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Post by sgtpotter89 on Aug 20, 2008 23:41:03 GMT
according to Healy's agent. what a waste.
they get Cisse and then they go and get a guy who has never done anything at premiership level and not much at championship level
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Post by chellster on Aug 20, 2008 23:58:34 GMT
Keane really is building a rod for his own back.
How much did he spend last year?
Then he says he needs £50million to make Sunderland competetive.
Then he absolutely pisses the £50million down the pan.
Cisse, Diouf, Healy...
Honestly think that with a couple more defeats Keane's head will be on the line.
He has had everything he has asked for, surely anything other than success would now be deemed failure.
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kert
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Post by kert on Aug 21, 2008 1:20:34 GMT
I find it hard to see how people are so bewildered by Keanes transfer policy, lets put it in simple terms... we came up with a poor side.. definitely not as strong as either yours or West Broms... so we had to strengthen heavily. We tried for the big players i.e Forlan, Nugent, Baines but they wouldnt come so we had to turn to the Championships best players. Sure we spent 50 million but here's the facts... we stayed up comfortably, Derby and Birmingham were both relegated so despite the fact we actually spent 50 million... we will have earnt that back through survival and be in a much stronger financial position for that. Now the signings which we made put down a base.... Gordon, Richardson, Reid, Chopra and of course Kenwyne Jones are all in their early twentys and will form the base of our team for years. We also brought in some players for smaller fees to bolstur the squad on a short term basis to help us acheive the ultimate goal of survival. They helped us acheive that so money well spent.
This season we are looking to build upon that base and have spent 20 million on proven Premiership players: Tainio, Chimbonda, Malbranque and Diouf. Followed by the loan signing of Cisse. Not bad overall.... bear in mind we are owned by very rich owners who are willing to support Keane. The reason being; he has acheived alot and he is a figure head for our club... and is pivitol in attracting irish buisness/press and players.
The reason behind the Healy deal: We have 3 fit strikers at the moment.... Murphy, Stokes and Chopra..... both Murphy and Stokes arent good enough. (Diouf is considered a winger) So yes 2 or 3 strikers are needed...
So how on earth can you say that he pisses 50 million down the pan on Cisse, Diouf and Healy???
Diouf = 2.5 million
Cisse = Loan (No transfer fee)
Healy = 1.5 million or p/e for Dickson Etuhu
Combined total = Potentially 3.5 million/5million MAX.
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Post by garyhackett on Aug 21, 2008 1:28:11 GMT
Kert- a lot of people on here are jealous that keane is given an unlimited amount of funds.
I dont agree that you came up with a worse squad than us though.
Kenwyn Jones is extremely over rated we had him on loan and he was very average.
Think your policy is a good one, it seems u want to stay up at all costs which when u consider how much it is worth each year to do so then it becomes self explanatory.
Would love to finally sign Higgy from you who i see as a must purchase to lead our team this season and give us somemuch needed organisation.
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kert
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Post by kert on Aug 21, 2008 1:41:05 GMT
"Kenwyn Jones is extremely over rated we had him on loan and he was very average."
Dont want to sound biased but trust me, he is certainly not over-rated. He was the reason we survived, he was what seperated us from the bottom 3 and survial.... our entire game was based around him and he would walk into any team outside the top 4 (including Tottenham now).
His pace, strength and ariel ability is superb, and the fact that Wenger praised him, both Vidic and Terry labelled him as the toughest player they came up against in the air during last season and the top 4 were interested speaks volumes. Trust me, we are a completely different team without him....
*May I add he has improved a hell of alot, even from his days at Southampton he is a completely different animal now... hes figured out how to use his raw ability and put himself about.
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Post by garyhackett on Aug 21, 2008 1:44:41 GMT
I disagree i saw plenty of him here and he is very average, maybe u are wearing rose coloured specs on this one as he was your ONLY decent striker last year but now u are trying to make the step up u will find him becoming more and more redundant.
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kert
Youth Player
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Post by kert on Aug 21, 2008 1:52:17 GMT
You are very very wrong, he was not only our only decent striker, he was our best player (still is)... if you pose that question on the SMB i can guarentee you that the overwhelming majority would agree with me. He was the main reason that we survived and Birmingham and Reading did not. Trust me, I watched him play regularly in the Premiership.... he won absoloutly everything in the air... and he has blistering pace (fastest striker in the league according to Nikes speed test *not sure how accurate that was*).
Go watch the Reading game or perhaps the West Ham game and im telling you... at times he looks absoloutly world class. His only criticism is that sometimes he doesnt show up... but even on those days he still causes problems. The fact he attracted solid interest from the top 4 just shows how well he performed....
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 21, 2008 2:00:31 GMT
When I saw Jones last season I couldn't quite believe it. When he was with us there was no indication at all he could cut it at that level. Perhaps Roy Keane is a motivator extraordinaire!
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Post by 4kingal on Aug 21, 2008 2:45:23 GMT
Sunderland are welcome to Healy
We want Zigic ;D ;D
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Post by vote for pedro on Aug 21, 2008 3:51:55 GMT
i think all the stoke and southamton fans were laughing our tits off when we saw how much you paid for jones.
He was very poor in the cc and there was no way he would have cut it in the prem.
So i think you've signed his twin brother that can play a bit of football ;D
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Post by chellster on Aug 21, 2008 4:24:30 GMT
I find it hard to see how people are so bewildered by Keanes transfer policy, lets put it in simple terms... we came up with a poor side.. definitely not as strong as either yours or West Broms... so we had to strengthen heavily. We tried for the big players i.e Forlan, Nugent, Baines but they wouldnt come so we had to turn to the Championships best players. Sure we spent 50 million but here's the facts... we stayed up comfortably, Derby and Birmingham were both relegated so despite the fact we actually spent 50 million... we will have earnt that back through survival and be in a much stronger financial position for that. Now the signings which we made put down a base.... Gordon, Richardson, Reid, Chopra and of course Kenwyne Jones are all in their early twentys and will form the base of our team for years. We also brought in some players for smaller fees to bolstur the squad on a short term basis to help us acheive the ultimate goal of survival. They helped us acheive that so money well spent. This season we are looking to build upon that base and have spent 20 million on proven Premiership players: Tainio, Chimbonda, Malbranque and Diouf. Followed by the loan signing of Cisse. Not bad overall.... bear in mind we are owned by very rich owners who are willing to support Keane. The reason being; he has acheived alot and he is a figure head for our club... and is pivitol in attracting irish buisness/press and players. The reason behind the Healy deal: We have 3 fit strikers at the moment.... Murphy, Stokes and Chopra..... both Murphy and Stokes arent good enough. (Diouf is considered a winger) So yes 2 or 3 strikers are needed... So how on earth can you say that he pisses 50 million down the pan on Cisse, Diouf and Healy??? Diouf = 2.5 million Cisse = Loan (No transfer fee) Healy = 1.5 million or p/e for Dickson Etuhu Combined total = Potentially 3.5 million/5million MAX. Fair enough Kert, some of the signings are ok but he is doing his best to spend that £50million quick as he can (and who wouldn't) but I can't see you guys making any waves with the players he has bought. But after spending so much, is mere survival good enough for your board and your fans? Do you both now demand silverwear? |
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Post by cousindupree on Aug 21, 2008 7:01:43 GMT
You make some good points Kert...credit to Sunderland last season to stay up and finish above the likes of Bolton and Fulham. Last season you did it with a very good goalkeeper a decent striker in Jones but not much else to be honest. So much as I dislike Roy Keane he should take a lot of credit.
Its interesting to look at Sunderland as they try and establish themselves in the Prem. The lazy journos say look at Sunderland they spent 50m and just stayed up...but its not how much its how well you spend and if their is a major flaw in Keanes management ability its his transfer dealings. Sunderland's next goal is to push on to mid-table and above the likes of Middlesboro Wigan and West Ham. They are not going to do this with signings like Cisse Diouf and Healy...these are distinctly below average signings....I would have groaned if we had picked them up to be honest. I am surprised that Sunderland are not able to attract better players and thats down to 2 things either Keanes transfer targets are low or players dont want to come to Sunderland...if its the latter then I am worried for my own club.
But Sunderland will have a comfortable season...merely because at the moment 2 relegation places look nailed on for Hull and us.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Aug 21, 2008 7:37:17 GMT
No matter how much criticism Keane takes (some of it warrented, some of it on the back of his stupid comments about the Fulop deal) he has done well in the transfer market. Chimbonda and Malbranque are decent signings (especially for the money they cost) and I wouldn't be surprised if Diouf and Cisse go on to prove themselves equally as effective. He proved me wrong last season when I pissed myself laughing at the signings of Richardson and Jones and I wouldn't put it past him to do it again. Still hope we dick 'em twice this season though.  |
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Post by sunshiner on Aug 21, 2008 8:11:31 GMT
As I said on the other thread we had little choice.
We survived just but I doubt we would of without the addition of Bardsley, Reid and Evans in January.
As for Jones without him we would of been sunk without trace before January. In my opinion there are 2 things to this, he wanted his prem opportunity so upped his game, I don't know what he was like for you on loan but trust me for us for 3/4 quarters of the season he was immense. The last quarter he looked tired / jaded. What also helped him was a poor midfield, we played to this strengths back towards goal, high balls etc. Whether he can look and be as good with trying to find space and balls from the side is a different matter he will have to improve his game considerably. What people also forget is that he started as a CH so is still relatively inexperienced at CF.
We needed quantity rather than quality and this has helped us stay up, my opinion again for what it is worth. CCC players are capable of performing above themselves for a few games, we kept changing the team which helped as they tried harder to be in the team. I don't think it was delibrate as their form dropped if left in the team for 5/6 games in a row.
If you want to be competitive in the prem, you simply have to have prem quality players. The going rate is probably £4 - 5 Million per player and double that for certain positions. So a team of average prem players is going to cost at least £50 Million whether you like it or not.
I understand how frustrating it is trying to get players in as they don't want to come and its hard to stay there without getting the players in. The only way is to overpay on transfer fees and wages or keep to a budget and do the best you can. In my view it all depends what shape the squad is when you come into the prem and if you don't want to go out all guns blazing the sensible approach is use it to build your squad except that you might be relegated but knowing you will go back into the CCC with a much stronger squad and a great chance of coming back up.
Even after all the money RK has spent we are still short on quality and buys will be short term.
As for Healy can't understand it and really see it as a waste tbh. He needs to give his head a shake on this one.
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Post by jamest on Aug 21, 2008 10:15:13 GMT
Hi, another Sunderland fan here.
Another thing people need to realise is that as a squad were are much stronger than this time last time. Cos you will find the newly promoted teams really start to struggle generally by the time of about November due to injuries and suspensions, i.e. last November we had our best centre half (Nosworthy), right winger (Edwards), centre mid (Whitehead) and left winger (Richardson) out injured and we really couldnt get a point.
So the point is now with our signings, that if we get a couple of injuries we wouldnt be replacing them with utter crap like Halford and McShane, in fact we'd probably be replacing them with the people who were out injured last year (Except Nos, Nos =God).
By the way, people need to give their head a shake if they think people like Chimbonda, Cisse, Tainio, Malbranque and Diouf arent good enough for a mid-table prem club, because they are proven prem quality (They have all played for a top 5 club some points in their careers), something we have found hard to attract over the past few seasons.
Re: Expectations. The expectations I have and I feel a lot of Sunderland fans have this season is just to be like West Ham last year, basically the season over by March and not be in any relegation worries and hopefully have a cup run.
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Post by georgeberrysafro on Aug 21, 2008 10:39:57 GMT
When I saw Jones last season I couldn't quite believe it. When he was with us there was no indication at all he could cut it at that level. Perhaps Roy Keane is a motivator extraordinaire! Jones was superb when I saw him on MOTD last year, without question worth the money and the player I'd have out of that Sunderland team. Yeah, based on his time here 'bambi on ice' was average, but he was young and learning his way, he still scored a few and I don't think I've ever seen a player improve so much over such a short period of time. Sunderland are going to really miss him this season. |
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