Fuller for 1st 45 mins Campaign!

[spitthedog]

Surely it would be better to play our leading goalscorer for the first 45 minutes, try to get ahead in a game and then defend it, rather than go behind and bring him on when we are 2-0 behind and hope he makes a miracle.

[Irish Stokie]

I assume that TP didnt plan to go 2-0 down but if Ricci isnt fit then he cant start games but i would expect him to be fit and starting against Boro

[spitthedog]

But that doesn't answer the question: Why not start with him and replace him when hopefully we are leading? He is our most dangerous player, and surely it would be better to benefit earlier rather than later?????

[icelandpotter]

completely agree spit the dog - the guy is our best player - get him on!!!!!!!!!!!

[Paul Spencer]

Mar 14, 2009 21:47:24 GMT spitthedog said:

But that doesn't answer the question: Why not start with him and replace him when hopefully we are leading? He is our most dangerous player, and surely it would be better to benefit earlier rather than later?????

Pulis' argument is that Fuller is more effective coming on against defenders with tired legs, so if you're only going to play him for one half then it makes more sense to play him in the second.

I can see a logic to this, but it only if you're not a couple of goals down by half time, which invariably we are, so I guess his view doesn't really hold any water.

[FullerMagic]

We need our best players on the pitch when we're trying to get the crucial first goal. If this ridiculous 'supersub' tactic is such a good tactic, why do no other clubs in world football employ it?


This dream scenario of them coming on fresh with the game still in the balance and able to immediately turn it our way, like turning on a tap, as the game gets stretched is rarely going to happen and is the exception rather than the rule, particularly when you're traveling to places like Goodison sodding Park.

[Olgrligm]

I think the logic behind it works something like this:

Pulis knows that Fuller is a very, very good player. However, he's brought in Beattie who is scoring lots of goals. Sidibe has just been rushed back from injury so he can do a job in the team as well. Pulis doesn't seem convinced that Beattie can do the same job Mama does (because obviously Beattie would have contributed only a fraction of what a clearly unfit Sidibe did in that role, despite being a target man who played virtually in midfield for Sheffield United, eh Tone?). Pulis also knows from past experience that Fuller is very good at running at players and outpacing them when they're knackered (Wolves away, Newcastle away), so for him, the trick is obvious. Big money goalscorer and Sidibe in the first half, big money goalscorer and Fuller in the second. I have this horrible feeling that he thinks the selection headache has solved itself in this way. Our best strike partnership is Beattie and Fuller, no question.

[Paul Spencer]

Mar 14, 2009 22:06:31 GMT Olgrligm said:

I think the logic behind it works something like this:

Pulis knows that Fuller is a very, very good player. However, he's brought in Beattie who is scoring lots of goals. Sidibe has just been rushed back from injury so he can do a job in the team as well. Pulis doesn't seem convinced that Beattie can do the same job Mama does (because obviously Beattie would have contributed only a fraction of what a clearly unfit Sidibe did in that role, despite being a target man who played virtually in midfield for Sheffield United, eh Tone?). Pulis also knows from past experience that Fuller is very good at running at players and outpacing them when they're knackered (Wolves away, Newcastle away), so for him, the trick is obvious. Big money goalscorer and Sidibe in the first half, big money goalscorer and Fuller in the second. I have this horrible feeling that he thinks the selection headache has solved itself in this way. Our best strike partnership is Beattie and Fuller, no question.

'Our best strike partnership is Beattie and Fuller, no question.'

Absolutely, there's no headache to be had about it.

Beattie and Fuller together, have the potential to rip the Boro defence to pieces from the off next week.

I'll be gobsmacked if Pulis doesn't start them both.

[One-Two]

Fuller does alot better against tired defences. I think second half is better than 1st half for him tbh, obviously the full 90 would be best though

[spitthedog]

But wouldn't the defenders legs be far more tired playing against Fuller for the first 45, compared to Sidibe who is fairly static????????
Name me another team who regularly start without their top scorer

Anyway let's face it... the argument that Fuller is not fit is simply bullshit...TP is just trying to cover his arse.

[One-Two]

Not the top scorer, but Everton start without Saha, who is a fantastic striker

[One-Two]

And Amr Zaki at Wigwam

[Ron Jeremy]

Good call, but alot of managers do this, as u can see ^^

I suppose its beacuse they dont expect to go down, but if they didnt, why would they need the 'super sub' their? =/

[PottersPride]

fuller has much more of a impact from the bench for the simple reason if he starts and we go 2 nil down his head goes down but if he comes on and we are 2 down he feels like he can do somerthing

[Paul Spencer]

Mar 15, 2009 0:11:44 GMT PottersPride said:

fuller has much more of a impact from the bench for the simple reason if he starts and we go 2 nil down his head goes down but if he comes on and we are 2 down he feels like he can do somerthing

How about the scenario where he starts and we go 2-0 up?

[FullerMagic]

Mar 15, 2009 0:28:57 GMT Paul Spencer said:

Mar 15, 2009 0:11:44 GMT PottersPride said:

fuller has much more of a impact from the bench for the simple reason if he starts and we go 2 nil down his head goes down but if he comes on and we are 2 down he feels like he can do somerthing

How about the scenario where he starts and we go 2-0 up?

Yeah, there is a line of thinking that suggests you need to take the lead to win games.

And the first goal normally decides things as regards having the chance of a win.

[evans1863]

No argument? Well I think there is a very strong case for Mama and Fuller being our best partnership. They read each other like a book, and you seem to get about 30% more out of Fuller and at least 50% more out Sidibe when they are on the pitch together.

Fuller and Beattie have not had long to settle down, so its too early to judge. However I am not saying that I dont think these two will work, and especially not saying for one moment that Beattie should be dropped but we need to look at the facts here.

[armitagestokie]

Remember it was 2 spills by Thommo that cost us the game,nowt to do with forwards.TP said Fuller was still feeling his shoulder after a knock, so a 2nd half player against tired legs is still best solution. I must say IMHO I think Camara needs to play a more active role and could be the answer.

[walrus]

I still prefer Fuller as an impact sub. Mama's not looked at the races recently though, I don't think he works all that well with Beattie, who is obviously now number one striker. I'd quite like to see a Beattie/Camara partnership, with Ricci and Mama being used from the bench, just to see how that works, as Camara could provide the nippy foil to Beattie that may be effective.

[spitthedog]

this impact sub argument does not make any sense at all to me.

We need impact from the start of the game!.......... why wait until we are chasing a game...Fuller is good but we are expecting too much if we are looking for him to pull 3 goals back to win a game. i know we don't plan to go 2-0 down but playing your weaker players from the start is a great way of inviting that kind of situation.
i'm sure the opposition defenders are delighted when they see Fuller is not starting.
as for fitness Fuller looks fitter than Sidibe.

as previous posters suggest, in the premiership the first goal is often decisive

[Jamo on the wing]

No disrespect to anyone but I think the impact sub thing is complete and total bollocks as we haven't the squad to do it.
Have a look at Premier League stats, the first goal is absolutely crucial, you don't get anywhere near as many "coming from a goal down" wins in this league as you do others.
It is absolutely imperative we get our noses in front or at worst get back level before halftime.
The problem with impact subs is that you still have to be in the game for them to make a difference and often the games over at halftime.

[kingdeano]

jamo spot on, its bollocks about this impact player, whats the point when we gift teams 2 or 3 goal leads?? get our best 11 out their and go for it, this team can play a bit if allowed, but that means etherington and lawrence on the flanks, and fuller and beattie up front, if we are to stay up we have got stop worrying about other teams and start letting teams worry about us

[Jamo on the wing]

Mar 15, 2009 11:22:20 GMT @kingdeano said:

jamo spot on, its bollocks about this impact player, whats the point when we gift teams 2 or 3 goal leads?? get our best 11 out their and go for it, this team can play a bit if allowed, but that means etherington and lawrence on the flanks, and fuller and beattie up front, if we are to stay up we have got stop worrying about other teams and start letting teams worry about us

I think it's all about confidence deano and unfortuantely it seems TP doesn't have the same confidence in our best XI as many of us have.
I honestly believe that our best players are now good enough to have a real go at teams in this divison without the need for so many "spoiling" players from the start.

[kingdeano]

exactly, its taken over half the season to get a team out that resembles a premiership outfit, and at last our midfield looks quality, defence is settled, and we are always capable of scoring, this team just needs the belief to go and do it, take off the shackles and let them go.

[Vadiation_Ribe]

Fuller will start once his shoulder is fine. Pulis said so himself.

[Jamo on the wing]

Mar 15, 2009 11:52:09 GMT Vadiation_Ribe said:

Fuller will start once his shoulder is fine. Pulis said so himself.

The point is that they're apparently worried about him getting a knock on it so why play him at all? Is he less likely to get a knock in the second half than the first?
If he's fit enough for the second half he should play from the start, not only that but from a team perspective if he got a knock after coming on in the second period and we'd used our subs we'd have to play with ten men for the remainder of the match.
Doesn't make much sencse when you look at it like that does it?

[nott1]

Premier League players don't get knackered after 45 minutes anf even if they do their managers bring on replacements, so let's have our strongest team on from the start and get three goals up!