|
|
Post by BoothenenderGaz on Mar 11, 2009 20:12:31 GMT
Folks,
Just thought I would update you with regards to the meeting we had today with the council.
There were representatives from each body, police, local councillors, the lord mayor (not elected mayor!), legal department, a rep from St Modwen, traffic department ..etc
The meeting started with the various councillors explaining the types of problems we are seeing, people double parking in narrow streets so local buses can't get past. People perisitently parking outside people's driveways, people parking on double yellow lines and getting fined match after match after match. There was also a person, who seeing that he/she was going to get a ticket parked in someone's drive. The person who the drive belonged to came back and found a car from a complete stranger parked there!!
Myself (chair) and Terry Hughes (vice-chair) of the Fans Forum then stated that if there was an adequate alternative to parking then maybe there would be less people parking in the streets.
We said that fans take one look at the congestion on the South and Trent car park and down Stanley Matthews Way after a match and do want to park there. I stated that as I live in Trentham and walk to most games, knowing I was coming to the meeting I parked up on the South for the Bolton game. I moved precisely 12 feet from 9:45-10:30. This was not due to congestion on SMW but someone who had parked poorly and blocked others in
The safety officer from Stoke said that on lots of occasions this season the Trent Car park has not been full to capacity. We stated that this may be again due to the congestion after the game
We said that once inside either car park (South and Trent) there was no stewarding and as the car parks were effectively rubble and no spacing some people were blocking others off. We suggested that there is some stewarding in the car parks themselves to make sure no-one is blocking anyone off and everyone can get away. The safety officer from Stoke said that he would look in to getting extra stewards on the car parks to stop people obstructing others and blocking exits
We did drive this point over quite hard and said that if people could see a marked improvement to exit times on the official cark parks then alternatives would not be sought in local streets
The official from Stoke then said that bus and coach timetables were on the official site. I anticipated this point would come up and then I said that I had looked and I also asked 10 of my work colleagues to look for the bus/coach timetables and only three of us out of 11 could find this information in less than 4 minutes. We pointed out in that time a user on the site would have either given up or got distracted by something else on the site
I asked the official from Stoke to send me all the bus and coach details (which he did) and I will put them up on our site. The council will also publish this information too on their site.
The lights at the bottom of SMW have had a new system installed which will direct the flow of traffic based on the queue length so is adequate without the need of a police officer controlling the lights. The councillors pointed out that the problem seems not to be the queuing traffic on SMW but the congestion getting of the car parks
We mentioned park and ride systems which some councillors agreed with the principle
We also mentioned food and drink bars remaining open for upto an hour after the game seemed to stop. The rep from the club said that this was due to sheer lack of interest in it from the fans, it wasn't feasible
The rep from St Modwen said that work was planned to start on the underpass in March/May 2010 (plans are in the public domain if you wish to see)
Due to safety restrictions no-one can turn left at the top end of the south car park (the police told us that) and that SMW could not be one-way without the express permission of all businesses along SMW (which aint going to happen)
What happens now?
Hopefully Stoke will put extra stewarding on the car parks to ensure people park correctly and stop people blocking others off. This will then improve exit times from the car parks
More exposure on the bus/coach timetables and prices. This is still the quickest route off the ground with the exception of walking!
Councillors also had various action points about poorly marked residents parking bays and parking enforcement
The Fans Forum is currently working on a share-a-lift scheme whereby people can see who has free spaces in their car living close to them or en-route
We will all meet again in the closed season to discuss progress and continue on with discussions
We will also speak to the club at the next Fans Forum meeting next week to get an update on the stewarding on the car parks
|
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 11, 2009 20:18:02 GMT
The car share is a good idea! But the Council and Police seem unwilling to do anything, so bar the stewards absolutely bugger all will be done! Not having a dig at the forum but the Council and Police-shambles!
|
|
|
|
Post by mark71 on Mar 11, 2009 20:29:07 GMT
Cheers gaz,
After the game we go up to the Cricket club and have a couple of beers to let the traffic go down, I know this is not feasible for most people but If the police would allow the power league and the Harvester to open after the game it would help to stagger peoples leaving times. would it be passable to have a few buses going into Stoke a little bit later so people could stop around the Brit a bit longer.
|
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Mar 11, 2009 20:58:45 GMT
Due to safety restrictions no-one can turn left at the top end of the south car park (the police told us that) and that SMW could not be one-way without the express permission of all businesses along SMW (which aint going to happen)
surely for one hour after the game would not hurt
|
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 11, 2009 21:16:49 GMT
"Due to safety restrictions no-one can turn left at the top end of the south car park"
Gaz - sorry to be a pain but could you ask the council and the Police exactly how stopping people turning left (out of the northern exit) improves safety? It doesn't make sense to me. As it happens I stop in Delilah's after the game for an hour end then I ALWAYS turn left out of the South carpark. OK, it is quiet by then but I fail to see how turning left 45 minutes earlier would be less safe.
Secondly, could you ask the Police whether other Police Forces have to get permission of ALL businesses before changing the traffic flow on a road. Speaking from memory I have seen it happen at Man City, Man United, Liverpool and Blackburn games this season. I can't believe that the businesses in those towns and cities are somehow more accomodating than those in Stoke. I SUSPECT that the Police in those places have put it to the locals that temporary traffic measures for an hour after a match will get rid of congestion much quicker than will be the case if the normal traffic rules are maintained and that this will BENEFIT the locals.
Keep up the good work - it is appreciated.
|
|
|
|
Post by swampySCFC on Mar 11, 2009 22:01:37 GMT
"There was also a person, who seeing that he/she was going to get a ticket parked in someone's drive. The person who the drive belonged to came back and found a car from a complete stranger parked there!!"
;D
|
|
|
|
Post by march4 on Mar 11, 2009 22:09:45 GMT
Well done for getting all of those points across.
However, not making SMW one way because of the businesses is an obvious retelling of the truth. The police can (and do at other clubs) close roads to ease congestion after games.
I fear the changes the councillors accept will make little difference - something we should be used to in our City. Someone said to me today that Stoke-on-Trent should be renamed Broke and Bent.
Lets hope that your good work eventually draws significant benefits. You deserve a medal when it does!
|
|
|
|
Post by twisty on Mar 11, 2009 22:19:50 GMT
"The rep from St Modwen said that work was planned to start on the underpass in March/May 2010 (plans are in the public domain if you wish to see)"
2010??
i thought it was supposed to be started at the end of this season??
i'll put money on NOW if we get relegated this season it wont happen.
|
|
|
|
Post by BoothenenderGaz on Mar 11, 2009 22:45:00 GMT
"Due to safety restrictions no-one can turn left at the top end of the south car park" Gaz - sorry to be a pain but could you ask the council and the Police exactly how stopping people turning left (out of the northern exit) improves safety? It doesn't make sense to me. As it happens I stop in Delilah's after the game for an hour end then I ALWAYS turn left out of the South carpark. OK, it is quiet by then but I fail to see how turning left 45 minutes earlier would be less safe. Secondly, could you ask the Police whether other Police Forces have to get permission of ALL businesses before changing the traffic flow on a road. Speaking from memory I have seen it happen at Man City, Man United, Liverpool and Blackburn games this season. I can't believe that the businesses in those towns and cities are somehow more accomodating than those in Stoke. I SUSPECT that the Police in those places have put it to the locals that temporary traffic measures for an hour after a match will get rid of congestion much quicker than will be the case if the normal traffic rules are maintained and that this will BENEFIT the locals. Keep up the good work - it is appreciated. The representative from Staffordshire police said that with the volume of people walking around then it would not be viable safety wise. They also said that they wanted to clear the area of away fans as well and didnt want to hold this up (presumably to remove the potential for trouble??) I asked the question about SMW one-way about three different times (in different ways) and each time the response about buy in from local businesses was the given answer. Even the rep from St Modwen said the same thing so they must also have looked at this one. They said that once on SMW the traffic is moving. The hold-up appears to be getting off the car parks. Hopefully our suggestion of stewarding to ensure people park in the correct place will have the desired results Interestingly enough, the rep from St Modwen says that Aldi at the bottom of SMW are worried about fans parking there and filling up their car-park on matchdays. He said that St Modwen are looking at ways of preventing this from happening!? |
|
|
|
Post by BoothenenderGaz on Mar 11, 2009 22:48:39 GMT
Cheers gaz, After the game we go up to the Cricket club and have a couple of beers to let the traffic go down, I know this is not feasible for most people but If the police would allow the power league and the Harvester to open after the game it would help to stagger peoples leaving times. would it be passable to have a few buses going into Stoke a little bit later so people could stop around the Brit a bit longer. I'll ask the question Mark at the next meeting although it will be a while away |
|
|
|
Post by surreystokie on Mar 11, 2009 23:43:23 GMT
I'm annoyed that, in the midst of a question to FF, last night, my computer went down, but amazed that it seems that no-one else mentioned it, especially as my simple idea is relatively easy to put into place.
If in the South car park, you cannot get out on to SMW because vehicles in the Trent car park are allowed to turn left! It is hopeless and I complained to TS some months ago, advising that all that was needed was a steward, to ensure a right turn only. He tried it and it worked well.
But it lasted only twice, before the stewards were taken off and of course it's back to chaos once more.
Please can you ask that this simple request is put into operation before car park season tickets are purchased? Many thanks to you all and good luck with your efforts.
Incidentally, it's the car parking that has cost us more England under 21 fixtures.
|
|
|
|
Post by surreystokie on Mar 11, 2009 23:53:05 GMT
Gaz, forgot to say that my query may be suited to SCfC, rather than the council. But no less important for that.
Am I the only person on here who does not know if the car parks, especially the latest one, the Trent, belong to SCFC? Or do we pay rent and, if so, for how long? Until it's taken by another industry?
What other parking plans are being discussed, for next season, as PC promised, in the close season, that this years were "only temporary".
Very disappointed to hear that the pedstrian tunnel has been delayed, for very obvious reasons. Personally, I hope and believe that we will stay up.
|
|
|
|
Post by tazi on Mar 11, 2009 23:54:34 GMT
Couldn't you have offered e'm a 1er each?.
|
|
|
|
Post by Not_Nick_H on Mar 12, 2009 0:29:19 GMT
If in the South car park, you cannot get out on to SMW because vehicles in the Trent car park are allowed to turn left! It is hopeless and I complained to TS some months ago, advising that all that was needed was a steward, to ensure a right turn only. He tried it and it worked well. Bang on the money SS! What is the point the Police putting their feet down and saying "Thou shalt not turn left from the South CP because it causes problems" if traffic already allowed to go uphill is causing more problems to start with! It's an excuse from the council and police. The answer is staring everyone in the face - make it a one way system for an hour either side of the game! I cannot for one minute see that businesses can't see the benefit of this compared to the chaos that exists already! Well done to the FF for doing their best anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 12, 2009 7:45:59 GMT
Well said Nick (and Monica).
As regards the traders'opposition to a one way system on Sir Stanley Matthews Way after the game - perhaps it is now time for the Fans Forum to see if a meeting could be arranged between the club, the Fans Forum, the Police AND the traders so that the Fans Forum and the club can put their feelings across to the traders directly. Maybe the Chamber of Commerce and/or the Chamber of Trade could be approached about this?
My experience at other grounds this season is that temporary one way systems do work. I parked about half a mile away from Ewood Park (In a school or college carpark) and found a one way system (headed towards the motorway) in implementation at the end of the game. A policeman on point duty waved me out of the carpark and I was on the motorway within minutes. Had the one way system not been in operation life would have been much harder.
|
|
|
|
Post by stevetheboater on Mar 12, 2009 8:46:11 GMT
I am curious about why they all say buy-in is needed as would have thought the police had powers to do whatever they think is appropriate on a public highway. I can think of loads of example of roads being closed or made one way during and after large events, not just football matches.
Is it worth calling their bluff by someone writing directly to the businesses to ask them whether they agree with the one way road idea? I bet that in reality no-one has asked. My guess is St Modwen don't like the idea because they think it will make their business park less attractive to tenants.
|
|
|
|
Post by Funky on Mar 12, 2009 9:01:44 GMT
"The rep from St Modwen said that work was planned to start on the underpass in March/May 2010 (plans are in the public domain if you wish to see)" So they will be digging the tunnel during the season? wont this cause more problems as i'm guessing no one will be able to walk up the bank they are digging under? Maybe it should be started out of season, just a thought. |
|
|
|
Post by waddosnavy on Mar 12, 2009 9:14:24 GMT
Sadly for a City allocated several million pounds towards pedal power, the word BICYCLE appears not to have been mentioned.
I have found it to be a most efficient means of getting to/from home matches since I returned to the area permanently 3 years ago. To the point that I have arrived back in Audley before the Bignall End Cricket Club bus, and know of Audley fans still in their cars on the car park when I'm at home.
The bike storage area at the Brit is poor (see Southampton for a fine example). However, Hem Heath cricket club are most welcoming and I safely store my bike there.
|
|
|
|
Post by rabbigan on Mar 12, 2009 10:04:00 GMT
Gaz,
I appreciate your efforts but the real problem solver to my mind is making SMW one way for an hour after games.
I cannot believe the businesses would object since its end result would be to speed tradffic away from the ground and surrounding area more quickly.
Traffic turning left out of the Trent car park slows down vehicles exiting the South car park tremendously.
It has obviously been a lot worse this year because of bigger crowds and stewarding inside the car park would certainly help.
I have sat in the line of traffic to get out of the gate nearest the stadium for an hour and never turned a wheel.
In previous years I have been home in Belper in that time.
A couple of stewards or police on the exits actually stopping traffic that turns left out of the Trent car park would help South Car Park users.
It is absolute rubbish to say the police cannot make these temprary traffic flows.
Legally nthey are permitted to do virtually anything on the grounds of safety.
Finally I would appeal to the many hot heads threatening others on the car parks who are forced in to situations because of the inadeuate exit systems on the car parks.
I have seen some very nasty incidents developing.
The club could I believe do more in this and should themselves arrange a meeting with other site users and your organisation.
Again many thanks for your efforts
|
|
|
|
Post by surreystokie on Mar 12, 2009 10:14:34 GMT
Funky, I hope you haven't fallen for it.  Surely it says a tunnel start in March- May, to keep us quiet, for the moment. When the time comes, they will say that of course starting the tunnel in March, while matches are in progress, will be too complex and so it will have to be put back two months - or more. Meanwhile, they keep their fingers crossed that we are relegated and all can be forgotten. Maybe I'm wrong, but my cynicism is hardened by previous experience of political tactics, especially concerning the Brit. Good point NNH, as my comment was primarily concerned with the difficulty of not being able to get out, due to the endless northern bound traffic from the Trent car park. Such a pity if this was not mentioned at the meeting, although those in attendace may not have experienced those car parks. We must keep at it. |
|
|
|
Post by BoothenenderGaz on Mar 12, 2009 11:45:11 GMT
Surrey - I will definitely mention this at the FF meeting next Wednesday with the club, the criss-crossing of traffic definitely does impede the flow
It would be helpful if someone other than the usual faces at the Forum comes along and puts their point across to emphasise the problem it is causing and timings of how long it is taking
If anyone is willing to come along and do this the meeting is at 3:30pm at the stadium - let me know and I will furnish those who wish to attend with further details
I will let you know the response
|
|
|
|
Post by Stafford-Stokie on Mar 12, 2009 11:48:03 GMT
They have police on the Trent car park stopping people heading up hill. The main problem is people turning up to pick people up from the ground. They turn round on SMW and head up hill. Also people coming from the factory opposite the south car park. I have started parking in Trentham and walking up. To may dickheads on the car parks that cant wait and wont let anyone out in front of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 12, 2009 11:50:04 GMT
Gaz a good way to get more fans going to meetings would be to hold them (or at least some of them) on matchdays. Much easier for exiles and probably easier for some local fans as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by BoothenenderGaz on Mar 12, 2009 12:01:07 GMT
Funnily enough I have been speaking to the club about that this week.
Hopefully this will be agreed at the next meeting on Wednesday
|
|
|
|
Post by thestatusquo on Mar 12, 2009 13:32:48 GMT
I'm surprised that it hasn't been mentioned here but on the occasions that we've been to Wembley (and I can't imagine that it's changed since the new build) the police operated a "tidal" policy where major routes (not just a backwater road) has traffic going one way on both sides of the road to get fans away. They also did it at the Millenium in Cardiff
SQ
|
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on Mar 13, 2009 16:15:31 GMT
Surely it's time for the council to sort out a park and ride scheme on matchdays so that only buses and pedestrians get near to the ground.
|
|
|
|
Post by jarhead on Mar 13, 2009 18:18:48 GMT
Why not at the old Viccy Ground site on a temporary deal until the site does finally get sold for devolpment which has stood for what 12 YEARS now with nowt been done to it as a Mass Matchday Parking Area with shuttle buses/coaches mini buses etc etc running from that site every 15/30 mins to the Brit and charge say a £1 for allday parking there which would just help pay back for levelling the site for parking and general maintanence? This would help Stoke towns Economy and could see the re-opening up of the Old Vic Pub opposite the site and turn into that Stoke pub again for fans to meet knowing they have a short coach trip to the ground?
|
|
|
|
Post by jarhead on Mar 13, 2009 18:28:51 GMT
Surely St Modwen could help the council in this idea and share the parking fee wether its a quid or 5 quid instead of the land now giving back to both companys nothing so it could be a good deal for everyone and the area as a whole?
|
|
|
|
Post by wembley4372 on Mar 13, 2009 18:56:30 GMT
Has anyone actually asked the traders?
Does anyone ever come up SMW from Trentham in that hour?
|
|
|
|
Post by Bobthehandsome on Mar 13, 2009 20:11:56 GMT
At the Emirates they substantially reduce food and beer prices at the end of the game to encourage fans to wait until the tube traffic has subsided.
|
|
