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Post by cantspellwontspell on Mar 29, 2009 22:11:42 GMT
Imagine the Brit with 5,000 extra in it due to terracing. Awesome! If the 2 ends were terracing you could add 10,000 to the capacity no trouble at all
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Post by tijuanabrass on Mar 29, 2009 23:08:35 GMT
Given that "the powers that be" used recommendations of the Taylor report to further their own financial ends, I can't see much chance of anyone whacking in a full stand of terracing.
I also find it unlikely that individual protests will make the necessary changes. Unfortunately a reversion to terracing would probably only be approved when Premiership gates drop sufficiently to force the top-tier clubs to offer cheaper spectating alternatives.
What may be achievable is if a club that needs to extend its capacity provides a small section for standing only - maybe the removable seating could be used. If this proves succesful and gets the support of the media, maybe it would influence a wide scale trend.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 30, 2009 0:29:47 GMT
Dortmund terrace. Before the gates opened.
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Post by hamburgpotter on Mar 30, 2009 8:07:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2009 9:38:59 GMT
I've never ever bee in a terraced ground Too young Another thing the youth of today have missed out on because of H&S and PC brigade to be fair it's possibly a bit harsh to call banning standing terraces largely due to the Hillsborough disaster as part of H&S gone mad!! (It also happened years before H&S and PC were really in existence)
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Post by Sparkiee on Mar 30, 2009 10:32:30 GMT
Going to away games is like being at terraced grounds nowadays. No-one sits anyway!
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 30, 2009 10:59:01 GMT
In our case, if the rules change, the best way would be to fill in the corners with terracing. That would let many of those who wanted to stand, stand. Turning The Boothen or any other part of the groud into terracing is a non starter at the moment but might be feasible if we were relegated and got crowds of 12,000/15,000 again. My own Boothen ST grouping consists of 1 old fart, 1 adult and 4 under 11's. No way would I want to change to terracing [for obvious reasons including you can't carry wooden crates into the ground for kids nowadays. The old fans will know what I mean. ] and no way could the club accomodate us together in any other part of the ground at the moment. I tried to get a block booking of 6 seats together in the Family Stand but couldn't. OS.
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Post by assessornum1 on Mar 30, 2009 11:23:29 GMT
Rugby doesnt have as many idiots on the terraces as football.
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Post by elystokie on Mar 30, 2009 11:54:20 GMT
Think you'll find people wh want to stand are in a minority. Going by this thread (and without some sort of poll to find out for certain it's all we have at the moment) I'd say you were pretty wide of the mark with that assumption. If that were the case why are the FSF campaigning to bring standing back? If the economy gets any worse (and it probably will) I 'think you'll find' there'll be more calls for cheaper entry to stadiums, and standing would be a good way of facilitating this. Money is what usually drives things and this is no different, once gates start to really suffer the authorities will change their tune imho.
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Post by surreystokie on Mar 30, 2009 13:49:46 GMT
elystokie, re your comment on why FSF would want standing brought back, if the majority wish to sit, I could use many comparisons but two will suffice.
If few people now smoke, why bother with a fag outlet at the Brit? And as most people eat meat, why bother to satisfy vegitarians?
The answer is that, in a caring and democratic society, you try to cater for all. As I said above, we (FSF) don't want large areas for standing, just selected parts of the stadium. And we don't want forced standing but freedom of choice for ALL supporters.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2009 14:02:21 GMT
elystokie, re your comment on why FSF would want standing brought back, if the majority wish to sit, I could use many comparisons but two will suffice. If few people now smoke, why bother with a fag outlet at the Brit? And as most people eat meat, why bother to satisfy vegitarians? The answer is that, in a caring and democratic society, you try to cater for all. As I said above, we (FSF) don't want large areas for standing, just selected parts of the stadium. And we don't want forced standing but freedom of choice for ALL supporters. Maybe we should also change the name from the "Britannia" to the "Free World" stadium ;D
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 30, 2009 14:03:00 GMT
ely - what a simple view of the world you have. I'm sure a majority of Stokies probably want to have their tickets for seated areas. But I bet there are several thousand who wish to stand and it is perfectly reasonable that the stadia in the Premier League should be designed for them to do so. If it means the capacity of the stadium is increased and the atmosphere is improved then so much the better. But it would be a sad day if a majority has to want to stand for the authorities to enable it to happen.
As Old Stokie says it will be easier for a variety of reasons to build our corners to allow standing either in the whole corner or at the front in a lower tier depending upon the design of the corner. To change the current Boothen (or any stand) to standing would cause problems as those with season tickets who wished to remain seated would have to be moved and finding seats in other stands with friends/family etc would be very difficult.
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Post by Del Boy on Mar 30, 2009 14:16:13 GMT
I joinded a group called 'Stand up Sit down' ages ago and had forgot about it TBH, but this has just jogged my memory and the site have sent me an e-mail saying it has moved, this is the new site explains everything there is to know about standing terrecing. www.susd.vitalfootball.co.uk/
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Post by elystokie on Mar 30, 2009 15:18:02 GMT
LP and SS - I was merely going by the responses to the original post, which indicate, to 'simple' old me that a majority would be in favour of some standing areas, I can't see anything on my post that indicates it should be a pre-requisite for a majority to actually want to stand?
Nor can I see where I've indicated that existing season ticket holders should be removed from their seats in order for it to happen?
If the corners of the Brit could be utilised for standing (subject to a change in law of course) I agree it would be an ideal solution.
I do concede however that the FSF comment could have been worded better.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 30, 2009 18:07:54 GMT
ely, it was the FSF comment which suggested to me (obviously an error on my part) that you questioned why the FSF was campaigning for standing.
My comment on the best way to implement standing at the Brit was not in response to your post just a general comment. Personally, when the South Stand was opened up to home supporters I would have made it clear that their season ticket could never be guaranteed to more than one season at a time in case the club ever wished to change the stadium configuration. You might guess from this that I'd have liked the south stand to be an all standing stand if the rules ever changed. That would be my preferred solution in the event of a rule change as an all standing South Stand would be awesome! ;D
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Post by rhodesy on Mar 30, 2009 18:26:56 GMT
I would love to be in terracing.
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 30, 2009 19:21:17 GMT
I'm not surprised. I love your avatar. It reminds me of your dada. He's cute, too. OS.
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Post by truckerged on Mar 30, 2009 19:58:10 GMT
oh this old chestnut again we will never be able to create the boothen how it used to be so we have to make the most of the new boothen. they cant change the boothen to standing it can barely cope with the capacity it has now[concourse,toilets,bars ets]besides injury laywers would have a field day, i wonder how many people broke bones,twisted ankles or just generally hurt themselves during some of the best mentalds football has ever seen when we at the ol vic!. fek me the lawyers would have to set up their own office bleedin parasites that they are!!
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 30, 2009 21:02:07 GMT
I'm afraid that at the moment it is illegal, so neither clubs nor the football authorities could introduce a safe standing ( which is the language we use now, not 'terracing') area in the top 2 Divisions without a change in the law.
It's not however primary legislation. It's done by regulations which are laid before Parliament each year by the Home secretary. So it's not that difficult to change, if there is the political will, which there isn't at the moment.
As has been said, it is common in Germany, which has a very good safety record in its grounds. It is not allowed by FIFA or UEFA for International and European games, which is why many of the top German grounds have convertable areas which are standing for league games but seated for European/International games.
Some of these systems have a rail on every row ( we used to call them crush barriers - another piece of language we don't use for obvious reasons) and a foldable seat built into the frame. There is a legal grey area about whether such a system would break the law in this country - but we need to find a club willing to install it to test the law.
At the Liberal democrats Conference last autumn, they voted in favour of allowing safe standing in England - the first major political party to do so, so we are making progress.
The FSF will be re-launching our campaign on this. Trebor has posted a link, so please join us and help with the campaign. I believe this is a battle which should and can be won.
There is a legitimate customer care concern about standing in seated areas as it affects those who can't, or don't want to stand But I don't believe there is a serious safety concern about that. The common sense solution is to provide choice - so that those who want to stand can, and those who have to or want to sit can, without having their view obstructed by those standing.
Lord Taylor predicted that fans would get used to sitting and that in a short time the 'problem' of fans standing in seated areas would go away. He was clearly wrong about that - and the evidence is that the amount of standing is, if anything, increasing.
At some clubs there have an informal understanding that those who want to stand should go in a particular area where nothing will be done about it. The problem is that clubs can come under pressure and threats from their local licensing authority and local Football Licensing Authority ( yes - there's even a quango involved here !) inspectors to take action against standing in seated areas.
Trebor has provided the link to our campaign (Thanks, Rob) - if you are really interested we have an excellent 60 page report on this which I think you can read and down load from our site.
Join us and help us win this one - it can be done.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 30, 2009 22:02:07 GMT
At the Liberal democrats Conference last autumn, they voted in favour of allowing safe standing in England - the first major political party to do so ... Well that might get me off me arse at the next election then.
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