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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 29, 2008 9:42:39 GMT
In the hysteria of Fuller's mard-arseing yesterday, I think some pretty critical mistakes by Pulis have been overlooked, notably the substitution of injured players.
Griffin was clearly struggling from the start, and his own admission was that they were toying with subbing him. We also sent out an injured Danny Pugh, who indicated straight from the kick off second half that he couldn't continue.
Pulis then spent 7 minutes messing about whilst we were playing with 9 men (8 if you include Cresswell) because of two injured players.
They equalise, Pugh is subbed for Pericard (BEFORE FULLER IS SENT OFF), all hell breaks loose, Fuller is sent off, Griffin is subbed and the game has gone.
Pulis, the man above any criticism at all, has to take a huge slice of the blame for our capitulation yesterday with his dallying over the substitution of clearly injured players.
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Post by MrMagic on Dec 29, 2008 9:44:41 GMT
Agreed - I think it goes further to the selection of injured "favourites" over fit other players. Especially when the other players are decent options.
Pericard is just unforgivable.
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 29, 2008 9:49:23 GMT
Said the same thing yesterday...it's a shame that Fuller did his little piece yesterday as it's focused people's attention away from managerial decisions which would have also cost us 3 points, and will continue to do so.
Pulis deserved a real slating for his part in that defeat, yet will escape relatively unscathed again because of Fuller's actions.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 29, 2008 9:49:55 GMT
JOE IN OZ...Great minds think alike mate. Just seen your post, created at 9.40.
Quite frankly, that is the most ridiculous substitution I have ever seen. Maybe that is what the fight was about. Fuller said "what the fuck is going on", Griffin as the chief apple provider said "he's the gaffer, and he makes the decision", so Fuller decided, "I am not playing with this useless wanker" so slaps Griff to get sent off.
Griff and Fuller, being the best pals that they are, collude and Griff tells the ref to send his mate off knowing that he is about to be subbed so he to can avoid playing alongside Pericard.
Griff then goes into the dressing room and him and Fuller start getting pissed on Fullers jamaican rum, whilst Abdoulaye and Higgy defend with tears in their eyes!
;D
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Post by backfrommeban on Dec 29, 2008 9:52:17 GMT
ABSOLUTLY SPOT ON... I WAS THERE!
I HAD A DEBATE ON THE COACH... ABOUT THIS!
* OUR AWAY FORM ALL SEASON HAS BEEN CONSISTANTLY POOR - EXCEPT THE 2ND HALF @ NEWCASTLE... LPOOL AND WIGAN WE RODE OUR LUCK! WHY?? TATICS AND FORMATIONS!
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Post by stan on Dec 29, 2008 10:16:41 GMT
Leaving aside the frankly embarrassing Fuller/Griffin saga and even the team selections, it was incredibly disappointing that we took the lead against a side struggling at home, yet still lost.
The first half yesterday was the dream: get our noses in front, defend fairly well (and we did, even if it was a bit hairy around the 35 minute-mark) and even offer some sort of threat going forward.
Within five minutes of the re-start, carrying two injured players, bringing on Pericard and conceding a very poor goal from a defensive viewpoint, it had all evaporated.
Obviously we would have had more chance of getting a point, possibly even three, but for Fuller's madness. Nonetheless, with even numbers and a clear wind, they would have won that game more times than not from 1-1.
All-in-all, a very depressing day.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Dec 29, 2008 11:23:03 GMT
Maybe he has been playing Pericard to try and put him in the shop window. If he has he will be in the reject sale section.  |
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Post by mark71 on Dec 29, 2008 11:29:16 GMT
Spot on Dave,
No one will ever, ever convince me putting pericard on and moving Creswell onto the wing would improve our performance.
As much as i want to hear an apology off Fuller I also want to know why Pulis refuses to play Tonge and Soares.
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Post by cousindupree on Dec 29, 2008 11:29:54 GMT
Yep the latest of a string of tactical errors by the messiah...coming very soon after a blunder during the Manure game where continuing with Wilkinson was an accident waiting to happen. If many of us could see it why couldn't he?
In his defence TP is at the very top of club football and the smallest mistake is capitalised on. He is on a learning curve like many of the players....but learing is all about being flexible accepting a mistake and changing your mindset.....TP needs to wake up to this or else we are gone
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Post by BristolMick on Dec 29, 2008 11:50:52 GMT
In his defence TP is at the very top of club football and the smallest mistake is capitalised on. He is on a learning curve like many of the players....but learing is all about being flexible accepting a mistake and changing your mindset.....TP needs to wake up to this or else we are gone When anything has gone wrong in the past Tony Pulis has NEVER stepped up to the plate and acknowledged it has been anything to do with him. He always tries to justify himself, or blame circumstances. He is not good at accepting blame. BM |
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Post by kkkkken on Dec 29, 2008 12:49:18 GMT
When anything has gone wrong in the past Tony Pulis has NEVER stepped up to the plate and acknowledged it has been anything to do with him. He always tries to justify himself, or blame circumstances. He is not good at accepting blame.
[/quote]
If the truth be known when it's time to step up to the plate none of us are that forth coming .
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Post by sportsman on Dec 29, 2008 12:52:39 GMT
All step forward PHW
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Post by exiledstokie on Dec 29, 2008 12:55:46 GMT
If a player isn't 100% fit then he shouldn't be playing (with the exception with world class players who even at 80% fit can turn games, luckily we dont hve any of these!)
Pugh took an almighty knock at the end of the 1st, he shouldn't have come out for the second half, we should have got Tonge on, kept the same formation which had got us 1-0 up and gone from here.
Tone needs do show some bottle and so far he isnt doing it, some of his substitutions this season have baffled me and no doubt many of the fans
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Post by lordb on Dec 29, 2008 13:13:38 GMT
TP seems incapeable of making substitions at half time (or even earlier)
this has cost us in our last two away games.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Dec 29, 2008 13:45:40 GMT
"Quite frankly, that is the most ridiculous substitution I have ever seen. Maybe that is what the fight was about. Fuller said "what the fuck is going on", Griffin as the chief apple provider said "he's the gaffer, and he makes the decision", so Fuller decided, "I am not playing with this useless wanker" so slaps Griff to get sent off.
Griff and Fuller, being the best pals that they are, collude and Griff tells the ref to send his mate off knowing that he is about to be subbed so he to can avoid playing alongside Pericard.
Griff then goes into the dressing room and him and Fuller start getting pissed on Fullers jamaican rum, whilst Abdoulaye and Higgy defend with tears in their eyes!"
Fantastic stuff!
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Post by jarhead on Dec 29, 2008 13:47:28 GMT
HE MUST TAKE THE BLAME NO ARGUMENTS
PULIS OUT
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Post by theprinceofstyle on Dec 29, 2008 13:56:54 GMT
In the hysteria of Fuller's mard-arseing yesterday, I think some pretty critical mistakes by Pulis have been overlooked, notably the substitution of injured players. Griffin was clearly struggling from the start, and his own admission was that they were toying with subbing him. We also sent out an injured Danny Pugh, who indicated straight from the kick off second half that he couldn't continue. Pulis then spent 7 minutes messing about whilst we were playing with 9 men (8 if you include Cresswell) because of two injured players. They equalise, Pugh is subbed for Pericard (BEFORE FULLER IS SENT OFF), all hell breaks loose, Fuller is sent off, Griffin is subbed and the game has gone. Pulis, the man above any criticism at all, has to take a huge slice of the blame for our capitulation yesterday with his dallying over the substitution of clearly injured players. It was farcical what was going on. Pulis just could'nt make up his mind what do with pugh. players were looking to the touchline expecting the change. When the goal came and all the shit happenend with fuller and griff players were still looking lost. I'm sure faye sprinted over to the dug out and confront pulis about what was going on!!!!!! It was mental, never seen owt like that before!!! |
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Post by fromafar07 on Dec 29, 2008 14:03:27 GMT
just cant understand some of his strange player selections over the last several games !! his continued desire to play Cresswell, his sudden desire to play Pericard, playing Delap for a cpl of games when he was clearly and obviously not fit. All this with the likes of Soares and Tonge sitting on the bench doing nothing!
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Post by bostedclog on Dec 29, 2008 14:29:17 GMT
We also sent out an injured Danny Pugh, who indicated straight from the kick off second half that he couldn't continue
Totally agree he had 15 mins to assess his injury.
Which in turn certainly put us under pressure with only playing with effectively 10 men
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Post by stoke624 on Dec 29, 2008 15:16:04 GMT
total incompetence from the management team--pugh indicated he needed to come off after 1 minute of the second half and it took pulis and co a good 5 mins to ask pericard to get ready and while he was messing about taking off all his layers(i've never seen a sub have so many layers on!)they scored
surely it was obvious that pugh would not last long after that challenge before half time(not even a word from the ref as usual!)so our natural left-sided sub,tonge should have been ready to come on--but no,he has to swap people about again rather than make a simple straight swap---does he know we have 7 subs to choose from now
he really hasn't got a clue
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Post by swampySCFC on Dec 29, 2008 15:22:25 GMT
Tone is very loyal to his players. he backed them to the hilt last year and was openly confident that we would get promoted, despite fierce criticism from a large portion of the support.
An his judgement prevailed.
Who'd back against him.
Every time we lose a couple the atmosphere becomes more negative on here than Pulis ever is
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 29, 2008 15:37:46 GMT
to me it showed that our Tone is not up to this level of management
you can't carry 2 badly injured players against an established premiership team away and expect to get away with it.
Fuller's response was indefensible but management like this is bound to make the player's question the management's judgement.
carying 2 injured players puts alot of pressure on those playing while Tonge and Soares must be royally pissed off.
If Davies was not as fit as an injured Griffin then he shouldn't even be on the bench, you need alternatives on the bench who are fit enough to play.
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Post by bobafett on Dec 29, 2008 18:32:12 GMT
I came on here yesterday and regret alot of what I posted, I was angry and a little pissed tbh but felt that TP was taking some of the blame for Fuller's antics which i still maintain is silly as TP can have no control over this sort of thing.
That said I will never ever see the logic in moving Richard Cresswell to the wing and bringing on the frankly awful Vincent Pericard. I personally have nothing against Cresswell, he works hard and can be effective up front and he is only playing due to the injuries of Kitson and Mama. But Pericard is simply nowhere near good enough to play and to bring him on ahead of Soares, tonge and even Lawrence is baffling to me. I can only see that TP would rather have a worker in the Cresswell mould on the left side rather than the more cultured Tonge. I wouldn't mind this if it was Kitson or even Mama coming on to take up the forward's role but when it's VP it just doesn't make any sense.
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Post by chessyorkshirexile on Dec 29, 2008 18:48:31 GMT
Pulis has completely lost the plot but unfortunately, unlike Roy Keane, he doesn't have the sense to know when he is out of his depth for the good of the club. Either that or he is having some sort of delusional breakdown.
Players fighting on the pitch, injured players playing, square pegs in round holes, Cresswell, Pericard, £20 m wasted on players on the bench...crazy away tactics.
I seriously fear for TP's mental state right now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2008 19:05:29 GMT
having watched the game again i feel even more negative about the prospect of us picking up any wins away from home this season
the way tony is setting the team out away from home is a disaster. you can see what is going to happen straight away.
we are basically taking a battering every time. not at any point did i think we would get a result on sunday
the dust has settled, and although riccy's behaviour is the centre of attention, i just cannot believe the mistakes TP made during the game.
not only is our approach totally wrong, but he is trying to do this with the wrong players. with these tactics, you need a constant threat on the break from 3-4 players with pace who are willing to cover a lot of ground. we just don't have that pace
in fact, we also pursue a tactic of allowing the opposition of have near-unfettered possession up to our own area
how could this work in any circumstances?
i just feel that almost no thought whatsoever has gone into the issue of how we can get some points away from home
he's just hoping we can block 20-30 shots a game, and one of ours will go in
we need to change the team away from home. we need a quicker right back who can do what higgy does and get up and down in away matches. drop rory in away games and put a quick hard working player out there (soares for now - buy one in jan) then we need a good centre mid along with whelan, and a forward like harewood who will be able to muscle in and actually take on defenders
come on pulis sort it out please
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Post by tony harrison on Dec 29, 2008 19:10:52 GMT
In the hysteria of Fuller's mard-arseing yesterday, I think some pretty critical mistakes by Pulis have been overlooked, notably the substitution of injured players. Griffin was clearly struggling from the start, and his own admission was that they were toying with subbing him. We also sent out an injured Danny Pugh, who indicated straight from the kick off second half that he couldn't continue. Pulis then spent 7 minutes messing about whilst we were playing with 9 men (8 if you include Cresswell) because of two injured players. They equalise, Pugh is subbed for Pericard (BEFORE FULLER IS SENT OFF), all hell breaks loose, Fuller is sent off, Griffin is subbed and the game has gone. Pulis, the man above any criticism at all, has to take a huge slice of the blame for our capitulation yesterday with his dallying over the substitution of clearly injured players. Spot on, the best post I have seen on here for a long time. Agree with everything you say and was discussing the same at the match yesterday with fellow supporters. Pulis needs to wake up and admit when he is not doing the club any favours. Last week he was in the paper saying the supporters understand and we have injuries. Well Pulis, I don't understand, why have those players on the bench who you have paid a lot of money for and not use them. Yesterday at 1-0 up at half time, he could have replaced Griffin and put Tonge on the left of midfield and even brought Liam on for a run out. This would have put pressure on West Ham and kept the ball away from our goal for longer periods but no it was exactly as you describe it. |
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Post by Spiderman on Dec 29, 2008 19:13:29 GMT
I agree with your initial post DJ, it seems so obvious to those who don't wear the Pulis tinted glasses.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2008 20:12:15 GMT
Tone is very loyal to his players. he backed them to the hilt last year and was openly confident that we would get promoted, despite fierce criticism from a large portion of the support. An his judgement prevailed. Who'd back against him. Every time we lose a couple the atmosphere becomes more negative on here than Pulis ever is FFS Swampy, I'm no PHW, but surely you can see the logic in some of the points raised here? There's blinkered, then just stupid. TP's loyalty to his players has gone too far. Being loyal to good players, is fine, but to players who simply aren't good enough, and who have colleagues on the bench better than them, well....  |
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Post by Davef on Dec 29, 2008 23:16:02 GMT
There's loyalty and there's downright fuckwittery.
Pulis's substitution yesterday was the latter.
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Post by ruts66 on Dec 29, 2008 23:59:38 GMT
Just after the 2nd half kick-off, Danny Pugh lay down in the centre circle and raised his leg to indicate to the ref (and bench) that he couldn't continue.
The ref saw it immediately and waved him up onto his feet, presumably allowing play to continue until the ball went dead.
At that point our first possession should have been to twat it out of the ground. None of our players did this and no-one on the bench was giving instructions to do so either.
I couldn't believe how long our bench took to make any sort of change. I screamed myself stupid at the bench for at least three minutes whilst Pugh hobbled about and West Ham played through the middle of us at will.
Griff has a moment of shitness, 1-1, and then all hell breaks loose.
The players were utterly let down by the inability of those on the touchline to quickly recognise and act upon the fact our midfield was incapacitated for an absolute eternity.
The most basic managerial ineptitude I have ever witnessed in professional football until, that is, Pericard was sent on.
I honestly don't believe Pulis has the presence of mind under pressure to act swiftly and decisively during a game.
Completely and utterly out of his depth...
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