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Post by musik on May 9, 2024 8:50:00 GMT
Listening to the Left Party congress in Jönköping broadcasted on TV here.
So far they've only discussed the definition of working class.
Working class, what is that?
They say working class is everyone who works and is not having any power over their work at their work place. It doesn't matter what union you belong to and if you are high paid or have a university degree.
This must mean if you do not own the company you are working class?
🤔
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Post by marwood on May 9, 2024 9:01:43 GMT
If you have dinner at 12:00 and tea is on the table at 5pm you are working class
If you eat lunch at 12.15 and have dinner at 7pm you are middle class
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Post by musik on May 9, 2024 9:16:27 GMT
If you have dinner at 12:00 and tea is on the table at 5pm you are working class If you eat lunch at 12.15 and have dinner at 7pm you are middle class And if you walk around all day with a trolley looking inside of bins and eat when you get lucky like a magpie, what do you belong to then? |
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Post by musik on May 9, 2024 9:19:47 GMT
After three hours they are still on the definition of working class, on tv. With that speed I get why only 8 % vote on them.
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Post by cvillestokie on May 9, 2024 9:23:02 GMT
Most countries set up working, middle and upper class based on wage and more importantly, assets. Britain lives in the past and pretends that there’s more to it.
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Post by Robo10 on May 9, 2024 9:27:41 GMT
Lol its funny
I live in a nice house with the Mrs and kids so are doing alright so people would probably call us 'middle class'
I'm from a council estate where my dad was a miner and mum worked part time in a factory as well as kids and the house so we were deffo bought up 'working class' (aka poor!)
Mindset wise I still consider myself working class, left of centre socialist with consideration to support those who need, but no issues people making money as long as they put a bit back.
I'm not sure the traditional outlook of classes is valid anymore if I am honest - lots of traditionally poor/working class kids have done alright for themselves since the capitalist boom of the 80s, live in nice houses and have pleasant lives - whether that makes them 'middle class' is a different question. I'm still very much a Bacon Butty type than a Quinoa and Avacado on toast one!
Things like minimum wages etc have also had impacts that just werent around back then
Would probs argue that 50s/60s definitions of 'class' are outdated, society has tended to move more towards political and social outlook rather than class.
What isnt in doubt is that the original 'upper' classes continue to rule and make all of the money, the rest of us are just in a fight to the finish for the scraps, even if for many people thats still a comfortable lifestyle.
They (the elite) like to keep us in our boxes.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 9, 2024 9:29:36 GMT
If you have dinner at 12:00 and tea is on the table at 5pm you are working class If you eat lunch at 12.15 and have dinner at 7pm you are middle class Lunch at 12.15! 1.30 more like. Else you are hungry by the time supper is ready at 7.30. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 9, 2024 9:34:00 GMT
If you have dinner at 12:00 and tea is on the table at 5pm you are working class If you eat lunch at 12.15 and have dinner at 7pm you are middle class Lunch at 12.15! 1.30 more like. Else you are hungry by the time supper is ready at 7.30. I eat by the middle class times stated above, yet I’m a rate scrubber |
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Post by Robo10 on May 9, 2024 9:37:55 GMT
For the record, Dinner is 12-1pm. Tea is 4-6pm.
Anything else is quite franky, wrong.
Its called CHRISTMAS DINNER for a reason, eaten early afternoon.
DINNER LADIES at school.
Luncheon la de das and Southerners be away with you.
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Post by salopstick on May 9, 2024 9:42:16 GMT
Lol its funny I live in a nice house with the Mrs and kids so are doing alright so people would probably call us 'middle class' I'm from a council estate where my dad was a miner and mum worked part time in a factory as well as kids and the house so we were deffo bought up 'working class' (aka poor!) Mindset wise I still consider myself working class, left of centre socialist with consideration to support those who need, but no issues people making money as long as they put a bit back. Pretty much the same as me |
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Post by musik on May 9, 2024 9:59:08 GMT
Most countries set up working, middle and upper class based on wage and more importantly, assets. Britain lives in the past and pretends that there’s more to it. In Sweden noone except the ones who vote for the Left Party on tv (called VPK before (The Left Party Communists)), would say there are any classes at all in our society. And they separate the working class from the owners only, two classes. Middle class and upper class are unknown terms here. That's interesting. And here it has nothing to do with income. And by assets you mean materialistic assets? Or do immaterialistic rights count? |
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Post by Robo10 on May 9, 2024 10:04:00 GMT
Most countries set up working, middle and upper class based on wage and more importantly, assets. Britain lives in the past and pretends that there’s more to it. In Sweden noone except the ones who vote for the Left Party on tv (called VPK before (The Left Party Communists)), would say there any classes at all in our society. That's interesting. And here it has nothing to do with income. And by assets you mean materialistic assets? Would imagine Cville means the size of your house, the type of car, your disposable income after bills. If you live in social housing with a crappy old car and barely have money left over for nice things, you are at the lower/working class end of the scale in their definition If you live in a big detached house, have a top of the range Merc/Audi or more, buy nice things whenever you like then you are at the top end of middle class (nobody who works will be upper lol) Most folk probably sit in the middle somewhere on a sliding scale Classes are how posh people view everybody 'beneath' them lol, I'm guessing in the old days how much value you were to them.... |
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Post by musik on May 9, 2024 10:19:06 GMT
In Sweden noone except the ones who vote for the Left Party on tv (called VPK before (The Left Party Communists)), would say there any classes at all in our society. That's interesting. And here it has nothing to do with income. And by assets you mean materialistic assets? Would imagine Cville means the size of your house, the type of car, your disposable income after bills. If you live in social housing with a crappy old car and barely have money left over for nice things, you are at the lower/working class end of the scale in their definition If you live in a big detached house, have a top of the range Merc/Audi or more, buy nice things whenever you like then you are at the top end of middle class (nobody who works will be upper lol) Most folk probably sit in the middle somewhere on a sliding scale Classes are how posh people view everybody 'beneath' them lol, I'm guessing in the old days how much value you were to them.... Ok. Of course someone looking from the outside could say we have classes here as well then, the whole scale. But as I said it's just the communists who talk of classes here. And the people organised the first of May (Working class day) marching along the streets become fewer and fewer. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 9, 2024 10:34:22 GMT
Lol its funny I live in a nice house with the Mrs and kids so are doing alright so people would probably call us 'middle class' I'm from a council estate where my dad was a miner and mum worked part time in a factory as well as kids and the house so we were deffo bought up 'working class' (aka poor!) Mindset wise I still consider myself working class, left of centre socialist with consideration to support those who need, but no issues people making money as long as they put a bit back. I'm not sure the traditional outlook of classes is valid anymore if I am honest - lots of traditionally poor/working class kids have done alright for themselves since the capitalist boom of the 80s, live in nice houses and have pleasant lives - whether that makes them 'middle class' is a different question. I'm still very much a Bacon Butty type than a Quinoa and Avacado on toast one! Things like minimum wages etc have also had impacts that just werent around back then Would probs argue that 50s/60s definitions of 'class' are outdated, society has tended to move more towards political and social outlook rather than class. What isnt in doubt is that the original 'upper' classes continue to rule and make all of the money, the rest of us are just in a fight to the finish for the scraps, even if for many people thats still a comfortable lifestyle. They (the elite) like to keep us in our boxes. My dad was a miner, my mum worked part time in a factory and I was brought up on a council estate so like you pretty standard definition of working class. However I went to university got a relatively well paid job and if pigeon holed would now be described as middle class. My politics is pretty much left of centre/progressive/liberal although I would not describe myself as socialist. However I don't feel like I belong to the middle class and I can't claim to be working class either. I'm not sure the old definitions work anymore but class still plays a massive role in the way British society works and the upper/ruling classes still have a disproportionate slice of wealth and power - we certainly are no where near being a meritocracy. Traditionally the upper classes used the middle classes to help keep the working class in their place and that still goes on today. It works off the tendency for people to accept their place in a hierarchy providing they have someone to look down on - the old comedy sketch still holds true. The massive expansion of access to higher education has given working class people a way out of a low income life and everything that goes with it but it does change you and you do tend to adopt social attitudes that distance you from those that didn't go that route. I think that is at the root of the current bizarre state of British politics - neither Labour nor the Tories really represent socially conservative working class voters and while I can't stand their politics I actually think Reform UK is a good thing in terms of representing that voice. If anything I'm jealous because I can't find one. |
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Post by gawa on May 9, 2024 10:36:39 GMT
I don't think the old class system really applies anymore. There was a survey done on social classes in the uk 13 years ago which produced these classes - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Class_SurveyI think since then things have further changed and that isn't necessarily relevant any more either but still closer to our current system then working/middle/upper class. The working class is no longer bottom of the pile and now replaced with the precariat class defined as below: "The Precariat class was envisaged as "the most deprived British class of all with low levels of economic, cultural and social capital." This was contrasted with "the Technical Middle Class" in Great Britain in that instead of having disposable income but no interests, people of the new Precariat Class have all sorts of potential activities they like to engage in but cannot do any of them because they have no money, insecure lives, and are usually trapped in old industrial parts of the country." I think there's a stark contrast between old working class and the different classes nowadays. Old working class had more potential for owning assets and have reaped the benefits of inflation of those assets. Whereas the newer precariat classes don't have those same opportunities and tend to live pay cheque to pay cheque with very little assets to their names. Plus with the growing privatisation of health it adds further insecurity. All a by product of neoliberalism policies which have seen the growth of inequality. |
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Post by noustie on May 9, 2024 10:36:51 GMT
Smart price dangerously thin bog roll - unemployed
Double quilted supermarket toilet roll - working class
Double quilted branded toilet roll with coconut oil scenting - lower middle class
Triple quilted branded eucalyptus infused bathroom tissue - middle class
Double quilted Waitrose toilet tissue traceable back to the South American tribesman chopping and replanting trees earning a dollar a day on plantation - upper middle class
Someone wipes it for you - upper class
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Post by salopstick on May 9, 2024 10:43:16 GMT
Lol its funny I live in a nice house with the Mrs and kids so are doing alright so people would probably call us 'middle class' I'm from a council estate where my dad was a miner and mum worked part time in a factory as well as kids and the house so we were deffo bought up 'working class' (aka poor!) Mindset wise I still consider myself working class, left of centre socialist with consideration to support those who need, but no issues people making money as long as they put a bit back. I'm not sure the traditional outlook of classes is valid anymore if I am honest - lots of traditionally poor/working class kids have done alright for themselves since the capitalist boom of the 80s, live in nice houses and have pleasant lives - whether that makes them 'middle class' is a different question. I'm still very much a Bacon Butty type than a Quinoa and Avacado on toast one! Things like minimum wages etc have also had impacts that just werent around back then Would probs argue that 50s/60s definitions of 'class' are outdated, society has tended to move more towards political and social outlook rather than class. What isnt in doubt is that the original 'upper' classes continue to rule and make all of the money, the rest of us are just in a fight to the finish for the scraps, even if for many people thats still a comfortable lifestyle. They (the elite) like to keep us in our boxes. My dad was a miner, my mum worked part time in a factory and I was brought up on a council estate so like you pretty standard definition of working class. However I went to university got a relatively well paid job and if pigeon holed would now be described as middle class. My politics is pretty much left of centre/progressive/liberal although I would not describe myself as socialist. However I don't feel like I belong to the middle class and I can't claim to be working class either. I'm not sure the old definitions work anymore but class still plays a massive role in the way British society works and the upper/ruling classes still have a disproportionate slice of wealth and power - we certainly are no where near being a meritocracy. Traditionally the upper classes used the middle classes to help keep the working class in their place and that still goes on today. It works off the tendency for people to accept their place in a hierarchy providing they have someone to look down on - the old comedy sketch still holds true. The massive expansion of access to higher education has given working class people a way out of a low income life and everything that goes with it but it does change you and you do tend to adopt social attitudes that distance you from those that didn't go that route. I think that is at the root of the current bizarre state of British politics - neither Labour nor the Tories really represent socially conservative working class voters and while I can't stand their politics I actually think Reform UK is a good thing in terms of representing that voice. If anything I'm jealous because I can't find one. people generally do better or the same of how they were brought up if you were brought up old style working class regardless of where you sit now you will probably have decent morals and a willingness to work |
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Post by musik on May 9, 2024 10:50:57 GMT
Smart price dangerously thin bog roll - unemployed Double quilted supermarket toilet roll - working class Double quilted branded toilet roll with coconut oil scenting - lower middle class Triple quilted branded eucalyptus infused bathroom tissue - middle class Double quilted Waitrose toilet tissue traceable back to the South American tribesman chopping and replanting trees earning a dollar a day on plantation - upper middle class Someone wipes it for you - upper class When you have juicy diarrhea, it will run on your fingers and in your hand if you use that soft useless toilet paper in several layers. It just crumbles. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 9, 2024 10:54:06 GMT
My dad was a miner, my mum worked part time in a factory and I was brought up on a council estate so like you pretty standard definition of working class. However I went to university got a relatively well paid job and if pigeon holed would now be described as middle class. My politics is pretty much left of centre/progressive/liberal although I would not describe myself as socialist. However I don't feel like I belong to the middle class and I can't claim to be working class either. I'm not sure the old definitions work anymore but class still plays a massive role in the way British society works and the upper/ruling classes still have a disproportionate slice of wealth and power - we certainly are no where near being a meritocracy. Traditionally the upper classes used the middle classes to help keep the working class in their place and that still goes on today. It works off the tendency for people to accept their place in a hierarchy providing they have someone to look down on - the old comedy sketch still holds true. The massive expansion of access to higher education has given working class people a way out of a low income life and everything that goes with it but it does change you and you do tend to adopt social attitudes that distance you from those that didn't go that route. I think that is at the root of the current bizarre state of British politics - neither Labour nor the Tories really represent socially conservative working class voters and while I can't stand their politics I actually think Reform UK is a good thing in terms of representing that voice. If anything I'm jealous because I can't find one. people generally do better or the same of how they were brought up if you were brought up old style working class regardless of where you sit now you will probably have decent morals and a willingness to work The old style working class does not exist on that scale anymore and in terms of the share of the nations wealth those at the bottom of the pile are now worse off. For my generation things did get better but the current generation (through no lack of morals or willingness to work) are looking at a worse standard of living than their parents. Thatchers trickle down economics has been exposed as the lie it always was - unfettered capitalism makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. Something has to give. |
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Post by noustie on May 9, 2024 11:07:41 GMT
Smart price dangerously thin bog roll - unemployed Double quilted supermarket toilet roll - working class Double quilted branded toilet roll with coconut oil scenting - lower middle class Triple quilted branded eucalyptus infused bathroom tissue - middle class Double quilted Waitrose toilet tissue traceable back to the South American tribesman chopping and replanting trees earning a dollar a day on plantation - upper middle class Someone wipes it for you - upper class When you have juicy diarrhea, it will run on your fingers and in your hand if you use that soft useless toilet paper in several layers. It just crumbles. I've a buxom eastern European trained and equipped to deal with various scenarios. |
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Post by cvillestokie on May 9, 2024 11:07:46 GMT
Most countries set up working, middle and upper class based on wage and more importantly, assets. Britain lives in the past and pretends that there’s more to it. In Sweden noone except the ones who vote for the Left Party on tv (called VPK before (The Left Party Communists)), would say there are any classes at all in our society. And they separate the working class from the owners only, two classes. Middle class and upper class are unknown terms here. That's interesting. And here it has nothing to do with income. And by assets you mean materialistic assets? Or do immaterialistic rights count? Assets - stocks, businesses, property. Ie something that is continuously making you money. |
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Post by cvillestokie on May 9, 2024 11:13:16 GMT
In Sweden noone except the ones who vote for the Left Party on tv (called VPK before (The Left Party Communists)), would say there any classes at all in our society. That's interesting. And here it has nothing to do with income. And by assets you mean materialistic assets? Would imagine Cville means the size of your house, the type of car, your disposable income after bills. If you live in social housing with a crappy old car and barely have money left over for nice things, you are at the lower/working class end of the scale in their definition If you live in a big detached house, have a top of the range Merc/Audi or more, buy nice things whenever you like then you are at the top end of middle class (nobody who works will be upper lol) Most folk probably sit in the middle somewhere on a sliding scale Classes are how posh people view everybody 'beneath' them lol, I'm guessing in the old days how much value you were to them.... I prescribe to the notion that a house is a liability, not an asset. It’s a necessary liability, but a liability nonetheless. A car is definitely a liability - cars almost never make you money unless it’s your business to sell them. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 9, 2024 11:25:57 GMT
In Sweden noone except the ones who vote for the Left Party on tv (called VPK before (The Left Party Communists)), would say there any classes at all in our society. That's interesting. And here it has nothing to do with income. And by assets you mean materialistic assets? Would imagine Cville means the size of your house, the type of car, your disposable income after bills. If you live in social housing with a crappy old car and barely have money left over for nice things, you are at the lower/working class end of the scale in their definition If you live in a big detached house, have a top of the range Merc/Audi or more, buy nice things whenever you like then you are at the top end of middle class (nobody who works will be upper lol) Most folk probably sit in the middle somewhere on a sliding scale Classes are how posh people view everybody 'beneath' them lol, I'm guessing in the old days how much value you were to them.... Take your points, although I've known many a person with a big house and fancy cars and it's all been heavily mortgaged/financed and not sustainable....... |
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Post by Eggybread on May 9, 2024 11:27:02 GMT
For the record, Dinner is 12-1pm. Tea is 4-6pm. Anything else is quite franky, wrong. Its called CHRISTMAS DINNER for a reason, eaten early afternoon. DINNER LADIES at school. Luncheon la de das and Southerners be away with you. Why do us Brits eat so early compared with practically every other country? |
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Post by salopstick on May 9, 2024 11:30:09 GMT
For the record, Dinner is 12-1pm. Tea is 4-6pm. Anything else is quite franky, wrong. Its called CHRISTMAS DINNER for a reason, eaten early afternoon. DINNER LADIES at school. Luncheon la de das and Southerners be away with you. Why do us Brits eat so early compared with practically every other country? i imagine its linked to the industrial revolution and working hours which have pretty much remained the same |
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Post by desman2 on May 9, 2024 11:42:02 GMT
It's a bit like lawyers, accountants, doctors etc are given the title " professional " while an engineer, nurse, paramedic etc are not.
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Post by iancransonsknees on May 9, 2024 11:49:01 GMT
Lol its funny I live in a nice house with the Mrs and kids so are doing alright so people would probably call us 'middle class' I'm from a council estate where my dad was a miner and mum worked part time in a factory as well as kids and the house so we were deffo bought up 'working class' (aka poor!) Mindset wise I still consider myself working class, left of centre socialist with consideration to support those who need, but no issues people making money as long as they put a bit back. I'm not sure the traditional outlook of classes is valid anymore if I am honest - lots of traditionally poor/working class kids have done alright for themselves since the capitalist boom of the 80s, live in nice houses and have pleasant lives - whether that makes them 'middle class' is a different question. I'm still very much a Bacon Butty type than a Quinoa and Avacado on toast one! Things like minimum wages etc have also had impacts that just werent around back then Would probs argue that 50s/60s definitions of 'class' are outdated, society has tended to move more towards political and social outlook rather than class. What isnt in doubt is that the original 'upper' classes continue to rule and make all of the money, the rest of us are just in a fight to the finish for the scraps, even if for many people thats still a comfortable lifestyle. They (the elite) like to keep us in our boxes. This is pretty relevant to that last paragraph. |
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Post by fullmetaljacket on May 9, 2024 12:06:27 GMT
If you don't abide by the five second rule you're upper class
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Post by musik on May 9, 2024 14:24:40 GMT
In Sweden noone except the ones who vote for the Left Party on tv (called VPK before (The Left Party Communists)), would say there are any classes at all in our society. And they separate the working class from the owners only, two classes. Middle class and upper class are unknown terms here. That's interesting. And here it has nothing to do with income. And by assets you mean materialistic assets? Or do immaterialistic rights count? Assets - stocks, businesses, property. Ie something that is continuously making you money. In that case, immaterial rights should count. |
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Post by cvillestokie on May 9, 2024 14:52:23 GMT
Assets - stocks, businesses, property. Ie something that is continuously making you money. In that case, immaterial rights should count. They absolutely would, yes. |
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