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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 14, 2009 17:03:30 GMT
Before all the doom and gloom/anti TP brigade pile on, I'm determined to get at least 1 postive post in.
Well done TP and the lads for a decent effort against a good top 6 side.
Some peoples expectations of games like todays are totally unrealistic and I think they did OK.
OK they're all going to pile on and tell us how shit his tactics were in the first half, rather than facing the fact that Everton are better than us. Sometimes you just have to accept the inescapable facts.
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Post by Adster on Mar 14, 2009 17:05:54 GMT
well said, ;D
just wait for this thread to move down the board as all the anti TP brigade get on ;D
im proud of the lads today, as i always am.
the next 4 games are MASSIVE for us ;D
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 14, 2009 17:06:20 GMT
Everton are good so why give them an even bigger advantage by not playing Your best team? Good effort by the lads but weak again by Pulis away from home.
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Post by kevkj on Mar 14, 2009 17:07:36 GMT
Played very well second half they were rocking.
Poor day at the office for Sorenson cost us.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 14, 2009 17:08:02 GMT
Shocking team selection but excellent performance for the first half hour of the 2nd half.
I wasn't expecting anything from the game so am certainly not inconsolable.
All you ask is that they give it a go and they certainly did that 2nd half.
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Post by stokemark on Mar 14, 2009 17:09:33 GMT
I dont think Beattie / Mama works
Diao is not good enough
BUT
Who on here can honsetly say they thought Sorro should not have played and it was his fuck ups that cost us.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2009 17:09:45 GMT
Before all the doom and gloom/anti TP brigade pile on, I'm determined to get at least 1 postive post in. Well done TP and the lads for a decent effort against a good top 6 side. Some peoples expectations of games like todays are totally unrealistic and I think they did OK. OK they're all going to pile on and tell us how shit his tactics were in the first half, rather than facing the fact that Everton are better than us. Sometimes you just have to accept the inescapable facts. Spot on. If we picked up anything today it would be a bonus. The coming games are where we need to pick up points. |
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Post by th05 on Mar 14, 2009 17:13:40 GMT
Second half much better. I dont get what is going on in the first half!
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 14, 2009 17:14:39 GMT
I dont think Beattie / Mama works Diao is not good enough BUT Who on here can honsetly say they thought Sorro should not have played and it was his fuck ups that cost us. True. He had one of those days. The ball was like a bar of soap whenever it got near him. I just hope we've seen the end of the Mama/Beattie partnership and we see Delap or Faye come in for Diao andLawrence and Etherington start home AND away. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 14, 2009 17:15:47 GMT
Expecting a result at Everton is unrealistic.
But is expecting a slight change in tactics (nowt major) and picking Your best team unrealistic? Maybe with TP it is because he's had however many games to change it. That is the only reason I'm peeved. I never expected us to win but obvious things needed doing and they never did until we were 2-0 down. I find that hard to accept if I'm being honest.
Great effort by the lads and the manager to try and pull it back but it just winds me up that the same thing has happened yet again and we've done nothing different to try and stop it. I just don't get it.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 14, 2009 17:20:11 GMT
Teams EXPEXT to beat us at their own stadiums and put us under pressure. Because of that, our midfield play too deep (natural reaction to pressure) and our defenders are not the best and make mistakes/lack concentration. That is why we are finding ourselve a couple of goals down before we can blink. Anyone who honestly believes that TP sends them out to play like that must be mad! WE LACK DEFENSIVE QUALITY = WE LET STUPID GOALS IN. It is NOT shockingly awful tactics as some would have you believe.
I can't prove my arguement, but I'm certain that a more positive tactical approach (bearing in mind the strength of opponent and the lack of defensive quality) would have earned us several very heavy defeats and we wouls STILL not have won away this season.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 14, 2009 17:20:21 GMT
When a kid touches an oven hob he normally learns not to do it again.
Sadly, TP just keeps getting his fingers burned away from home and they must be blistered to high heaven.
Having said that, the 2nd half performance was very good and we made Everton look like utter dog shit for half an hour and really grasped the initiative.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 14, 2009 17:26:17 GMT
But he doesn't get his fingers burned Fuller. In my opinion he sets out to try and get a result away from home. He differs from you in how that can be achieved. You can look at him and say 'it isn't working' but how do you know that. How do you know that if he took your advice we wouldn't get beat even more heavily every away game
You can't say that results prove him wrong because, with our current team, we're not likely to see an alternative approach.
Our defenders (SOME OF THEM) are not playing well and we let far too many silly goals in. That wouldn't change with a different tactical approach.
We really do need to assess where we are and what we are trying to do. I maintain, they are doing OK. On to Boro!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 14, 2009 17:26:59 GMT
Our midfield play deep because thats how TP sets the team out. Quote Dom Matteo "the gaffer likes to play with two holding that sit deeper"
And we shouldn't go all out attack away from home that is madness and I've never suggested it. I'd like to see us up the tempo and get amongst teams. Other than that I think we should play 4-5-1 if the plan is to hold on. Suggested this after the Castle game. Get foothold in midfield and use Lawrence and Etherington to break with. Its too late now to try anything and he should have tried new things earlier in the season to try and muster something.
Good performance second half but this game is just a microchosm of what has happened all season. And unlike I seem I find it hard to take a bumming so often without doing anything to change it!
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Post by rocket88 on Mar 14, 2009 17:37:05 GMT
Before all the doom and gloom/anti TP brigade pile on, I'm determined to get at least 1 postive post in. Well done TP and the lads for a decent effort against a good top 6 side. Some peoples expectations of games like todays are totally unrealistic and I think they did OK. OK they're all going to pile on and tell us how shit his tactics were in the first half, rather than facing the fact that Everton are better than us. Sometimes you just have to accept the inescapable facts. Bollocks!!!! WE took the game to Everton in the second half!!!! But after we'd gone 2-0 down. Yeah, Soro had a bad day, but where was the ATTACKING side that finished at Villa ?????? It's about time we started out to WIN the game in the FIRST HALF!!!!! FFS  |
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 14, 2009 17:44:12 GMT
bayern; All difference of opinion apart, we all want the same things but I honestly DO think that he intends to 'get amongst' the opposition. He does like Centre Mids but that doesn't necessarily stop you from having a go when you're in posession. His first thought is clearly to build a solid platform on which to venture forward when we can. What that requires id that our defenders and CM players pass the ball accurately to their own players and the front men retain posession better than they have been doing. Otherwise the ball comes straight back and the defence is under constant pressure (hence cock ups and goals against). I believe that is exactly what's happenning. Higgy's distribution is appalling as it our CM pairings most of the time. Wilco's passing is poor and these are where the problems lie. The tactics would be OK with better players but we might be an awful lot worse if we changed tactics with these players.
We DO have threats up front but we simply cannot keep hold of the ball for long enough. That is NOT down to TP and his tactics. If this same set of players, using exactly the same tactics, could simply find their own men and retain the ball, we would be successfull.
I maintain, lack of quality is letting us down, not tactics.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 14, 2009 17:49:38 GMT
Rocket 88:
Of course we attacked in the second half. What else can you do when you're 2-0 down?
Everton thought the game was won and eased off (took the 2 best players off).
We DID have a go and ended up letting another soft goal in.
It's very easy to talk at times like this but you hae NO IDEA what would have happenned had we attacked more OR Everton had kept up the pressure so don't talk BOLLOCKs yerself sunshine'
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 14, 2009 18:31:19 GMT
bayern; All difference of opinion apart, we all want the same things but I honestly DO think that he intends to 'get amongst' the opposition. He does like Centre Mids but that doesn't necessarily stop you from having a go when you're in posession. His first thought is clearly to build a solid platform on which to venture forward when we can. What that requires id that our defenders and CM players pass the ball accurately to their own players and the front men retain posession better than they have been doing. Otherwise the ball comes straight back and the defence is under constant pressure (hence cock ups and goals against). I believe that is exactly what's happenning. Higgy's distribution is appalling as it our CM pairings most of the time. Wilco's passing is poor and these are where the problems lie. The tactics would be OK with better players but we might be an awful lot worse if we changed tactics with these players. We DO have threats up front but we simply cannot keep hold of the ball for long enough. That is NOT down to TP and his tactics. If this same set of players, using exactly the same tactics, could simply find their own men and retain the ball, we would be successfull. I maintain, lack of quality is letting us down, not tactics. He might want that but in the away games I've seen we haven't had it. And that is the problem! I just want him to try and change but we haven't seen in it. Which is a real shame because I believe we have good enough players that can win away. Not against Everton admittedly but one away game I've been to this season was there for the taking and that Portsmouth. We showed them respect and they scored. We never got amongst them and we payed for it. |
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Post by stokie25 on Mar 14, 2009 18:56:47 GMT
Agree with all the posts about Sorro having an 'off day' but rather he did there at Goodison than at Home where we need to maintain our form. If it's any consolation to him...Van der Sar had a shitter, too  |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 14, 2009 19:04:58 GMT
Everton are a good side as evidenced by their league position but second half, we were better than them.
We approach games in fear of a reputation when there is no need. Our players can play. The fans believe in them (hence the superb support again today) but most crucially of all, our manager doesn't.
We are scared of our own shadows when we go away and only start to play when the game is lost.
Very, very, very frustrating!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 14, 2009 19:06:48 GMT
Spot on Dave!
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Post by Ron Jeremy on Mar 14, 2009 19:09:44 GMT
They are 6th, you have to remember that & we havent yet won away from home =/
I thought 2nd half & well first half we were the most offensive ive seen all season away from home
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Post by buddyfolly on Mar 14, 2009 19:25:14 GMT
have just got back,have been to every away game this season and I just fuckin despair! I heard the dave kemp interview on radio stoke " matty and rick are on the bench we like to keep a winning side" dave kemp fuck off fuck off fuck right off you little fat ex wimbledon coach! de-lap was banned for 3 games and came straight back into the side so why wasn't etho' you stupid little ex wimbledon moron? for gods sake anyone could see we were crying out for creativity and pace and you had fuller and etho' on the bench!!!!
I've said before we will not win an away game all season because we go set up to not lose instead of taking it to them,for us the relegation fight is a lottery one step forward 2 steps back like tonite we are back in the bottom 3,it will all come down to where we finish after our last away game and god help us if we lose any home games,pulis and kemp you can blame sorro all you want but today you have bottled it and proved that our away form will see us down you one dimensional wankers!!!!
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Post by whelan_6 on Mar 14, 2009 19:36:07 GMT
no buddy,sorro dropped two clangers first half when we were under no pressure,we batterd them 2nd half,we did'nt create much first half and neither did they. Sorro has to take the blame for today,he's only human and we all make mistakes,just hope he play's better in the next 4 games against temas we have around us we have to beat.
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only1clinthill
Academy Starlet
We are , we are, we are the mods !
Posts: 198
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Post by only1clinthill on Mar 14, 2009 19:47:06 GMT
Might sound stupid but i'm proud of the lads for scoring. And although we lost, we werent humiliated by, to me are a very underated top 6 team !!
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Post by roylandstoke on Mar 14, 2009 19:50:41 GMT
Good effort, 2nd half after a first half performance that isn't being totally slaughtered by everyone because we have the first half at Villa to compare it to which was even worse.
These tactics have got us 4(four)points away from home this year. Does anyone seriously think that having a go at winning would have got us less.
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