The English Grass Roots debate

[twinedwitherlangen]

Seeing as it seems to be Stoke City who are partly to blame for England's national game being in disaray according to certain pundits and journos, thought i'd pop in a few thoughts

For starters, all this Arsenal debate centres around not allowing, or encouraging the 'flare' players to play, well, these 'flare' players, aren't English anyway - so that ends that

Also, if it's because of robust challenging, hard work, good team work and tough tackling players stopping all this flare, and stunting England at grass roots level, then how comes, our greatest England team was in 1966 - fine players, but all hard working, and none of this fancy flicky Ronaldo/Van Persie daft

And since then our best recent team was Euro '96 (in my opinion)

Now, England players featuring in this squad included....

Tony Adams, Paul Ince, Stuart Pearce, Paul Gascoigne, Teddy Sheringham, Alan Shearer, Gary Neville, Darren Anderton, Robbie Fowler, Steve Stone and even Nick Barmby, to name a few

All 'flare' players i think not, because we dunna have to play like poncey nancies to get anywhere, and it just angers me that anyone can say that Stoke City are taking the English game backwards...

No, England need some backbone, grit, determination and fighting spirit, so take note 'flare players' - get your foot in!

I'm proud of Stoke City for the way they play, it's all i wanted when we got promoted, to ruffle some feathers, and it seems we've done more than that, and all within the laws of the game

That was all written quite quick, so bear with me if i make no sense and i've missed stuff out

;D

[JoeinOz]

Success in nogger means having a team that can compete physically as well as having the technique. Look at this season for example. We played Chelsea and as well as being technically excellent (best we've played IMHO) there's no way they were going to be hustled and hassled. If you lean on them they just lean back harder. Now look at the difference between them and Arsenal. Arsenal semed like they just didn't want to be there. To play with the ball you have to win the ball. You have to have balance. Traditional midfields needed a buzzer a cruncher and a spreader. Now every one has to be prepared to press. Thats one reason Matt Le Tiss, despite his sumptuous talent, wasn't right for England.

Brazil in 1970 are often reckoned to be the greatest team ever. Do you think you could push them around? No way, they were seriously aard.

The keyword is balance. BALANCE!!!!

[OldStokie]

I was just about to post a new thread but saw this one. It will do fine for what I have to say.

Why Wenger is wrong.

I’m still angry at his comments. Not because of the vitriol of his attack, but because he represents all that is wrong in the game today. He thinks he knows it all and yet he knows little. He doesn’t understand. He really doesn’t. I won’t stereotype him. As a Frenchman. There were, and are, many brave Frenchmen who would, probably, tell him what I’m thinking. “Just fuck off, Wenger, along with the rest of your ilk who want to change our national sport into ‘entertainment’.”

Football has never been entertainment. It just isn’t. Well, not in the way that ballet or the theatre or the arts are. Football is tribalism. Football is war. It’s what turns us supporters on. Well, most of us. And just as we get a kick out of winning a war or a battle, so we do the same when our own team kicks ass. Especially his ass. The Big Ike’s ass.

Many on here will understand where I’m coming from. They’re old enough to remember when football was not the sterilized crap it is today. Attracting sterilized supporters and their sterilized ideas and sterilized players and sterilized managers and sterilized owners…etc…etc. They’re winning you know! How many ‘Eddy Clamps’ or ‘Dennis Smiths’ or Norman Hunters’ or Tommy Smiths’ do you see in the game today? None! I’m not talking about such animals as Mick Kennedy who used to play for us, or that uberbastard, Joey Barton. No, I’m talking about defenders who would put the fear of God into the opposition before they walked on the park. Because they took no prisoners. The ‘Men ‘O War’. Nearly every team had one. Or tried to get one. It was necessary. To win the war. And it was great because we supporters loved their hardness. In truth, they represented what we wished we were.

But now, we are being led into another world: Wenger’s World. This is a world where tackling is banned. Or frowned upon. Because they want their ‘artists’ to display their talents. Without hindrance. And woe betide anyone who dares upset these new ideals. If they do, they revert to a new form of football: diving and cheating, complaining, moaning. And now, finally, calling anyone who dares tackle one of their precious artistes, “Cowards”. WTF! Are they serious? How many of these ‘artistes’ are there in the world? Enough to run about four clubs I would say. All the rest are what we call, ‘honest players’: those whose talent is hard graft and some small skill. Stoke City. Or most other teams.

So, Wenger, and others of your ilk, just fuckoff! You wouldn’t even begin to understand the emotions felt by Stoke supporters when they well and truly rubbed both yours and your tippy-tappy player’s noses into the Britannia Stadium turf. We won the fucking war, you tart. And that’s what it’s all about. Well, it is to most fans. Well, to most non-sterilized fans.

OS.

[JoeinOz]

Thing is though a few years ago Arsenal had balance. They had solid ball winners as well as the silky stuff. They had brilliant balance.

Arsenal Whinger can moan all he wants , he picked his side and left out Walcott and Van Persie , cheers Arsene what a bollock to drop!! Theri pace would have made us play differently. He's also got to look at himself for signing centrer halves who can't head , full backs who can't tackle and goalies who don't come for balls into the box . Even saying all this its very encouraging to see us compete so well and throughly deserve to beat the much vaunted ARSEnal . And of coarse Van Persie deserved to get sent off , can you imagine his reaction if a Stoke player had done that ! THIS PLAYER SHOULD NEVER PLAY THE GAME AGAIN like he did about Martin Taylor.

I know thats off the subject of the thread a bit BUT amid all this we should remember that Wenger has made some right cock ups.