate to what they do as they're an independent body? They can pass laws so essentially yes. For example, why not pass a law to pin the energy price cap closer to wholesale prices?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 10:05:45 GMT
Yes I know, but what’s so bad about Stockton? The MP for North Stockton asked why a third of the children in his constituency were living below the poverty line and Cleverley shouted out "because it's a shithole!" Why did he say that? Because he's an utter bastard. And the correct answer would have been “because we have had a tory run government for the last 13 years”
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 10:04:24 GMT
The Home Sec called it a shithole in Parliament today Yes I know, but what’s so bad about Stockton? I’ve never been so I don’t know
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 10:03:54 GMT
Because wholesale prices for suppliers are not that much more than they were 2 years ago, but the amount we pay as consumers is up 50% at least in 2 years. The government should regulate the profit margin or at least tax the profits of these companies at 99%. It is why energy should be nationalised ideally (it would be unaffordable now hence the need for the green energy company Labour will set up, and regulations to reduce share prices of the private companies) Doesn't Ofgem control and regulate that though? Not with any competency or morality.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 10:03:28 GMT
And Reeves put the ball in the empty net in her reply to Hunt yesterday and pointed out this sleight of hand. The problem Labour has is if they unwind what the Tories have done, it creates huge problems for the public purse. That is partly why the Tories have done it. The tories have unleashed austerity again with this statement as departmental budgets must be cut and savings must be found as their budgets are not linked to inflation. Labour are expected to repair the economic damage of the tories whilst also improving public services. That is going to be difficult but the money is there in the hands of the rich, and they just need to work out the best way of taxing them to pay for the mess made by their Tory mates of absolutely everything in this country. I must have missed what Reeves said yesterday. What has she said Labour will increase the threshold to ? She didn’t. She called out the tory fake tax cut. I guess we have to wait for the manifesto before knowing the full taxation policy
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 9:50:23 GMT
And that's the governments fault how exactly? Because wholesale prices for suppliers are not that much more than they were 2 years ago, but the amount we pay as consumers is up 50% at least in 2 years. The government should regulate the profit margin or at least tax the profits of these companies at 99%. It is why energy should be nationalised ideally (it would be unaffordable now hence the need for the green energy company Labour will set up, and regulations to reduce share prices of the private companies)
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 9:45:53 GMT
I’m not sure where you are getting your figures from, but in 2015 it raised €5.22bn in France. Not loads but many times more than €2m. If it led to people leaving which overall reduces tax revenue then it may not be the right thing to do. There are plenty other things that could be done to tax wealth. Closing IHT and CGT loopholes and taxing CGT at the same level as income tax would be a start. A 50%tax on income over £500k or on any income if your capital is worth over a certain level. Tax dividends and other non earned income the same as income tax levels (inclusive of NI). Personally I would get rid of NI, measure state pension contributions another way and simplify the tax code. I don’t think it is right that Rishi Sunak pays less tax as a percentage than me. I have high income but very little capital. Why should I be taxed more than multi millionaires? France does not have a Wealth Tax per se since 2018 It has a Tax on Property which generates about 1% of all Taxes raised in France You keep changing the agenda I totally agree that the UK Tax Code should be reformed and earned and unearned income should be taxed at the same rate and deductables should be scrapped and I have said so 3 or 4 times already on this thread and beforehand The headline figure of Revenue raised does not take account of the negative consequences of Revenue lost which is why the vast majority of Countries that did have a Wealth Tax no longer have. Individuals are not static and can alter their practices to avoid paying tax if it's convenient and easy which most Countries discovered I realise you have a particular issue with high value Property not being Taxed (which would be a Property Tax not a Wealth Tax) while you struggle to get on the ladder in the location you reside If you want to die on the cross for a Wealth Tax so be it, I've said all I've needed to say on the subject. Property Tax, Wealth tax, whatever you want to call it. It is just a label. It is about taxing the people who won’t even notice it to pay for public services the wider population desperately need improving. That coupled with closing loopholes would generate a lot of money. Some may leave. But I expect the majority of people worth over £10m wouldn’t permanently leave their home just because they have to pay an extra 1% of tax a year. I’d increase that percentage as wealth increases. Prohibiting being a landlord as a business and so preventing companies owning buy to let residential property would be an option I would explore. Housing should be seen as more of a need and less of a commodity. I would also tax air bnb/short term letting profits at much higher level regardless of overall income, and remove the ability to deduct expenses to reduce tax. They destroy local communities and make it so there are no rental properties for locals who need to rent a home close to their children’s school.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 9:39:07 GMT
Henry on your about £32,500 Annual Salary if the Tax Thresholds had been raised normally in line with inflation in September 2022 and 2023 the frozen £12,571 at which you pay 20% Tax would have been £2,500 higher meaning you would pay £500 less Tax If this sleight of hand makes you happy, good luck with that. Open goal for Labour then. What was Reeves stance on the raising of the income tax threshold of £2500 at your party conference? And Reeves put the ball in the empty net in her reply to Hunt yesterday and pointed out this sleight of hand. The problem Labour has is if they unwind what the Tories have done, it creates huge problems for the public purse. That is partly why the Tories have done it. The tories have unleashed austerity again with this statement as departmental budgets must be cut and savings must be found as their budgets are not linked to inflation. Labour are expected to repair the economic damage of the tories whilst also improving public services. That is going to be difficult but the money is there in the hands of the rich, and they just need to work out the best way of taxing them to pay for the mess made by their Tory mates of absolutely everything in this country.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 22, 2023 23:05:13 GMT
Be grateful you don't live in Stockton. Why? The Home Sec called it a shithole in Parliament today
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 22, 2023 23:01:01 GMT
Taxes raise revenue if you close the loopholes. So there has to be the will to actually do it. But that is a different argument entirely and one I introduced and support Wealth Taxes have proved to ineffective and sometimes counter productive which is why the majority of countries which did have them abolished them years ago If a Wealth Tax were introduced how much more would UK raise more than the €2 Million France raise? I’m not sure where you are getting your figures from, but in 2015 it raised €5.22bn in France. Not loads but many times more than €2m. If it led to people leaving which overall reduces tax revenue then it may not be the right thing to do. There are plenty other things that could be done to tax wealth. Closing IHT and CGT loopholes and taxing CGT at the same level as income tax would be a start. A 50%tax on income over £500k or on any income if your capital is worth over a certain level. Tax dividends and other non earned income the same as income tax levels (inclusive of NI). Personally I would get rid of NI, measure state pension contributions another way and simplify the tax code. I don’t think it is right that Rishi Sunak pays less tax as a percentage than me. I have high income but very little capital. Why should I be taxed more than multi millionaires?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 22, 2023 20:00:36 GMT
And France has a wealth tax. We need lots of measures to tax the rich as the rich pay less tax proportionally on their assets and income than anyone else. It is profoundly wrong. And it led to a mass exodus of high net worth individuals when it was introduced in 2012 The Revenue collected peaked in 2016 at €5M in 2021, the most recently recorded, it dropped to €2M It is mostly symbolic which is ironic as it replaced IFI which was a "Solidarity Tax" Don't get me wrong I Think the UK Tax Code is a shambles with far too many loopholes that never get repealed. Jesus Christ we recently had a Chancellor of the Exchequer who was done for Tax Avoidance I just don't think a recurrent Wealth Tax would raise much and could be counterproductive which is why many Countries that had a Wealth Tax now don't Taxes raise revenue if you close the loopholes. So there has to be the will to actually do it.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 22, 2023 19:17:37 GMT
Many other countries do it. We could if there was the will. Austria, Denmark , Germany, the Netherlands, Finland, Iceland, Luxembourg, and Sweden all abolished Wealth Taxes most in 1990s Only Norway, Spain and Switzerland within Europe still have Wealth Taxes Even in those Countries it raises a negligible amount 1% 0.5% and 3.5% respectively of all Taxes raised Liquid Assets are mobile as are Tax Havens accessible And France has a wealth tax. We need lots of measures to tax the rich as the rich pay less tax proportionally on their assets and income than anyone else. It is profoundly wrong.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 22, 2023 17:48:00 GMT
You cant though can you when theyve come in boats, it's a national security risk, they dont come with passports and i.d. Assuming ( on the very slim chance) they're all workers of course What happens when the jobs dry up and we go into recession? 700'000 net migration forecast this week. More competition for your job = employers with the ace card on pay offer and more on benefits 700,000 don't "come in boats" though. Only about 5% of that total do. The other 95% are here perfectly legally having passed all Home Office requirements. And once finally processed, about 2/3rds of those 5% also have a perfectly legal right to come.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 22, 2023 17:46:28 GMT
I’ll give you the easy fix. Make the record numbers of billionaires and multimillionaires who profited enormously during covid and the cost of living crisis pay a small percentage of their massive profits to fund better public services. A wealth tax of 1 or 2 percent for anyone worth over £10m, at the same time as regulating to ensure people cannot hide behind businesses, would raise a huge amount. Easier said than done imo - extracting money after its been given is a far more difficult prospect. They wont simply have a pile of cash, it'll be diversified into all sorts of assets. Many other countries do it. We could if there was the will.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 22, 2023 17:29:00 GMT
Are you though? Most of the furlough money went to already mega rich twats who know how to play the game and the system, while 'working' people including the horrifically treated self employed were shat on There is a reason the rich stay very rich and nobody else has a chance - amazing how many firms 'appeared', got massive contracts and/or payments, then disappeared or went bankrupt leaving a trail of destruction and tax payer debt behind. It is Labour policy to go after some of the fraudsters. It is Tory policy to let them off.
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