Five Live Debate Tonight.

[The Stubborn Optimist]

Not sure if anyone else caught the debate on 5 live earlier tonight regarding Arsene Whingers outburst against Stoke.

They had a couple of the 5 Live football commentators, David Pleat and that Italian journalist who writes in the Times.

I didn't catch the start of it but it centred around whether Whinger was justified in his condemnation of Stoke and the type of football they play.

The Italian guy was quite blunt about Stoke, suggesting that our football is unattractive, one dimensional and fairly basic. He suggested that it didn't have to be like that to survive in the Premiership. He used Reading, Hull, West Brazil as teams who have come into the Premiership and played "football" with some success. he reckons we only have 2 players with any style, Ricardo and Liam.

He further argued that TP had chosen to go down the power/physical route by virtue of the players he had chosen to buy.

He came out with a quite a surprising fact. In the top flight divisions of Europe, only 12 teams have nett (Incoming less outgoing sales) transfer spending higher than Stoke this summer .

He reckons that the way Stoke play may be effective for the moment but it won't sustain a long term future in the Premier and that to stay there Stoke will have to change the way they play.

To be fair to David Pleat he came to our and TP's defence. He said there isn't a right way or wrong way to play. A manager must choose a system that suits his players and that gets results. He reckons that if Stoke stay in the Premier then the way we play will evolve as we become more established and are able to attract more established players. He cited Bolton as an example of a team changing its style of play over a period of time and he expects the same will happen with Stoke.

He also said that the way Stoke play exposed shortcomings in the Arsenal side which lacks any sort of leader. because of this Arsenal find it difficult to play against sides like Stoke. The Shit and Chelsea wouldn't have the same problems coping with Stoke because they have leaders in their sides.

What annoyed me about the discussion was not the assumption that Stoke play a physical, powerful and direct game but that they also use a bit of strong arm stuff to intimidate other sides, this seems now to be taken as read because Whinger says so.

Whatever anyone thinks of the way Stoke play, and it certainly divides opinion, anyone who bothers to watch us with any amount of objectivity certainly can't accuse us of being a bunch of brawlers.

[upthepotters]

we are stoke who cares what other people think

[Deleted]

Marcotti's usually quite complimentary about us on The Times' podcast, so it's disappointing to hear him get stuck into us, and moreover I thought a usually well-informed journalist such as himself wouldn't peddle the "Hull play football" myth.

[Olgrligm]

How can he say Brazil played 'football' with some success when they currently lie in 19th position. Even in their recent forays into the Premiership they've had Gary Megson playing long ball stuff as manager.

[Parksy]

You look at what the journos say and then add that to what the average fans say in the blogs, messages etc, then I woud say it is a fair proportion that say we have more about us than just Rory. Most say fair play to us, we have a new "weapon" at our disposal and are using it to our best advantage. Some even say we play some attractive football as well.

The game is all about opinions, it always has been and always will be. The problem is there are some people whose opnion seems to matter than others. Let's hope those other fans' opinions start to count in our favour.



Then again, who cares? We are happy

[The Stubborn Optimist]

He was quite effusive about Hull, Brazil and Reading. He was praising Hull for spending less than Stoke but getting more inventive and attrcative players e.g. Geovanni (Sp. ?) Whereas Stoke had stuck to type in going for Olafanjani, Faye, Sonko et al.

Pleat countered this by pointing out that just because a player is over 6 ft. doesn't mean he can't be skilfull and be comfortable on the floor and used Mama as an example to back this up.

At one point in the debate you began to sense that Pleat and Marcotti really don't see eye to eye on this issue. Pleat even brought up one of the top Italian sides (Inter, I think) which was "the biggest side I've ever seen, not one of 'em under 6 ft!"

[dexter97]

Nov 6, 2008 22:34:47 GMT @robvandeurzen83 said:

Marcotti's usually quite complimentary about us on The Times' podcast, so it's disappointing to hear him get stuck into us, and moreover I thought a usually well-informed journalist such as himself wouldn't peddle the "Hull play football" myth.

I've heard him lay into Stoke and TP a few times on Five Live (never heard the podcasts). I'm afraid he's always come across as a blinkered, ill-informed fucktard.

[starkiller]

ANOTHER fucking debate, going over the same fucking ground.



And the media have the nerve to call US boring.

[Deleted]

Nov 6, 2008 23:02:00 GMT dexter97 said:

Nov 6, 2008 22:34:47 GMT @robvandeurzen83 said:

Marcotti's usually quite complimentary about us on The Times' podcast, so it's disappointing to hear him get stuck into us, and moreover I thought a usually well-informed journalist such as himself wouldn't peddle the "Hull play football" myth.

I've heard him lay into Stoke and TP a few times on Five Live (never heard the podcasts). I'm afraid he's always come across as a blinkered, ill-informed fucktard.

The podcasts are really good, he comes across there as someone meticulously prepared and well-researched. Haven't heard this five live debate though so can't really comment on that.

[bogus]

To be fair to Marcotti, and I wouldn't usually bother on his previous form, he did say that Stoke/Pulis had every right to play the way that they do, they are doing so effectively, but he doesn't think it's a strategy that succeeds long term. Pleat actually agreed on this too.
He also stated that Wenger was WRONG and that ref's could well be influenced by his comments.

He once, in an early season interview, said that Allardyce had succeeded this way, but Pulis is no Allardyce. I get the feeling from this evening that he may be softening on this opinion.

[serpico]

I don't care about being attractive, certainly not this season anyway, but I'll bet you any money there has not been any more exciting games than the ones we've seen this season at the Britannia, and thats what it is all about, entertainment. Perhaps barring the Chelsea game, every single game has been well worth the money, people can talk about WBA games, and obviously I'm biased, but I'd much rather watch this stoke team than watch them pass pretty little triangles.

[cousindupree]

Marcotti is right in his view that TP's strategy this season is for muscle ahead of tippy tappy. Its TP's preferred way of playing and he is comfortable with it. I would have been gobsmacked if during the summer he had even given Geovanni a seconds thought and it was no surprise that he brought in big strong players all over the park.
We will see if the means justify the end result and if we stay up TP would be proved correct. Marcotti is wong when he says you cant survive for long in the prem playing that way....Bolton in particular have had some success even European qualification playing a similar style.
I am happy with Tone's strategy so far just praying that he brings in playing who can give us a plan B when we need one.
As for Hull playing beautiful football...I suspect he hasn't really watched much of them and is just jumping on the bandwagon of the media loving Hull.
Its nonesense to label us boring...ffs...our home games this season have been packed with incident and excitement...again its lazy and annoys me. At least many other journos reporting on the home matches have called it right...fewer better places to be than at the Brit for a home match at the moment.

[stokebill]

Marcotti was very outspoken about us during the run-in last season. He had, back then, very deeply entrenched views about how we play football. This provoked a 'forceful' response from Stoke fans and when interrogated admitted he only seen us play once before, on television (if I remember correctly our poor defeat away at QPR).

It's a problem we'll keep encountering, the preconceptions of how we play. Increasingly so post-Wenger - to most he's just confirmed them.

For every Hull, WBA and Reading he quotes (yo-yo WBA, relegated Reading, do Hull really play with any less intensity and aggression than us, bar Geovannni?) then there's a Bolton, Portsmouth to counter his argument.

Pleat is correct when he says that there is no right or wrong way to play football, and I'd urge the likes of Marcotti, Dennis or Durham to read (if Durham can) the match reports from the Britannia this season to see that we've been involved in some of the most entertaining games of the season. The decibel level confirms this.

[swampySCFC]

Its becoming tiresome now. The only way to beat it will be to stick the points on the board as quickly as we can.

[stokebill]

That point about only 12 teams in Europe outspending Stoke last summer is completely misleading too, if it was intended to use as a stick to beat Pulis with.

We're playing catch up (23 years worth), our team would be in the bottom 3 of the Premier League in terms of transfer value, if we sold our team tomorrow. Probably 1.5 David Bentley's. So we are perfectly justified playing the game in whichever manner we see fit to survive.

[lancer]

Every game we play from now on, will be a talking point for the pro or anti Stoke City experts.
We DO play the beauitiful game, we just play it differently.

[JoeinOz]

Footballs all the same