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Post by knowingeye on Jan 13, 2008 12:38:32 GMT
Unfortunately, this type of attack occurs daily in our society and many turn the other cheek, but here we have a situation in a place we have great affinity with, our mates and families should feel secure and it is the responsibility of us all (inc the club) to help repair damage caused by such a dreadful, henious and cowardly act against one of our fellow fans.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Jan 13, 2008 13:21:10 GMT
Just to add a degree of balance to this debate....
We have only heard one side of this story
The victim is alleged by some to have something of a temper and may not be totally innocent?
I am not in any way saying that he deserved what he got - no-one does but if it reached a court of law then other information may be presented
We can't be judge and jury without the facts
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2008 13:41:50 GMT
I'll echo TWM; a bit of patience? (One way or the other) .. and all will be well. And then I'll say n'mower abite eet. ah
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Post by eeebygum on Jan 13, 2008 14:00:55 GMT
There's something about this that doesn't add up. Everyone would have sympathy if someone was attacked. But the vilification of the stewards and then the Club is highly inappropriate. The stewards are NOT the police and cannot necessarily immediately intervene (and what about the surrounding supporters?!). And the very public attempts to try and get something out of the club in reparation would strike me as being somewhat intimidatory. As has previously been said, if the attackers did come from out of our so called supporters then we share at least an equal responsibility. If the 'request' had included an element where other supporters could have contributed, this exercise wouldn't feel quite like an attempt to just embarrass the club and find the next poor target to have a go at.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2008 14:02:54 GMT
If the stewards can't intervene then what exactly is it that they're paid to do?
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Post by stokethefire on Jan 13, 2008 14:58:15 GMT
I asked " What block did the incident take place in?" "What point during the match did it occur?" " Did anyone witness the incident?"
Got no response to any of the questions.
Still no response!!!!!
Did ANYONE see ANYTHING relating to this attack.
Perhaps the club have studied the CCTV and could find nothing either. Could be that's why they are a little pissed off.
Another question - "How do you KICK a bottle at someone in the restricted area caused by the seats and supporters?
Seems that Wisemaster knows a bit more than most of us. Care to explain.
The Fire
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jan 13, 2008 15:06:19 GMT
We can't be judge and jury without the facts I think Paul makes a very sensible and reasonable point. However it still remains a sore point that the CE seems more concerned with the fact that the individual had the cheek to go and talk to the local press than stepping forward and addressing the issue. Given the attitude over ID cards, guest lists and the bastardisation of the supporters flights to Newcastle it smacks of a very loose and easy approach to the vast majority of "ordinary" supporters compared to the attention paid to corporate clients.
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Post by vientianescfc on Jan 13, 2008 15:23:07 GMT
Mark, The problem is every post ke makes regarding SCFC in general are posts that are in some way running the club down. Be it about the academy, Tony Pulis, Coates, Scholes, the shop or whatever . . . this is the persona I see and know from the Oatcake message board.
Also as had been said by other people there seems to be a vacuum type silence in regards to the full story of the attack. Without knowing both side of the story why would anyone be vilifying the club in the way ke is?
Another question which will probably never be answered is why did Martin Parker feel the necessity to go to the Sentinel?
Why not make a formal complaint to the police and the club - the club have already said they will review the CCTV footage to try and identify what happened and who the attackers were. Police and stewards were there on the night, why didn't Martin go and tell them what had happened and identify the attackers there and then? Seem rather strange to wait then the next day go and talk to the Sentinel.
As people have also posted where are the witnesses? 8000 people and no one saw anything? All seem very odd.
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Post by soicowboy on Jan 13, 2008 15:31:33 GMT
Am kind of baffled by this- we don't know the facts and if he did or didn't report it at the time. IF he didn't how could we blame Tony Scholes etc
Let's wait until we see what happened
PiiBaa..................Ting Tong if not mistaken
Figures ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2008 15:33:02 GMT
OK, so one more ... Whatever did or didn't happen to Martin, the North Stand must have been like a war-zone that Sunday? OneTwoWas Martin caught up in either of these ... Or was this another disturbance? ah
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Post by vientianescfc on Jan 13, 2008 15:39:12 GMT
PiiBaa..................Ting Tong if not mistaken Figures ;D .. .. .. who'd you ask? Actually piibaa is everyday polite and ting tong (Thai only not Lao) is slang (not so polite) Anyway carry on back to the thread. ;D
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jan 13, 2008 15:40:10 GMT
Andy,
I saw the spill over of the events you have linked to on the Block 26 concourse.
I'm confident that there is no tie up with the Martin Parker incident.
The stewards were not only active in what I saw but were smack bang in the middle of it. The not so bright dears tried to jump a couple of supporters mob handed in the middle of a packed concourse and wondered why other supporters turned on them and gave them a shoeing back.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 13, 2008 15:41:22 GMT
I agree with WM, Soi and Stokethefire. I find it odd that in a packed stand no one who uses this board has come on and given an independent account of what happened. We haven't even been told where the incident took place. That could just be one of those strange things that happen or it could mean that the account we have read so far may be a very biased one.
As to Sholes's replies to knowingeye, as most of us have not seen those replies (apart from Mark Wolstanton?) we are hardly in a position to draw any conclusions from what was said in them.
I'm not taking sides on this one until I know a lot more.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jan 13, 2008 15:49:28 GMT
Pii Baa,
I agree that there maybe another dimension to this and indeed we need to hear the full story.
I doubt Mr Parker approached the Sentinel though. I imagine they would approach him at haste if they got wind of this.
I can't see it right of Mr Scholes to take objection to this and withhold any club intervention on this basis and this basis alone. This is the jist of what Mr Scholes has told KE.
As far as KE being negative I can tell you that actions speak louder than words. There are an extra 200 Stokies able to fly up to Newcastle on Wednesday that would not have been had it been down to Mr Scholes and his original 50 seater flight for players, staff and hangers on.
The only sad part is that KE had handed it over as a cheap flight charter to Mr Scholes so that the ordinary supporter could afford to travel but Mr Scholes has turned it 100% into a corporate hospitality special. Fuck the standard fan, if you will.
edit:
Having just read Fornside's view, I should add that it isn't a matter of taking sides, I'm simply questioning the attitude of a club that appears to be penalising a supporter who dares to speak to the press regarding incidents that take place at The Britannia Stadium. It is censorship, surely. How can anyone be comfortable with that regardless of anything else?
I have no idea of the events leading up to the injuries sustained by Mr Parker and I am not going to draw any conclusions as to who was right or wrong until I see the full investigation properly reported.
I have had a discussion with KE, not read any emails just to clarify.
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Post by stokiesteve1966 on Jan 13, 2008 16:03:59 GMT
The club are right, i doubt the senty did approach him, why would they? and he could always refuse, to see what the club could do about it first, then go to them if it comes to nothing? martin has said something that has upset someone, i cant really see a gang of fans, attacking someone for kicking bottles, all seems bullshit to me, And as for stewards not doing anything WTF? i think they would of done something, they all have radios well most of them, that go to the police, and there was about 20-30 police standing by boothen end john smiths corner, all through the match.
VERY STRANGE
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Post by stokethefire on Jan 13, 2008 16:34:44 GMT
Mark
How have the club penalised a supporter for talking to the Sentinel?
Have they issued a statement along the lines of " If he hadn't spoken to the media we would have given him free flights ".
That would be penalising him but I don't believe for a minute they would have said the above.
If he hadn't spoken to the media he still wouldn't have been on the plane so I can't see how the penalisation thing comes into it.
To me it appears that the attack as described is as bogus as the announcement that the guys missus had gone into labour.
The Fire
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 13, 2008 17:02:02 GMT
Perhaps my words "taking sides" were not the best way to put it, Mark. Let's just say that I have no intention of criticising the club or Scholes's stance on the "incident" until I know exactly the nature of the "incident".
You feel you have enough info about it for you to criticise the club's response. Fair enough - but I don't feel I have enough information about the incident to criticise the club based on what I know. From what I have read on this thread, I am not alone in this view.
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Post by soicowboy on Jan 13, 2008 18:15:57 GMT
Cliff Carr once knocked my bovril over during a pre match warm up
Had queued for ages- he did put his hand up and apologise but was disgusted that I wasn't awarded a free holiday to the Maldives in return.
Like I said- we don't know the facts- let's leave this one until we do-
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Post by stayingupforbigbazza on Jan 13, 2008 18:34:48 GMT
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Post by knowingeye on Jan 14, 2008 10:40:20 GMT
I still don't like Tony Pulis from his previous track record and issues that are well known towards the end of his last tenure at Stoke City. But I can't take away what he's done here this time round.
Re Martin Parker. I made a suggestion to the club and they informed me that they are looking to do something else, but not take up the suggestion. I will not publish e-mails between myself and Tony Scholes on here or elsewhere. I have also stated that there are always two sides to a story and the matter, I suggest, is possibly subject to a criminal investigation, hence the club's lack of public statement.
Piibaa. " The problem is every post ke makes regarding SCFC in general are posts that are in some way running the club down. Be it about the academy, Tony Pulis, Coates, Scholes, the shop or whatever . . . this is the persona I see and know from the Oatcake message board." That's way off the mark my friend, as history has shown and we're all entitled to our views. Eye
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