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Post by garyhackett on Jul 21, 2009 11:17:24 GMT
Whether you want to believe it or not the way we play football has a big bearing on who we can sign. Thats not a dig at Pulis but thats just fact.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 21, 2009 11:22:11 GMT
Whether you want to believe it or not the way we play football has a big bearing on who we can sign. Thats not a dig at Pulis but thats just fact. Yeah I could see that if we were competing with Arsenal or Man Utd but we're not, we're competing with the likes of, Blackburn, Bolton and Hull. A player who turns us down for a club like that for 'footballing' reasons, is an imbecile.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2009 11:23:38 GMT
Whether you want to believe it or not the way we play football has a big bearing on who we can sign. Thats not a dig at Pulis but thats just fact. Do you mean in terms of who we target or in terms of attracting players?
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Post by GeordieDave on Jul 21, 2009 11:23:56 GMT
Whether you want to believe it or not the way we play football has a big bearing on who we can sign. Thats not a dig at Pulis but thats just fact. Very true indeed. You only need to go back to last autumn to hear Whitehead moaning about us in the North East press. Whilst I dont have any objections to his signing, Ive seen more of him than most on here, and he is a capable player deserving of the benefit of the doubt he would be a two-faced bastard if he did put pen to paper. I cant be arsed finding the article/s but he slagged us off big time. I imagine Sidwell and his like have to factor in style of play. When all said and done the wages are going to be par outside the top six so players will undoubtedly factor in style, city and reputation. Those on the "up" seemingly give us the swerve, and we get those on the down seeking rehabilitation. I suppose the trick is looking for those like Lawrence who have a bit to prove and have it in the locker to begin with.
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Post by Stephen Frys' Ring on Jul 21, 2009 11:25:33 GMT
GeordieDave I like the cut of your jib,sir ! Three very sensible posts indeed, hear hear ! I usually love it on here for peoples different points of view,but some just come on for argument or because they cannot see the wood for the trees (thick-don't know owt abite nogger) Would rather have Scholes than most but maybe the club shop management could do with a little tweaking So again,well said Geordie
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 21, 2009 11:26:59 GMT
I agree our media reputation may effect us but the reality of the situation is that at least 7 other clubs (40% of the entire league) play a game similar in quality and approach to ours. You'd think people actually inside the game would realise this over the views of pissed up journalists and big eared broadcasters?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2009 11:36:15 GMT
The only thing that will stop us signing the right players his WAGES.
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Post by GeordieDave on Jul 21, 2009 11:45:30 GMT
I agree our media reputation may effect us but the reality of the situation is that at least 7 other clubs (40% of the entire league) play a game similar in quality and approach to ours. You'd think people actually inside the game would realise this over the views of pissed up journalists and big eared broadcasters? I think a lot of the better players will question our ability to stay in the PL. Second season syndrome and all that bollocks. Whilst the reality is we finished comfortably in mid table and beyond several of the clubs we're competing with I think most people (players, agents, press) would see that as a bit of a fluke. And perhaps it was. We'll only know next May. If I was a Crouch I'd choose Sunderland or Fulham ahead of Stoke as my next club. I'm Stoke mad, but I'd see Sunderland as a club on the rise under Bruce or I'd want to live in London. Nothing sinister. The wages are so obscene now that I believe money is secondary. Whether Crough gets 90K at Sunderland, 75K at Fulham or 50K at Stoke it really is splitting hairs and other factors will come into the equation. Why wouldnt they?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 21, 2009 11:53:12 GMT
I suppose then it comes down to shopping at the right level GD. I think there is a fine line between improving the squad and chasing rainbows.
I certainly don't think style of play is as high up on a player and his agent's concerns as hackett seems to suggest. If that was the case Mourinhos Chelseas would not have attracted the players they did. Now they play much better football but are less succesful they are finding it more difficult to attract top names.
Just look at Eastlands for what players and agents really care about. £££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
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Post by garyhackett on Jul 21, 2009 12:06:01 GMT
The only thing that will stop us signing the right players his WAGES. Dont agree mate, we have already lost out on players not through wage issues but for footballing reasons. Players are very conscious about how they will fit in at a new club as they dont want to be a flop. You only have to look at Kitson as the perfect example of this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2009 12:10:10 GMT
I have to agree with mutley: -
Tone “I think you will fit in well here Peter” Crouch “I need to weigh up my options still” Tone “The crowd will make you feel like a god. They are an amazing bunch. The best out there” Crouch “I’m still not sure, I think I need to see what else is out there. This may not be the best decision for my career right now” Tone “I will build my team around you. You will be the main man here” Crouch “I’m just not sure if the style of play suits me. I don’t think this is the right choice for me right now. Sorry Tony” Tone “We’ll offer you 90k a week” Crouch “Where do I sign”………….(picks up phone, dials number)…”Pack your bags Abby, we’re moving to Stoke”
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Post by march4 on Jul 21, 2009 12:11:02 GMT
The only thing that will stop us signing the right players his WAGES. Dont agree mate, we have already lost out on players not through wage issues but for footballing reasons. Players are very conscious about how they will fit in at a new club as they dont want to be a flop. You only have to look at Kitson as the perfect example of this. Well said, a lightweight, ball playing, midfield player would be mad to sign. The players we sign will know from last season that they are going to be expected to put a shift in, especially when the opposition have the ball.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2009 12:13:13 GMT
march i totally agree about putting a shift in but the greedy bastards known as footballers want rewarding big style for it.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 21, 2009 12:13:28 GMT
Wages maybe a slight issue but then again Beattie is on 36k a week so its not like we pay peanuts. Compared to some other clubs this is minimal and the next bracket of player is on I'd say 50-70k, would be prepared to pay the lower end of that for say a Sidwell, if he was willing to come? That is the crux of the matter, the willingness of the Chairman, CEO and TP to as what they value the player and if they are willing to pay it. If Sidwell was available on 50k a week would we be prepared to push the boat out for that little bit of extra quality?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2009 12:15:45 GMT
bayern only Mr Coates can answer that question but do we really want to go down that direction and put the future of the club in some sort of doubt?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 21, 2009 12:20:34 GMT
I agree muttley it would put the finances under strain but we are willing to pay 36k a week for a player so the step up from that although big isn't all that. I think Coates for the right player would pay 50k a week but no more, just my opinion though based on where we are. I don't think in reality having a player on 36k a week for a club like us is sustainable and puts the finances in doubt. However, based on what has happened PC appears to think it's ok, based on the wages we already pay.
It is a massive quandry though, to make that next step in quality of player we either need to trust the foreign market more and get players in on a bit less from abroad or fork out obscene amounts on domestic players. It is a position where I am glad that it's not my money or my decision.
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Post by GeordieDave on Jul 21, 2009 12:20:35 GMT
I have to agree with mutley: - Tone “I think you will fit in well here Peter” Crouch “I need to weigh up my options still” Tone “The crowd will make you feel like a god. They are an amazing bunch. The best out there” Crouch “I’m still not sure, I think I need to see what else is out there. This may not be the best decision for my career right now” Tone “I will build my team around you. You will be the main man here” Crouch “I’m just not sure if the style of play suits me. I don’t think this is the right choice for me right now. Sorry Tony” Tone “We’ll offer you 90k a week” Crouch “Where do I sign”………….(picks up phone, dials number)…”Pack your bags Abby, we’re moving to Stoke” To disprove your thesis I will donate a testicle if the following is not true. And given we'll never know I'll keep hold of them for now and offer the following assumption. Crouch has four offers on the table . Stoke will pay at 120K a week, Sunderland will pay 90K, Fulham 80K and Spurs 70K. Crouch would go to Spurs. He would go to Spurs because of the history of the club, its more glamarous standing and high profile manager. It will keep him in the limelight for the World Cup next year and will feed his ego. Spurs being one of the most famous clubs in the world and all that. He'll think he can win things, play in Europe. He wont give a fuck about the money. He has enough. When you are a millionaire several times over do you really give a chuff for an extra few grand a week? Not much fun earning 90K a week and living in the North East when you can earn 70K and live in one of the world's best cities and be close to your family and friends. It was once about money, its about much much more than that now.
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Post by gilberto on Jul 21, 2009 12:29:25 GMT
i suppose it depends on the player really. adebayor has just given up champions league football and a guarateed starting place at arsenal for the money at man city. we're hearing that john 'mr chelsea' terry may even do the same!
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Post by A-teen_six_T3 on Jul 21, 2009 12:30:50 GMT
It was once about money, its about much much more than that now. As much as I agree with a lot you say Dave, i dont in this instance... With a lot of players its more than just money, those are the types are players we want at the club but for players like cisse, diouf, M'Bia it's very much about money and I'm glad we havent signed any of these Some one like Ashton for example will choose Stoke to ressurect his career. he has something to prove...he will choose Stoke and its not about the money... thats what the whole DNA argument is about...we want players with the right attitude!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 21, 2009 12:33:09 GMT
The fact that he'd choose Spurs is hardly to do with how we play football right now though is it? It's to do with over a hundred years of tradition and relative success.
Style of play probably comes into it a little but if its in the first half a dozen things a player and his agent are concerned about, I'd eat something unedible.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 21, 2009 12:34:57 GMT
I'd imagine though the biggest draw for Crouch at Spurs now is 'Arry.
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Post by thebet365 on Jul 21, 2009 12:44:31 GMT
Wages maybe a slight issue but then again Beattie is on 36k a week so its not like we pay peanuts. Compared to some other clubs this is minimal and the next bracket of player is on I'd say 50-70k, would be prepared to pay the lower end of that for say a Sidwell, if he was willing to come? That is the crux of the matter, the willingness of the Chairman, CEO and TP to as what they value the player and if they are willing to pay it. If Sidwell was available on 50k a week would we be prepared to push the boat out for that little bit of extra quality? So your up in arms about signing a player that's willing to leave a club that he's captain of and it's in all sense and purposes a bigger club with bigger aspirations for the season, and he's willing to leave that behind and start a fresh with us. Yet your hoping and praying that we'll push the boat out and sign a player that saw out his contract and walked out on the club that made him, all in the name of abramoviches money and has now started only 20 odd games in 2 years at 2 different clubs?? No thanks.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 21, 2009 12:51:45 GMT
Tbh I couldn't give a shit. Edit-about the DNA side, especially when it comes to money-greed is abundant in all walks of life.
Whitehead-decent midfielder, limited talent but a worker and an efficient footballer.
Or
Sidwell, scores a few goals, passes well, works 'ard and is a massive improvement on what we have.
It's a no brainer really if we are willing to pay the money. And also if You got a pay rise at another club, would You not take it? I would, You'd be daft not to. At the end of the day he has showed at Reading and when he has played for Villa that he is exactly what we need. A hard worker but with added quality.
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Post by GeordieDave on Jul 21, 2009 12:52:17 GMT
The fact that he'd choose Spurs is hardly to do with how we play football right now though is it? It's to do with over a hundred years of tradition and relative success. Style of play probably comes into it a little but if its in the first half a dozen things a player and his agent are concerned about, I'd eat something unedible. Given Spurs have traditionally played with two wide men I imagine Arry will be telling him we'll put the ball on your head and you'll score a hatful and will therefore be in the England 22 (hopefully) flying out to RSA in 2010 .... so I suppose style is a factor but I agree its only a small factor.
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Post by GeordieDave on Jul 21, 2009 12:57:28 GMT
It was once about money, its about much much more than that now. As much as I agree with a lot you say Dave, i dont in this instance... With a lot of players its more than just money, those are the types are players we want at the club but for players like cisse, diouf, M'Bia it's very much about money and I'm glad we havent signed any of these Some one like Ashton for example will choose Stoke to ressurect his career. he has something to prove...he will choose Stoke and its not about the money... thats what the whole DNA argument is about...we want players with the right attitude! All three of those are African. Two of three have chosen clubs in warmer climates that play in Europe. Ironically both have chosen clubs in cities that have a disproportionately high number of Africans living there and both cities are two hours closer to "home". I think we could have been offering both players twice the wage in England and they would still have gone abroad. Cisse and Diouf are genuinely high net worth individuals already, dont know about the other younger lad.
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Post by Timmypotter on Jul 21, 2009 13:14:35 GMT
I don't think the money will make too much difference to the more established prem players.
If I'm offered twice my pay with a different employer then it'll make a big difference to me. I can buy a big telly, move to a nicer house in a nicer area, get a better car.
If I'm a footballer on 25k a week (about 850k per year after tax) and I'm offered 40k (about 1.3m per year after tax) what real difference will that make to my lifestyle. The answer is it won't make any difference at all. I'll still have a big telly, a nice house in a nice area, a nice car, and be able to retire comfortably. However, which team would I rather play for? Which team will suit me, and which team am I more likely to win competitions with? Which area is best to live in? Those would be my real motivating factors.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 21, 2009 13:44:15 GMT
I don't think the money will make too much difference to the more established prem players. If I'm offered twice my pay with a different employer then it'll make a big difference to me. I can buy a big telly, move to a nicer house in a nicer area, get a better car. If I'm a footballer on 25k a week (about 850k per year after tax) and I'm offered 40k (about 1.3m per year after tax) what real difference will that make to my lifestyle. The answer is it won't make any difference at all. I'll still have a big telly, a nice house in a nice area, a nice car, and be able to retire comfortably. However, which team would I rather play for? Which team will suit me, and which team am I more likely to win competitions with? Which area is best to live in? Those would be my real motivating factors. The above doesn't explain much of the recent ativity at Man City though Timmy does it?
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Post by stokie25 on Jul 21, 2009 13:52:04 GMT
You make some very valid points Timmy, but in the closed circle from reality that prem footballers live in, i do wonder if it's a dick measuring contest of who can earn the most, as if that somehow makes them better players, eg John Terry
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Post by GeordieDave on Jul 21, 2009 13:59:11 GMT
You make some very valid points Timmy, but in the closed circle from reality that prem footballers live in, i do wonder if it's a dick measuring contest of who can earn the most, as if that somehow makes them better players, eg John Terry He is what my mate Tom in Southampton would call a cunt's cunt. The highest honour for someone like him. Parking his Bentley in a disabled bay and diving into Pizza Express. Twat. Was he involved in that incident at a Heathrow hotel after 9/11?
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Jul 21, 2009 16:14:26 GMT
Accumulating lots and lots of money whether or not you can spend it is not to be underestimated, human greed can account for that. ] He is what my mate Tom in Southampton would call a cunt's cunt. I once heard an irate spurs fan watching the north london derby in the pub say "Shut your cunt, you cunt"* to a gooner he was arguing with. A fantastic bit of swearing. *actually it was "shat ya cant, ya cant" being in north london and all.
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