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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 22:20:15 GMT
Thanks for your answer Wannabee. In respect of the The Illegal Migration Act 2023 ... does " arrive here illegally " mean the means by which someone arrives in the UK ( What is a " legal" way , realistically, if the intention is to get here and then claim asylum....illegal by deception?) Or someone whose application for asylum is deemed a failure/ illegal? Is a country expected to accept an endless flow of immigrants....if that number reaches, say, 10 m in 10 years Or 25m in 20 years?
Just to add to wannabee's excellent answers ... your question above, goes to the very heart of the current issue.
That being, for the vast majority of asylum seekers, there is no longer any way for them to arrive on UK shores legally. The Government has to all intent and purposes, removed the routes previously available to asylum seekers, save for those from the Ukraine and Hong Kong and theoretically (although in practice not) Afghanistan.
The only way you can apply for asylum in the UK, is if you present yourself in person on British soil, however, now if you arrive on British soil without a visa, then you are deemed to be arriving here illegally and thus your application won't even be considered. So, even if you are a genuine asylum seeker, as there is no other way to reach Britain to have your case considered but by arriving by small boat, your case will never be heard.
The UK is essentially telling the world, that it will no longer consider applications from any asylum seekers (save for the ones mentioned previously), which is a violation of international human rights law.
97% of asylum seekers from Eritrea and Afghanistan were previously granted asylum in the UK, as we recognised that their cases were indeed genuine, however, now, those cases won't even get to be heard.
The French have offered to house UK immigration centres in France, so that asylum seekers can be processed and have their application heard, BEFORE setting off across the channel on a small boat but even though this would dramatically decrease the amount of small boat crossings of the channel, the British government is simply not interested in working with the French to this end because it isn't interested in granting asylum to anybody at all.
This is worth a 2 minute watch ...
wannabee, please feel free to amend any part I may have misrepresented. Thanks
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 19:30:16 GMT
Thoroughly deserved for Everton!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 19:22:23 GMT
Not heard an atmosphere like this at Goodison for years!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 18:45:26 GMT
So nothing to do with him then? Not his fault in the slightest?
Absolutely Dave ... the utter gall of the man, how stupid does he actually think people are?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 16:53:43 GMT
What specific examples are you thinking of Cobs? I'd personaly like to think that when I think the police need (imo) to be commended, I'll say as much and if I believe they need to be criticised, I'll also say as much. The riots in Bristol was one case. The incident with the 2 lads in Wales on the e-bike being another. There’s loads. I’ll do some digging when I have a bit more time. It was all about what the police did wrong with zero responsibility to the other parties involved. The post wasn’t a dig at you it was a generalisation. I didn't think it was mate, no worries. I was just interested in your point.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 16:50:57 GMT
Dude ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 15:48:34 GMT
The way this young copper deals with such outright provocation from Fox, is a credit to his uniform. Is this what we mean by 2 tier policing? What is fascinating is that there’s plenty on here that aren’t usually so defensive of police that are fighting their corner over the last week when there’s been equally bad behaviour that’s been defended in the past. I guess that’s politics and who the aggressor is. What specific examples are you thinking of Cobs? I'd personaly like to think that when I think the police need (imo) to be commended, I'll say as much and if I believe they need to be criticised, I'll also say as much.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 12:23:20 GMT
Quote me on that then.
Oh that's right, you can't because you're a liar phil.
i'm not a liar
i'm pretty sure it was you
can't remember the thread probably nhs but cud've been immigrant , or brexit related
summat about someones relative ( yours ? ) receiving excellent teatment from immigrant nhs workers ... that was the jist anyway ... nhs would fall apart without them
not saying it wouldn't by the way , but saying that , i've heard some terrible things and experienced some dodgy treatment from " immigrant types " who may not be as qualified as it says on the label.
So you're not even sure it was me and you can definitely claim that you're not a liar ... jesus listen to yourself?
And you're not even sure what thread it was on?
Well the thread we are currently on is the uncontrolled immigration thread and the post you replied to was Badge replying to your suggestion of letting them all in.
There is a huge difference between controlled immigration and uncontrolled immigration, although I recognise, that you probably don't understand the difference between the two but hey, that's hardly my fault.
So I didn't say that without uncontrolled immigration that the NHS would collapse but rather, that if we didn't have immigration at all, then the NHS would collapse and it would - it's a demonstrable fact.
As for your last comment ... blimey phil.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 12:02:46 GMT
More top trolling from Foyles! 🤣
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 11:38:19 GMT
Frightening but I guess that nobody is that surprised ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 11:10:00 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 10:25:03 GMT
The way this young copper deals with such outright provocation from Fox, is a credit to his uniform.
Is this what we mean by 2 tier policing?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 9:51:39 GMT
Defend 'terrorist sympathisers' for what exactly and when knype? What orders did the police ignore? So there was not trouble at the Pro-Hamas protest? not peace march by the way! The police treated the crowds different yesterday than the Pro Hamas
I would like you to explain in what way I have defended 'terrorist sympathisers' (which is what you accused me of) and explain what I was defending them of doing and when I did it. Is that not a reasonable request to make of you?
And if possible, explain what orders were given to the police yesterday and how did they ignore them?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 9:46:27 GMT
Let's say these people wanted to jump in boats and go to Ireland. Would you want our police to stop them and keep them here? How did they get here in the 1st place? Stop that, then you stop them trying to goto Ireland
You're completely missing the point he is making.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 9:21:42 GMT
WTAF?
It's like being mugged in broad daylight with Sky News recording at the scene and the perpetrator doesn't give a flying fuck because he knows that nobody is going to do anything about it!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 9:16:39 GMT
Or the French police could have stopped them in the 1st place Let's say these people wanted to jump in boats and go to Ireland. Would you want our police to stop them and keep them here?
Exactly.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 9:09:48 GMT
Then fucked off to deprived areas like Stoke on Trent spence said in an earlier post that london's health and social care would fall apart without them .
Quote me on that then.
Oh that's right, you can't because you're a liar phil.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 9:03:48 GMT
In your opinion not mine,the met are shit scared of offending our Muslim population It's just another edited video, the police weren't even heavy handed. Did they close the pub? Who knows. If they did they probably had a good reason for it but you only get clips of what they want you to see not what actually happened. The police weren't shoving people, it looked like they were quite calm given how much shit they were getting There's so many people with an agenda, unless I see it with my own eyes I don't believe much to be honest It's absolute bonkers isn't it? The police DIDN'T storm in, they WEREN'T heavy handed and they WEREN'T shoving people around. It's like they write such bollocks and then don't even expect you to watch the video that they've posted, which contradicts their version of events! 🤦♂️
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 7:51:53 GMT
That's a fair and considered answer Cobs. I'm just gobsmacked at the mental gymnastics that some posters will go to, in order to blame the police today.
And the same gymnastics to defend terrorist sympathisers and not see that he police yet again dealt with crowds that got rowdy and ignored their orders differently Defend 'terrorist sympathisers' for what exactly and when knype? What orders did the police ignore?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 22:15:18 GMT
Absolutely staggering that somebody would even put those thoughts down in actual words.
Really, it tells you all you need to know about Vennells.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 21:45:49 GMT
So you don't agree with the people that have suggested that what has happened today, is an example of two tier policing today then Cobs? To be fair I haven’t seen what’s happened today so I can’t pass judgement. What I would say is that policing isn’t deliberately 2 tiered but can appear that way because of the way stories are reported in the media which on occasions can spark things into happening because people get frustrated as they feel there’s a bias and that the Palestinian protestors are getting away with bad behaviour that they don’t feel they would (understandable when you look at some of the reports) under similar circumstances which I imagine grinds. Do I think there’s bad on both sides? Damn right I do. Do I think that the Palestinian protests have been dealt with leniently? Probably yes. Though I think that the reason is more down to numbers both of protestors and police rather than anything more sinister. I don’t remember there ever being an issue with St George’s day before but I do believe that the deliberate drip feeding of stories around the Palestine protests has caused people to get angry and frustrated (which I can understand) and as is often the case the most vocal take to the streets as they look on St George’s day as a way of showing there pride for there country. What I would say is that those behaving badly don’t represent the vast percentage of the population who are just as patriotic but don’t want to fight the police. If it’s as I’d imagine all the behaviour would have done today would be to fuel the left wing into judging and staking their claim that every English person as being some pissed up hooligan which is a million million miles from the truth.
That's a fair and considered answer Cobs. I'm just gobsmacked at the mental gymnastics that some posters will go to, in order to blame the police today.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 20:39:30 GMT
You brought it up Badge, nobody else. So where are these full facts that you've got? Darren Grimes in his attempt to prove two tier policing above, couldn't find anything to corroborate your claims.
It clearly showed stuff being thrown at the police and them standing and doing nothing. Couldn't see any TSG police there either?
Why would you make that up, when the video is there for everybody to view?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 20:22:44 GMT
It's not unreasonable to ask for something to help understand why you've come to that opinion though, surely? I'd take it as a compliment that your opinion is valued to the point you're expected to back it up. As opposed to Knype, who's opinion is formed by the pattern left in the bowl of his coco-pops. I look at stuff a few months after the occasion, I’m sorry I don’t keep an up to date diary. You don’t see me ever post a link immediately after the event. I just don’t want to incite immediate reaction. I keep it to what I know and I’m fine with that. I could, if I could be arsed and didn’t need to go to work every morning present some stuff but it’s probably wasted on here as by the time I’ve got the full facts the conversation has gone onto something else
You brought it up Badge, nobody else.
So where are these full facts that you've got?
Darren Grimes in his attempt to prove two tier policing above, couldn't find anything to corroborate your claims.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 19:47:44 GMT
Do you have a link to this please Badge? I don’t unfortunately since I’ve got eyes and indeed ears to form an opinion rightly or wrongly. 99% rightly obviously. The trouble is, some of you lot rely wholly(sic) on links from, let’s say, dubious accounts. That is your news, you don’t use experiences or wait for facts. You climb all over sanctimonious Twitter posts to make a point. Some may well be valid but mostly there is more to the issue at hand. So what experiences and/or facts do you have of plenty of violence occurring at the peace marches and the police being told to turn a blind eye to it then?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 19:42:52 GMT
Do you have a link to this please Badge? So no 'plenty of violence' as Badge suggested. Don't you think if Grimes COULD find examples of 'plenty of violence', or peace protesters attacking the police, to make his point, then he would have used them. So why do you think might be the reason that he actually hasn't then?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 19:36:40 GMT
I don't see an example of two tier policing. What I see, is people who have been asked to march in a particular area attempting to ignore the instructions of the police and go somewhere else, if they HAD have stayed in the area that had been agreed with the organisers, then it's perfectly reasonable to assume, that the trouble wouldn't have even started. When Tommy Robinson and a thousand of his mates rucked up in November, 100 of them got arrested and a number of police were put on hospital. Now there have been numerous peace marches where 500,000 people have turned up and using the same percentages that would have resulted in 50,000 people being arrested. But we haven't seen anything remotely like those numbers arrested, indeed when we have seen 500,000 peace marchers turn up we haven't even seen 100 people arrested. Do you know why this is? It's because the peace marchers have no interest in attacking the police. Anyhow, are you going to condemn the police horse being attacked today? Yes, it's disgusting and he's rightly arrested. When you say peace protest why do lots dress in Hamas garb ? Why chants about obliterating Israel ? Why damage property and monuments ? I bet you also defended the BLM protest marches ? Thanks for answering the question Knype. 1. Because they're dickheads who make up a tiny minority of those attending. 2. 'From the River to the Sea' is not a chant about obliterating Israel but is rather a chant about Palestinians being free of their occupiers. Actually you can find examples of Israeli politicians making the same claim. 3. Because they're dickheads who make up a tiny minority of those attending. 4. Nope, I was actually critical of BLM and especially of people taking the knee, as many people on here remember. And as an anecdote I don't agree with all your viewpoints but I do have to say I remember in lockdown you posted one on a BLM thread that was one of the best thread ending posts I ever read.......sadly it didn't end the thread. But that's because its the oatcake, its what we all do 😆 🤣
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 19:28:02 GMT
I don't see an example of two tier policing. What I see, is people who have been asked to march in a particular area attempting to ignore the instructions of the police and go somewhere else, if they HAD have stayed in the area that had been agreed with the organisers, then it's perfectly reasonable to assume, that the trouble wouldn't have even started in the first place. When Tommy Robinson and a thousand of his mates rucked up in November, 100 of them got arrested and a number of police were put in hospital. Now there have been numerous peace marches where 500,000 people have turned up and using the same percentages that would have resulted in 50,000 people being arrested. But we haven't seen anything remotely like those numbers arrested, indeed when we have seen 500,000 peace marchers turn up we haven't even seen 100 people arrested. Do you know why this is? It's because the peace marchers have no interest in attacking the police. Anyhow, are you going to condemn the police horse being attacked today? The only thing you’ve done there is give an example of two tier policing isn’t it? There was plenty of violence going on in those so called peace marches and the coppers were told to turn a blind eye. Do you have a link to this please Badge?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 19:12:11 GMT
I don't see an example of two tier policing. What I see, is people who have been asked to march in a particular area attempting to ignore the instructions of the police and go somewhere else, if they HAD have stayed in the area that had been agreed with the organisers, then it's perfectly reasonable to assume, that the trouble wouldn't have even started. When Tommy Robinson and a thousand of his mates rucked up in November, 100 of them got arrested and a number of police were put on hospital. Now there have been numerous peace marches where 500,000 people have turned up and using the same percentages that would have resulted in 50,000 people being arrested. But we haven't seen anything remotely like those numbers arrested, indeed when we have seen 500,000 peace marchers turn up we haven't even seen 100 people arrested. Do you know why this is? It's because the peace marchers have no interest in attacking the police. Anyhow, are you going to condemn the police horse being attacked today? Yes, it's disgusting and he's rightly arrested. When you say peace protest why do lots dress in Hamas garb ? Why chants about obliterating Israel ? Why damage property and monuments ? I bet you also defended the BLM protest marches ? Thanks for answering the question knype, I genuinely will come back and answer yours but I've just had my tea put on the table. 👍
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 19:08:44 GMT
Christ alive. I even specifically asked you if that was the point you were making and in your reply you didn't deny it. 🤦♂️ You're an embarrassment. Arguing over nonsensical shit. Get a life ffs. 🤠
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 19:05:40 GMT
Paul asked Knype for clarification on a single point, the attack on the Police Horse. Knype chose not to answer the question as is his prerogative There have been various threads on this MB about Horse Racing and debates and whether it's cruel to Horses. Some who were quite sure it was have commented on the the current thread but have expressed no opinion 🤔 Did Paul answer my question over the 2 tier policing ? I don't see an example of two tier policing. What I see, is people who have been asked to march in a particular area attempting to ignore the instructions of the police and go somewhere else, if they HAD have stayed in the area that had been agreed with the organisers, then it's perfectly reasonable to assume, that the trouble wouldn't have even started in the first place. When Tommy Robinson and a thousand of his mates rucked up in November, 100 of them got arrested and a number of police were put in hospital. Now there have been numerous peace marches where 500,000 people have turned up and using the same percentages that would have resulted in 50,000 people being arrested. But we haven't seen anything remotely like those numbers arrested, indeed when we have seen 500,000 peace marchers turn up we haven't even seen 100 people arrested. Do you know why this is? It's because the peace marchers have no interest in attacking the police. Anyhow, are you going to condemn the police horse being attacked today?
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