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Post by daverichards on Jan 4, 2009 11:14:49 GMT
I just don't get it, we have to have a larger squad of players, which means we have to buy players, who may not play week in week out, they don't just drop out of the sky do they ?
We were promoted with a desperatly thin squad, would you rather pulis had bolstered it with a load of shit crap free transfers ?
And not a single one of you can say that money has been wasted, until that player leaves the club for less than he cost.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 11:19:09 GMT
I think you may have to agree that so far Kitson has yet to repay any of his 5.5 million and that so far has to be at least considered as a complete waste? Ok he has time to prove us all wrong but so far sitting in the bottom 3 of the prem it should be considered a waste.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jan 4, 2009 11:19:49 GMT
You are in theory, correct Dave; but as I said to a mate yesterday I doubt we could achieve 50% of the £15M paid for Kitson, Seyi, Sonko, Tonge and Soares if we were to try and sell them in the window.
That is a scary thought after only 6 months at the club.
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Post by shiny nosehair on Jan 4, 2009 11:20:46 GMT
If Kitson, Seyi, Soares, Tonge leave this club for more money than we paid ID then feel free to anally rape me at your earliest convenient opportunity
I think even the most rosily tinted fool would happily concede this will be the case
unless of course .........
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Post by Beardy200 on Jan 4, 2009 11:21:15 GMT
Totally agree Dave .... although Kitson will have to go some for a bit now  I'm surprised we haven't seen more of Tonge but Soares is still young and has shown some very bright glimpses of what we may have to come. Sonko is that type of player i'm afraid and always has been. He'll have some blinders but he'll have some mares ... there's never much middle ground. Yes they were panic buys but if his original targets don't come off what would you prefer .... what we had here already? |
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Post by RAF on Jan 4, 2009 11:22:17 GMT
If I buy a scewdriver for 5 quid, but it won't remove any screws in my house , but I continually try and use it because it's the only one I have, then does it only constitute a waste of money if I can't sell it to someone else for what I paid for it?
H
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coggy
Youth Player
Posts: 340
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Post by coggy on Jan 4, 2009 11:22:53 GMT
I totally agree, all of the players have contributed to getting us 20 points this season. Without them we would / could be in a lot worst position.
People post 2m what a waste, 3m what a waste, this is the premier and how much do you think you can buy players for ?
Some have been total shite at times BUT most have done something to contribute to where we are and without them our squad would be very thin and IF we had not bothered and saved the money then everyone would be moaning we never purchased anyone !!!
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jan 4, 2009 11:24:21 GMT
Problem is though Trumpton that TP has in general, played what we had got rather than play the new boys; which says to me that despite the old line about "only bringing players better than we already have", TP now thinks they aren't as good as the Cressy's of this world.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 11:25:00 GMT
If I buy a scewdriver for 5 quid, but it won't remove any screws in my house , but I continually try and use it because it's the only one I have, then does it only constitute a waste of money if I can't sell it to someone else for what I paid for it? H Excellent ;D |
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Post by bogus on Jan 4, 2009 11:25:03 GMT
You're right Dave, IMHO, as we needed a real deep pool of players to choose from and a padding up of the squad, for fear of injury and suspension.
The classic example is in front of our eyes at present, Pericard. He's our 5th choice striker and yet he was the only one available this weekend.
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Post by daverichards on Jan 4, 2009 11:25:07 GMT
I think you may have to agree that so far Kitson has yet to repay any of his 5.5 million The money got paid to Reading, not kitson, and so far its more like £3M as the rest was add ons for us staying up. I just don't get this modern phenomena of giving players a few months and then declaring them wank and getting on their backs when they don't hit the ground running |
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 4, 2009 11:25:45 GMT
What utter bollocks.
Any soft twat can see that at least six of the summer signings would now be valued at around half of what TP spunked away on them. (At best...I think we'd struggle to get 500k for Sonko)
If the object of the exercise was to fill the squad with average championship players, then you can pick these up for between 500k-1m each without needing to be some kind of transfer market genius. Alternatively you can sign a few Amdy Faye type players to make the numbers up, without spending a penny on a fee.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 11:26:44 GMT
I think you may have to agree that so far Kitson has yet to repay any of his 5.5 million The money got paid to Reading, not kitson, and so far its more like £3M as the rest was add ons for us staying up. I just don't get this modern phenomena of giving players a few months and then declaring them wank and getting on their backs when they don't hit the ground running ;D What a pisser statement that is |
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Post by kingdeano on Jan 4, 2009 11:27:50 GMT
i think people say pissed it up the wall because he said he would only sign players that are better than what we have! if thats the case then why did an injured griffin start at west ham when davies was raring go? why was pericard brought on so we could push cresswell left wing when 3 midfielders he signed were on the bench? why spend 5.5m on a top striker only to play him as a link man when he clearly cant play their? why have we been playing an injured rory delap when again we have 3 players he signed that could step in??? why sign sonko when he is no better than leon cort? imo he pissed it away
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Post by Bick on Jan 4, 2009 11:31:41 GMT
I don't think it was wasted whatsoever. We have a far stronger team now than before, which is the point of transfers and if (god forbid) we went down, we have a HUGE chance of coming back up
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 4, 2009 11:34:24 GMT
You could use that as a blanket defence for any manager buying any old crap that proved to be not fit for purpose, as long as you'd get the bulk of the outlay back if you chose to move them on (and I don't think we could).
We've bought outrageously badly, and we wouldn't get anywhere near the outlay back. Arguments about padding the squad out, IMO, don't cut any ice - certainly not when they're being left on the bench to accommodate the likes of Pugh and Cresswell.
I like RAF's analogy.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jan 4, 2009 11:36:21 GMT
I don't think it was wasted whatsoever. We have a far stronger team now than before, which is the point of transfers and if (god forbid) we went down, we have a HUGE chance of coming back up Is it that much stronger though? Once you scratch the surface of our best 11 (which is much better I agree) the back up players have proved that they struggle against the likes of Rotherham and Hartlepool. We have a bigger squad granted, but the talent available in reserve is very limited and it would seem, judging by TP's reluctance to play them, he knows it as well. |
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Post by daverichards on Jan 4, 2009 11:40:53 GMT
Utter Utter BULLSHIT
We have paid Top End Championship size fees, for players who are good enough for the Top End of the Championship, that is the level the club is at, to get Prem players we would have to double our spending. Yes these are big fees compared to our History of spending, however in the context of the Prem they are fuck all, our entire Budget wouldn't even buy one playing in the Chelsea back 4.
The biggest problem we have is that all of a sudden the fans expectations have shot up, seen these fees and expected world beaters, fact is £2M-£4M does not buy you a world beater
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 4, 2009 11:42:57 GMT
There are oodles of good, Prem standard players to be had in the £2-4m range.
And a lot of duffers.
No prizes for guessing which category we've primarily ended up with.
You'll get your fingers burned occasionally, but to get the first degree burns we've ended up with takes some doing.
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Post by arniepieinthesky on Jan 4, 2009 11:43:43 GMT
On the other hand, Ab Faye was a real scoop, Soro for free and Higgy was worth the money paid for him. I am willing to sit on the fence with regards to Kitson for now. Would like to see more of Tonge, Soares may pay back his money in time....not the finised article by a long shot yet though. Am Faye has done okish.....Olofinjana needs to step up, speaking to a Wolves fan, he reackons he shows he has the talent in bits...Sonko is crap!
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Post by ChesterStokie on Jan 4, 2009 11:44:52 GMT
Which ever way you dress it up there is no doubt in my mind that the purchases of Soares, Tonge, Sonko and Davies have been a complete waste of time and money.
They are simply not good enough at this level, even to play now and then when first team players are unavailable.
The performances of Soares and Davies yesterday were amongst the most inept and embarrassing I have ever seen in Stoke City shirt, and against third division opposition.
Just because Soares fell over twice against Spurs doesn't make him a good buy.
Kitson is a different matter, he is a quality player who hasn't shown it yet because of the tactical ineptitude of his manager.
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Post by RAF on Jan 4, 2009 11:45:31 GMT
No one expects world beaters Dave.
Just a couple of players who can play in the right position that we are lacking and not more fucking square pegs for fucking round holes.
H
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Post by kingdeano on Jan 4, 2009 11:47:14 GMT
ilford if you think tongue soares sonko amdy faye olifinjana are top championship players your in for an almighty shock IF we go down.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jan 4, 2009 11:49:41 GMT
Utter Utter BULLSHIT We have paid Top End Championship size fees, for players who are good enough for the Top End of the Championship, that is the level the club is at, to get Prem players we would have to double our spending. Yes these are big fees compared to our History of spending, however in the context of the Prem they are fuck all, our entire Budget wouldn't even buy one playing in the Chelsea back 4. The biggest problem we have is that all of a sudden the fans expectations have shot up, seen these fees and expected world beaters, fact is £2M-£4M does not buy you a world beater You are right Dave, the problem is the stratedgy of signing "top end Champioship players" is a flawed one as on the whole they aren't good enough. On top of that we all know the market in this country is vastly inflated so what we should have done is took a couple of gambles from the foreign markets. It can be done, Santa Cruz at Blackburn was £3.5M to name but one in recent times. TP has got these players in and it would seem he now doesn't rate them given his selection policies such as playing Cress out wide instead of Tonge and Soares. If they aren't better than Cress then they have been a waste of money. Sonko is nowhere near as good as Ryan and Abdoulaye and I would question if he's as good as Leon (  ) so again you would say he is a waste of money as well. Given that Higgy can play at centre back I would have thought another left back would have been a better buy than Sonko? |
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Post by salopstick on Jan 4, 2009 11:52:38 GMT
one word - cresswell
he is a striker forced into a left midfield role
therefore imo tonge has been a complete waste of money
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Post by stokemark on Jan 4, 2009 11:52:40 GMT
What I would have preferred is to have signed fewer, better, more experienced Prem quality players than the Soares,Tonge, Sonko's,Davies's etc that we have done.
We have pissed away money on players who have NOT improved us when the manager stated that he would only bring in players that would.
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Post by ChesterStokie on Jan 4, 2009 11:53:42 GMT
ilford if you think tongue soares sonko amdy faye olifinjana are top championship players your in for an almighty shock IF we go down. Spot on kd. I would be staggered if anyone on here now defending the purchases of these players was in Hartlepool yesterday to see them in action. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 11:56:10 GMT
the reason we describe them as a waste of money is because we have spent millions of pounds on them and yet they aren't good enough for the matches we play every saturday
i'm assuming the reason tp bought them, is to play football for us and try to win games for us
they have shown they are not good enough by a) not being able to get in the team when we play, b) not playing well when they get in the team
so it's not rocket science, the £15 million odd quid we spent on that pile of shit mentioned above would have been better spent on 2 very good players who could play regularly
looking at the championship, i feel that if we go down it would be very difficult to get back up with those players in the team
terrible business from TP on all fronts there
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 4, 2009 12:14:17 GMT
Just to throw a curve ball in here.
Let's say that Pulis has been given 15 mil to spend during January.
He thinks to himself that there are three key positions in the first team that he wants to strengthen.
He has had made a list of 8 possible targets, all of Prem standard currently valued at approx 5 mil each.
He's hoping that at least one, maybe two or even three (if he's really lucky) of those 8 targets do actually sign for us before the end of the window.
Of course he has drawn up some contingency plans but he's letting Rudge or whoever work on those as he really wants to concentrate on the players who are Prem standard.
With a day or two of the window left to go, it becomes apparent that for whatever reason, actually, NONE of Pulis' eight original targets are prepared to come to us.
However Coates says, listen Tone you can still have 10 of the 15 mil to spend on your C, D or E list targets.
What should he do?
A) Say nah, fuck it we'll make the best of the players we've got.
or
B) Drop the 10 mil on four Champ level players at roughly 2.5 mil a pop, in the hope that one or two of them might keep us up.
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Post by ChesterStokie on Jan 4, 2009 12:29:18 GMT
Paul, I don't think that's a curve ball at all.
I think what you have described, including outcome (B), is the reality of what happened in the close season, which is why we ended up with Soares, Tongue etc, and I fear it's the reality of what may now happen in the window.
What a pity about those points pissed away against Man U and W Ham. I know it's illogical but if we'd been 2 or 3 points and 6 places better off I think we would stand more chance of avoiding your scenario (B).
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I'm surprised we haven't seen more of Tonge but Soares is still young and has shown some very bright glimpses of what we may have to come. Sonko is that type of player i'm afraid and always has been. He'll have some blinders but he'll have some mares ... there's never much middle ground. Yes they were panic buys but if his original targets don't come off what would you prefer .... what we had here already?
) so again you would say he is a waste of money as well. Given that Higgy can play at centre back I would have thought another left back would have been a better buy than Sonko?
