Serpico, quick, look at this!

[Mr_DaftBurger]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7532714.stm

Sucking up to the Saudis again!

[serpico]

We can't go upsetting the saudis, thats where our "Spreading democracy" policy comes to a sudden halt, they can have the worst human rights record on the planet, they can rule their country with an iron fist, they can get away with dodgy arms deals etc.

[OldStokie]

But they keep us employed, Serps.

Always accentuate the positive.

OS.

[serpico]

Jul 30, 2008 22:25:17 GMT OldStokie said:

But they keep us employed, Serps.

Always accentuate the positive.

OS.

I know, and i personally don't think it's our job to go around telling other countries how to do things, i am merely pointing out the contradiction in our current foreign policy, in some countries it's ok for tyrants to run hideous police states, in fact we usually help install them and prop them up, but other countries we have to go in and topple them, like Saddam (former ally/CIA asset turned "next hitler"). It kind of makes a mockery of the whole "spreading democracy" mantra, which of course is a load of bullshit anyway, thats not the reason we went into Iraq.

[OldStokie]

We went into Iraq because Dubya told us to. We all have to do as we're told sometimes...especially when it keeps the food on our table, fuel in our cars and a safe roof over our heads.

OS.

[serpico]

Jul 30, 2008 23:28:51 GMT OldStokie said:

We went into Iraq because Dubya told us to. We all have to do as we're told sometimes...especially when it keeps the food on our table, fuel in our cars and a safe roof over our heads.

OS.

So you think if we didn't go into Iraq and if we didn't prop up the current saudi regime that the oil wouldn't get to market ? what are they going to do, drink it all ?.

The Iraq war helped keep us safe and a roof over our heads ? even though studies have shown that terrorism has increased 7 fold since 2003 ? one of the main reasons that Bin Laden was delighted when Bush and Blair decided we were going into Iraq, in fact our entire foreign policy post 9/11 has dragged the failing al qeada movement out of the gutter and revived it, Al Qeada was on it's last legs pre 9/11, those attacks were Bin ladens last throw of the dice in an attempt to suck the US into bloody and costly wars, which we have happily tagged along in, Bin Laden and co want desperately for the US to bomb Iran, will Dick Cheney once again come to Bin ladens aid again ?, and help his once againfailing movement ? the notion that the Iraq war has made us safer is ludicrous, i doubt we have bore the brunt of the blowback we have coming as a consequence yet, and if we attack Iran, in the words of the current US secretary of defense Robert Gates , “We’ll create generations of jihadists, and our grandchildren will be battling our enemies here in America.”

edit: speaking of fuel in your car, have you seen how much oil is these days ?, well go back and have a look at how much it cost pre Iraq war.


indeed.

[OldStokie]

Serps, you need to get into my head. The 'safer' bit was referring to the nuclear umbrella over our heads that has kept us safe for a very long time. We can deal with the rest of the shit conventionally, preferably in 'their' backyard rather than ours.

OS.

[serpico]

Jul 31, 2008 8:33:30 GMT OldStokie said:

Serps, you need to get into my head. The 'safer' bit was referring to the nuclear umbrella over our heads that has kept us safe for a very long time. We can deal with the rest of the shit conventionally, preferably in 'their' backyard rather than ours.

OS.

Nuclear weapons won't protect us from the blowback and the unintended consequences of our skewed foreign policy, and i as i noted, If we help the US or Israel bomb Iran then we will be fighting them in our back yard, because all of a sudden the small minority of muslims who have being trying to convince the majority that the west is at war with Islam will be able to say "ah we told you so", and we will create another generation of terrorists that our grandchildren will have to live with, there are 1.2 billion muslims on this planet that are non to happy with us at the minute, but the large majority still do not side with Bin laden, but if we bomb Iran that may well change.

[Deleted]

Is there no end to the shyte you spout?

You’re now official spokesmen for 1.2 billion muslims?

Oh dear.

[serpico]

Jul 31, 2008 10:41:21 GMT whydelilah said:

Is there no end to the shyte you spout?

You’re now official spokesmen for 1.2 billion muslims?

Oh dear.

Doesn't take a genius to find opinion polls. Do you ever reply without an ad hominem attack ?

[Deleted]

It takes a genius to speak on behalf of billions of people.

How do you not crack up as you’re typing that kind of stuff?

[serpico]

Jul 31, 2008 10:51:32 GMT whydelilah said:

It takes a genius to speak on behalf of billions of people.

How do you not crack up as you’re typing that kind of stuff?

I'm not speaking on behalf of them, muslims are upset about US/UK foreign policy ?, thats a fact, oh yeh i forgot you're not interested in facts, the last thread about Iran's non existent nuclear weapons program proved that.

[Deleted]

I am concerned with facts, that’s why I pointed out the fact that you can not speak on behalf of 1.2 billion people.

[serpico]

Jul 31, 2008 11:02:41 GMT whydelilah said:

I am concerned with facts, that’s why I pointed out the fact that you can not speak on behalf of 1.2 billion people.

good lord, I'm not speaking on behalf of them, thats why i linked you to a world opinion poll study.

[Deleted]

"there are 1.2 billion muslims on this planet that are non to happy with us at the minute"

I rest my case your honour.

[serpico]

Jul 31, 2008 11:13:40 GMT whydelilah said:

"there are 1.2 billion muslims on this planet that are non to happy with us at the minute"

I rest my case your honour.

Yes, and i came to that conclusion from reading opinion poll study results, hence the reason i said it, the results are conclusive, overwhelmingly large majorities of the muslim population are not happy with US, and by implication the UK's, foreign policy.

[Deleted]

I’m glad we cleared that one up.

Do you have a comment to make on behalf of the billions of Christians in this world?

You obviously know how all the Muslims in the world will react to a hypothetical event. How would the Christians react to the same (hypothetical) event?

[serpico]

Jul 31, 2008 11:30:33 GMT whydelilah said:

I’m glad we cleared that one up.

Do you have a comment to make on behalf of the billions of Christians in this world?

You obviously know how all the Muslims in the world will react to a hypothetical event. How would the Christians react to the same (hypothetical) event?

I have not read the relevant studies so i cannot comment although if the Iraq war is anything to go by then the reaction will probably be split, some for it some against it.

Some will be very much in favor of a nuclear annihilation of Iran-

[serpico]

Jul 31, 2008 11:30:33 GMT whydelilah said:

I’m glad we cleared that one up.

Do you have a comment to make on behalf of the billions of Christians in this world?

You obviously know how all the Muslims in the world will react to a hypothetical event. How would the Christians react to the same (hypothetical) event?

I have not read the relevant studies so i cannot comment although if the Iraq war is anything to go by then the reaction will probably be split, some for it some against it.

Some will be very much in favor of a nuclear annihilation of Iran, although it has to be said, this particular group is not representative of christians as a whole.

[bostedclog]

Jul 31, 2008 11:30:33 GMT whydelilah said:

I’m glad we cleared that one up.

Do you have a comment to make on behalf of the billions of Christians in this world?

You obviously know how all the Muslims in the world will react to a hypothetical event. How would the Christians react to the same (hypothetical) event?

Whydelilah most educated people realise what is going on in this pathetic so called war on terror and are i believe a little sympathetic towards the inocent muslim families of the world whos lives have been totally destroyed in the name of fredom.Which amasses to millions of people.
The rest believe the racist shite spouted by the government the british press including Sun,Mail Star e.t.c

[Deleted]

I must be uneducated then.

Hey ho, I’ll get over it I’m sure.

[serpico]

Jul 31, 2008 15:36:17 GMT @bostedclog said:

Jul 31, 2008 11:30:33 GMT whydelilah said:

I’m glad we cleared that one up.

Do you have a comment to make on behalf of the billions of Christians in this world?

You obviously know how all the Muslims in the world will react to a hypothetical event. How would the Christians react to the same (hypothetical) event?

Whydelilah most educated people realise what is going on in this pathetic so called war on terror and are i believe a little sympathetic towards the inocent muslim families of the world whos lives have been totally destroyed in the name of fredom.Which amasses to millions of people.
The rest believe the racist shite spouted by the government the british press including Sun,Mail Star e.t.c

And the so called "war on terror" is completely counter productive, because incidents like this one, which happen withalarming regularity, only breed terrorists rather than eradicate them, our governments foreign policy puts us at risk, and anyone who supports it is also putting the rest of us at risk, and for what ? to help Israel maintain hegemony in the region and so western oil companies can go in ? these wars have fuck all to do with combatting terrorism, how can they when the end result is more terror ? just like the "war on drugs" ends up with more drugs on the streets and more drug users.

Credit to oldstokie though, at least he is honest, he thinks it's necessary for us to maintain these policies because he thinks he benefits from them and to hell with the long term consequences, he's wrong but at least he is honest and doesn't even pretend we're "fighting terror and spreading democracy", reminds me of that old Lloyd George quote in reference to the Iraqi's "We insist on reserving the right to bomb niggers."

ask yourself, have you benefitted from the war in Iraq ? is oil cheaper now ? are we safer now we have toppled Saddam ?, who had no weapons and had never attacked us, never threatened to attack us, nor had the means to attacks us, he had no links with the 9/11 attacks or links to the al qeada networks, in fact quite the opposite, he was enemies with Bin laden.

[OldStokie]

Credit to oldstokie though, at least he is honest, he thinks it's necessary for us to maintain these policies because he thinks he benefits from them and to hell with the long term consequences,

I am right. That's why I'm honest. Trust me, Serps, if you fed some of the buggers a goat a day topped with vanilla essence they would still want to kill you because you're an Infidel. Until you convert to Islam, you're a target. It's not too difficult. Perhaps I should add that not all Muslims think that way, just about as many as some of the Christians who are just as crackers. You make a good debater if you're playing Devil's Advocate. If you really believe ALL you write, your lack of balance lets you down. I prefer to think of you as playing DA, that's why I enjoy the occasional tête á tête.

OS.

[Deleted]

How’do OS me old mucker?

[OldStokie]

I'm fine, T. I'm keeping a beady eye on you.

I gotta go now...busy, busy, busy.

M.

[Deleted]

Cheers Dad ;D

I'm liking this quote: -

Credit to oldstokie though, at least he is honest, he thinks it's necessary for us to maintain these policies because he thinks he benefits from them and to hell with the long term consequences, he's wrong but at least he is honest

You're honest, you're just bloody wrong M. Come on, serps knows everything. I expect more from you squire

[serpico]

Aug 1, 2008 8:57:08 GMT OldStokie said:

Credit to oldstokie though, at least he is honest, he thinks it's necessary for us to maintain these policies because he thinks he benefits from them and to hell with the long term consequences,

I am right. That's why I'm honest. Trust me, Serps, if you fed some of the buggers a goat a day topped with vanilla essence they would still want to kill you because you're an Infidel. Until you convert to Islam, you're a target. It's not too difficult. Perhaps I should add that not all Muslims think that way, just about as many as some of the Christians who are just as crackers. You make a good debater if you're playing Devil's Advocate. If you really believe ALL you write, your lack of balance lets you down. I prefer to think of you as playing DA, that's why I enjoy the occasional tête á tête.

OS.

Well first of all I'm not defending anyone, what Bin Laden and his ilk do is disgusting and the sooner we track him down and slit his throat from ear to ear the better, unfortunately our government gave up on him many years ago and along with the US decided to attack a country that had never attacked us, never threatened to attack us nor had the capability to attack us.

Just because i realise that they attack us not to covert us to Islam or because they "hate our freedoms" but because we are occupying their lands doesn't mean i am defending them, if you read Bin ladens statements it's very clear why they want to attacks us, and thats not just me saying that,thats the head of the CIA's Bin Laden unit's conclusion after, after living eating and breathing Bin Laden for years. Many studies have also shown that they do not attack out of a hatred of our freedoms etc, but because we occupy their lands, thats not to difficult to understand is it ? how would you react if China invaded England and began building military bases the size of the vatican, whilst bombing your house and wiping half of your family out ? or bombing your daughters wedding ? would that make you angry ? how about if it was one of your grandchildren ?. How would you feel if actions taken by Iraq had wiped out 500 THOUSAND British children under the age of 5 ?, you still think they bomb us because they're motiveless evildoers ? then how come when Ayatollah Koemani tried to rally people to attack "the great satan" because of it's decedent ways etc his mission failed miserably ? and how come Bin Laden is so successful ?.

[serpico]

I told you Al Qeada is a failing movement again, just as it was prior to the ridiculous response to 9/11 which revived it from the dead. I wonder if Bin Laden will be successful again in baiting Bush into another war to once again help revive it ?