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Post by Beebster on Aug 18, 2008 20:48:51 GMT
Phil Thompson predicted both Bolton and Stoke to be relegation fodder but after watching the sides clash at the Reebok Stadium on Saturday, did he see anything to change his mind?
Are there any positives for the Potters despite their 3-1 defeat? And could a prophecy of doom for the Trotters have been a bit premature...?
Bad draw
As I said on Saturday, it was a case of 'Welcome to the Premier League' for Stoke City.
They probably got a bad draw in Bolton because while Stoke are very direct, Bolton know how to deal with that because they play a direct game themselves at times. It was really a case of the biter being bitten.
I tipped both of these teams to struggle when I made my pre-season predictions but the sides that will survive will the ones who win their own little battles against teams who are going to be around them - particularly the home matches, and Hull managed to do exactly that against Fulham.
Before the game, we chatted about how Bolton would handle Rory Delap's long throws - the answer was magnificently. The two central defenders in particular - Gary Cahill and Andy O'Brien - were absolutely outstanding.
And lo and behold, it was Stoke who got done by set pieces. Kevin Davies did what he's really good at doing - holding people off - and flicked the ball into the corner of the net, and Stoke were all at sea with their marking again when they allowed the debutant Johan Elmader to score with a simple header.
As for Gretar Steinsson's goal, whether it was a fluke or not, it was a magnificent strike, and seeing as it's the start of the season, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt!
Tried and Trusted
Yes, they're direct but the Potters played some really good football as well. If they're going to survive this season though, they can't play 4-4-2.
Gary Megson used a tried and trusted formula playing Elmander up front on his own and Kevin Davies wide right in a five-man midfield and in my opinion, that's the sort of system Stoke should look to employ. You can play 4-5-1 and still be attacking, as Bolton showed.
I think Tony Pulis will have to wise up a little bit because while I admire him for playing 4-4-2 away from home, his side was a bit too open for my liking and if they were cut to pieces by a team like Bolton, no disrespect to them, they'll be even more up against it when they face the better 'passing' sides.
But it's early doors and there's plenty of hope for Stoke.
Like Hull City did on the opening day, I fancy them to win a lot of games at home with set pieces. Stoke had a couple of half-chances at the Reebok but in the Premier League, you have to take your chances when they come along.
I was impressed by Ricardo Fuller and Liam Lawrence. They seemed to give Stoke a bit more impetus, a bit more penetration when they came on so their contributions will be important.
They have to frighten and worry teams at the Britannia, target points from those teams that they think will be in the bottom six with them, and keep their fingers crossed for something on the road.
It's a fantastic experience for them, though. They also have to enjoy it and hope that they can do a Bolton or a Wigan - those teams are the exemplars.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 18, 2008 20:52:20 GMT
A decent article from him! I was expecting a load of crap but that is fair from him. Maybe 4-5-1 away from home wll work but at home it should be 4-4-2 all the way.
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Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Aug 18, 2008 20:53:48 GMT
a pretty fair article i think. although personally i think we are the sort of team who can play 442(as long as the midfield stays super fit and whelen/delap/diao are happy holding away from home), kitson up front alone is in my opinion, a really stupid idea
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Post by Beebster on Aug 18, 2008 20:53:57 GMT
Thats what i thought Bayern - agree with formations he suggest but we should be goin for the wins away at teams like Bolton (I.E. being more attack minded 4-4-2) but we usually play 4-4-1-1 if Mama is playing.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Aug 18, 2008 20:58:34 GMT
pretty spot-on to be honest.
Also feel that we have to play 4-5-1 quite a lot this season.
On Saturday if we go gung-ho against Villa, heir pace will murder us on the break. We must play it cagey and accept that a 0-0 would be a fantastic result against a team who could break into the top 4 this season.
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Post by swampySCFC on Aug 18, 2008 21:06:42 GMT
Is there any way to get the game stats?
Be interested to know what the numbers are
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 18, 2008 21:11:05 GMT
Sorenson Delap Faye Davies Dickinson --------Diao------------ ---Seyi----Whelan Lawrence-------Phillps  ----------Kitson--------- |
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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 18, 2008 21:25:33 GMT
That's a bloody good article. Impressed with that.
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Post by Oatcake Andy on Aug 19, 2008 6:35:31 GMT
Good article and I think TP will have to look at the 4-5-1 formation. Certainly I think someone (Diao?) is needed to sit in front of the back four. Kitson is probably the man for me up front with Fuller coming on as sub to change things/chase the game if required. At home I think we stick to 4-4-2.
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Post by rorymscfc on Aug 19, 2008 7:47:00 GMT
Thommo has gone up in my estimation after that excellent - and very fair - article.
RoryM
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Post by monsoonmoon on Aug 19, 2008 8:36:08 GMT
Good article. Sorenson Delap Faye Davies Dickinson --------Diao------------ ---Seyi----Whelan Lawrence-------Phillps ----------Kitson--------- Where Philips is, I could imagine Fuller being pretty effective. Only downside is how willing he'd be to track back. Against Osasuna it was interesting to see how they tweaked it around for 10 minutes in the second half. The midfield was something like ------------Faye-------------Diao-------------- Lawrence(?)------------------------Cresswell -----------------------Oli------------------------ Suited Oli brilliantly, as it allowed for his last minute run to be used to full effect. In this altered midfield the worry of Fuller's tracking back should he replace Cresswell is somewhat covered by allowing for Diao/Faye to come across. Although, then you think about possible gaps in the middle? The Fuller idea probably isn't the best one, because essentially you'll end up playing with two strikers just that one has more of a free-role. For me though, Oli could shine in that position. He's capable of getting goals, and with Lawrence's supply and his runs into the box he could get a few goals, then the two DM's offer massive protection to the back four. |
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Post by bigb35 on Aug 19, 2008 9:17:07 GMT
sounds about right
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Post by Beebster on Aug 19, 2008 10:58:42 GMT
Is there any way to get the game stats? Be interested to know what the numbers are Here they are; Bolton v Stoke Shots on Target - 5-2 Shots off Target - 6-5 Blocked shots - 4-2 Corners -4-3 Fouls - 15-17 Offsides - 2-1 Yellow Cards -1-2 Tackles - 21-8 Possession - 58%-42% |
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Post by northantsash on Aug 19, 2008 11:09:11 GMT
just read it on skysports and its a very balanced view, he makes a lot of sense with what he says and 4-51 or 3-5-2 is needed away from home, we were far too open down the wings on saturday at bolton.
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