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Post by felonious on Apr 3, 2024 19:11:32 GMT
An absolute blight on school life and unfortunately wider society. Finnish school shooting motivated by bullying - police They said the suspect told them he had been bullied after he was detained in the Siltamaki area of northern Helsinki, almost 4km (2.5 miles) from the scene of the shooting. Their initial investigation supported that conclusion, they added. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68720973
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Bullying
Apr 3, 2024 22:56:04 GMT
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Post by flea79 on Apr 3, 2024 22:56:04 GMT
It’s a terrible damning indictment on the schools how they let it carry on yet claim it doesn’t happen as they have a policy on it that is robust and lengthy
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Post by wannabee on Apr 3, 2024 23:25:41 GMT
An absolute blight on school life and unfortunately wider society. Finnish school shooting motivated by bullying - police They said the suspect told them he had been bullied after he was detained in the Siltamaki area of northern Helsinki, almost 4km (2.5 miles) from the scene of the shooting. Their initial investigation supported that conclusion, they added. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68720973I have no particular insight into the Finnish shooting but Bullying as a motive seems to be an easy Victim Blaming. Could Mental Health issues and easy access to guns in Finland be not equally a cause?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Apr 4, 2024 6:37:10 GMT
It’s a terrible damning indictment on the schools how they let it carry on yet claim it doesn’t happen as they have a policy on it that is robust and lengthy From a personal opinion I have to say society and schools (where it all starts) don't deal with bullies strongly enough though I wouldn’t blame the schools as they often have to stay within guidelines and give the bully the opportunity to change and follow a steps process. It’s a vicious circle as by permanently excluding bullies they are taking them out of education which could put them on a road to offending / criminality because they’ll have nothing to do all day. One of the biggest issues is that they aren’t able to tell the victims parents what actions they’ve taken due to parents potentially sharing information with each other so it can look like they’ve done nothing. One of the biggest issues is the lack of real punishment and power both in school and in society on the whole due to the country standing still for way to long rather than looking for real change and new ways to curb bullying at school / criminality. With the removal of corporal punishment (not saying i’m against it) there’s no real fear of repercussions anymore which isn’t a good thing when someone’s very young. Throw into that parents who would rather back their child’s bad behaviour than support the School.
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Post by knype on Apr 4, 2024 6:46:19 GMT
An absolute blight on school life and unfortunately wider society. Finnish school shooting motivated by bullying - police They said the suspect told them he had been bullied after he was detained in the Siltamaki area of northern Helsinki, almost 4km (2.5 miles) from the scene of the shooting. Their initial investigation supported that conclusion, they added. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68720973I have no particular insight into the Finnish shooting but Bullying as a motive seems to be an easy Victim Blaming. Could Mental Health issues and easy access to guns in Finland be not equally a cause? Are you saying that the lad that shot the others maybe wasn't being bullied?
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Post by felonious on Apr 4, 2024 6:58:05 GMT
It’s a terrible damning indictment on the schools how they let it carry on yet claim it doesn’t happen as they have a policy on it that is robust and lengthy I think that nicely sums up every parents dilemma. If you happen to be sitting in front of a teacher reading from a sheet, hands tied behind their back, in denial, you know at that point that little is going to be done.......
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Post by felonious on Apr 4, 2024 7:04:01 GMT
I have no particular insight into the Finnish shooting but Bullying as a motive seems to be an easy Victim Blaming. Could Mental Health issues and easy access to guns in Finland be not equally a cause? Are you saying that the lad that shot the others maybe wasn't being bullied? On this occasion he's saying he doesn't know anything about this particular case however the Finnish police who have interviewed the child and no doubt teachers, parents, etc are saying it's a case of bullying at school. No one should be surprised having been through the school system and watched their children go through the school system. If only it stopped at the school gates and didn't continue into real life.....social media
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Post by felonious on Apr 4, 2024 7:05:12 GMT
An absolute blight on school life and unfortunately wider society. Finnish school shooting motivated by bullying - police They said the suspect told them he had been bullied after he was detained in the Siltamaki area of northern Helsinki, almost 4km (2.5 miles) from the scene of the shooting. Their initial investigation supported that conclusion, they added. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68720973I have no particular insight into the Finnish shooting but Bullying as a motive seems to be an easy Victim Blaming. Could Mental Health issues and easy access to guns in Finland be not equally a cause? Could mental health issues be caused by bullying do you think
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Bullying
Apr 4, 2024 7:20:31 GMT
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Post by noustie on Apr 4, 2024 7:20:31 GMT
It’s a terrible damning indictment on the schools how they let it carry on yet claim it doesn’t happen as they have a policy on it that is robust and lengthy I think that nicely sums up every parents dilemma. If you happen to be sitting in front of a teacher reading from a sheet, hands tied behind their back, in denial, you know at that point that little is going to be done....... I got that bollocks too when asked about a few of the lads, one in particular, who think it’s a pisser to push, pull, kick etc the quieter girls in the class. Unfortunately one of these girls this one shit wouldn’t leave alone was my wee lass’s best mate so she proceeded to smack fuck out of him. The lads are ‘punished’ with a walk with the Head down to the co-op where they get crisps FFS! Anyway the answer I got was that it was boys being boys, hormones (8-9!) and they’d keep an eye at playtime. I responded for full transparency my daughter has my authority to finish anything they start when hurting any girl in her class and her face totally changed. The two main wee bastards regularly are kept in at lunch and obviously didn’t fancy explaining to their parents why they’d been smacked despite being warned it was coming. Problem is mine shouldn’t need to be playground vigilante against these wee fuckers and biology will take over so secondary school is a whole different ball game.
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Post by Orbs on Apr 4, 2024 7:45:12 GMT
The biggest question for me isn’t about bullying, schools, teachers or mental health but how has a 12 year old got hold of a gun?
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Post by phileetin on Apr 4, 2024 8:36:22 GMT
bullying has alaays been around (tom browns schooldays ? )
the problem with bullying nowadays is it no longer stops at 3.45pm when the school bell rings.
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Post by salopstick on Apr 4, 2024 8:38:08 GMT
It’s a terrible damning indictment on the schools how they let it carry on yet claim it doesn’t happen as they have a policy on it that is robust and lengthy From a personal opinion I have to say society and schools (where it all starts) don't deal with bullies strongly enough though I wouldn’t blame the schools as they often have to stay within guidelines and give the bully the opportunity to change and follow a steps process. It’s a vicious circle as by permanently excluding bullies they are taking them out of education which could put them on a road to offending / criminality because they’ll have nothing to do all day. One of the biggest issues is that they aren’t able to tell the victims parents what actions they’ve taken due to parents potentially sharing information with each other so it can look like they’ve done nothing. One of the biggest issues is the lack of real punishment and power both in school and in society on the whole due to the country standing still for way to long rather than looking for real change and new ways to curb bullying at school / criminality. With the removal of corporal punishment (not saying i’m against it) there’s no real fear of repercussions anymore which isn’t a good thing when someone’s very young. Throw into that parents who would rather back their child’s bad behaviour than support the School. had an issue with one of my kids boys are great, have a fight best mates 5 mins later girls are fucking vile, the shit they cause long after a slight disagreement
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Bullying
Apr 4, 2024 9:18:42 GMT
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Post by gawa on Apr 4, 2024 9:18:42 GMT
Thought this thread was going to be about Foster
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Post by wannabee on Apr 4, 2024 9:33:53 GMT
I have no particular insight into the Finnish shooting but Bullying as a motive seems to be an easy Victim Blaming. Could Mental Health issues and easy access to guns in Finland be not equally a cause? Could mental health issues be caused by bullying do you think I think that is a very likely scenario that Bullying exacerbated an existing condition Some individuals are more fragile than others I doubt the shooter was the only school kid in Finland that suffered from bullying or that it was more severe that it provoked such an extreme reaction. I have no doubt in the shooter's mind that Bullying was the trigger, it just seems too simplistic to me as it's not a routine occurrence in Finland, the last time something similar happed was apparently 2007/8
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Bullying
Apr 4, 2024 10:08:06 GMT
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 4, 2024 10:08:06 GMT
It’s a terrible damning indictment on the schools how they let it carry on yet claim it doesn’t happen as they have a policy on it that is robust and lengthy From a personal opinion I have to say society and schools (where it all starts) don't deal with bullies strongly enough though I wouldn’t blame the schools as they often have to stay within guidelines and give the bully the opportunity to change and follow a steps process. It’s a vicious circle as by permanently excluding bullies they are taking them out of education which could put them on a road to offending / criminality because they’ll have nothing to do all day. One of the biggest issues is that they aren’t able to tell the victims parents what actions they’ve taken due to parents potentially sharing information with each other so it can look like they’ve done nothing. One of the biggest issues is the lack of real punishment and power both in school and in society on the whole due to the country standing still for way to long rather than looking for real change and new ways to curb bullying at school / criminality. With the removal of corporal punishment (not saying i’m against it) there’s no real fear of repercussions anymore which isn’t a good thing when someone’s very young. Throw into that parents who would rather back their child’s bad behaviour than support the School. “With the removal of corporal punishment (not saying i’m against it) there’s no real fear of repercussions anymore” - did bullying never exist when kids were being spanked then? I’m not really against spanking my own child when they are older but I have no desire to see another adult do it.
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Post by felonious on Apr 4, 2024 18:13:01 GMT
Could mental health issues be caused by bullying do you think I think that is a very likely scenario that Bullying exacerbated an existing condition Some individuals are more fragile than others I doubt the shooter was the only school kid in Finland that suffered from bullying or that it was more severe that it provoked such an extreme reaction. I have no doubt in the shooter's mind that Bullying was the trigger, it just seems too simplistic to me as it's not a routine occurrence in Finland, the last time something similar happed was apparently 2007/8 Forget the lad in Finland for a moment do you think that mental issues are caused by bullying? Do you think it's only fragile individuals that get bullied?
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Post by felonious on Apr 4, 2024 18:14:50 GMT
From a personal opinion I have to say society and schools (where it all starts) don't deal with bullies strongly enough though I wouldn’t blame the schools as they often have to stay within guidelines and give the bully the opportunity to change and follow a steps process. It’s a vicious circle as by permanently excluding bullies they are taking them out of education which could put them on a road to offending / criminality because they’ll have nothing to do all day. One of the biggest issues is that they aren’t able to tell the victims parents what actions they’ve taken due to parents potentially sharing information with each other so it can look like they’ve done nothing. One of the biggest issues is the lack of real punishment and power both in school and in society on the whole due to the country standing still for way to long rather than looking for real change and new ways to curb bullying at school / criminality. With the removal of corporal punishment (not saying i’m against it) there’s no real fear of repercussions anymore which isn’t a good thing when someone’s very young. Throw into that parents who would rather back their child’s bad behaviour than support the School. had an issue with one of my kids boys are great, have a fight best mates 5 mins later girls are fucking vile, the shit they cause long after a slight disagreement Did the school deal with the issue to your satisfaction?
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Post by felonious on Apr 4, 2024 18:19:03 GMT
The biggest question for me isn’t about bullying, schools, teachers or mental health but how has a 12 year old got hold of a gun? The thread is about bullying though not particularly about the Finnish shooting which has it's own thread. My own experience is that schools/ teachers don't adequately deal with the issue when raised.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 4, 2024 18:25:30 GMT
It’s not something I remember being a massive problem when I grew up, and certainly something me or my mates got involved in.
I’m certainly not an “it was different in my day”, “PC gone mad” type but it does seem that an element of control has been lost and indeed power given more to children rather than teachers being able to bollock them.
Sad. I’m dreading ours going to high school this year. He’s developed some proper quirks lately and waiting on a diagnosis. I know his mum will be ripping kids’ heads off if he gets bullied.
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Post by felonious on Apr 4, 2024 18:27:28 GMT
I think that nicely sums up every parents dilemma. If you happen to be sitting in front of a teacher reading from a sheet, hands tied behind their back, in denial, you know at that point that little is going to be done....... I got that bollocks too when asked about a few of the lads, one in particular, who think it’s a pisser to push, pull, kick etc the quieter girls in the class. Unfortunately one of these girls this one shit wouldn’t leave alone was my wee lass’s best mate so she proceeded to smack fuck out of him. The lads are ‘punished’ with a walk with the Head down to the co-op where they get crisps FFS! Anyway the answer I got was that it was boys being boys, hormones (8-9!) and they’d keep an eye at playtime. I responded for full transparency my daughter has my authority to finish anything they start when hurting any girl in her class and her face totally changed. The two main wee bastards regularly are kept in at lunch and obviously didn’t fancy explaining to their parents why they’d been smacked despite being warned it was coming. Problem is mine shouldn’t need to be playground vigilante against these wee fuckers and biology will take over so secondary school is a whole different ball game. Wait until these wee boys are 14/15, 6 foot tall and 12/13 stone and decide that they're going to deny access to the school to your 7 and a half stone daughter and then experience the disinterest of the school deputy and form teacher. The form teacher who was very good at her job actually had the nerve to tell my daughter she was being "silly" Fortunately I knew a couple of the creep's mates and had a word explaining to them that I proposed to visit his parents at six every evening that my daughter didn't have unimpeded access to the school in the morning.
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Post by frasier37 on Apr 4, 2024 18:35:28 GMT
An absolute blight on school life and unfortunately wider society. Finnish school shooting motivated by bullying - police They said the suspect told them he had been bullied after he was detained in the Siltamaki area of northern Helsinki, almost 4km (2.5 miles) from the scene of the shooting. Their initial investigation supported that conclusion, they added. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68720973I have no particular insight into the Finnish shooting but Bullying as a motive seems to be an easy Victim Blaming. Could Mental Health issues and easy access to guns in Finland be not equally a cause? could the bullying cause the mental health issues
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Post by frasier37 on Apr 4, 2024 18:37:43 GMT
The biggest question for me isn’t about bullying, schools, teachers or mental health but how has a 12 year old got hold of a gun? The thread is about bullying though not particularly about the Finnish shooting which has it's own thread. My own experience is that schools/ teachers don't adequately deal with the issue when raised. schools like to dumb it down as it looks bad when it comes to inspection maybe
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Post by wannabee on Apr 4, 2024 19:01:38 GMT
I think that is a very likely scenario that Bullying exacerbated an existing condition Some individuals are more fragile than others I doubt the shooter was the only school kid in Finland that suffered from bullying or that it was more severe that it provoked such an extreme reaction. I have no doubt in the shooter's mind that Bullying was the trigger, it just seems too simplistic to me as it's not a routine occurrence in Finland, the last time something similar happed was apparently 2007/8 Forget the lad in Finland for a moment do you think that mental issues are caused by bullying? Do you think it's only fragile individuals that get bullied? No by no means it is not only fragile individuals who are the target of Bullies but some children are able to cope better with Bullying than others. In my opinion the self esteem and security a child feels will determine how well they cope of course the opposite is also true and if self-esteem and security is further undermined it can certainly lead to Mental Health Issues I understand the shooter in Finland was a recent entrant to the school and being different is one characteristic Bullies Target and attempt to get others to join the Bullying, some do to avoid becoming the subject of Bullying others with a stronger Character don't and may try to intervene. Jealousy of the Victim of Bullying is another obvious reason I think it is hard to generalise and when incidents are detected it's important to look at the dynamic between Bully and Bullied. I also believe if childhood Bullying if not resolved it will affect the future of both the Bully and the Bullied in how they interact in Society later in life. I have no personal experience of being Bullied but my oldest daughter in her Mid Teens did from one of her classmates. The solution was to move our Daughter to a different school, not a perfect solution but it removed the immediate anxiety As I say it's just a personal opinion
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Bullying
Apr 4, 2024 19:51:03 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Apr 4, 2024 19:51:03 GMT
had an issue with one of my kids boys are great, have a fight best mates 5 mins later girls are fucking vile, the shit they cause long after a slight disagreement Did the school deal with the issue to your satisfaction? Not at all mate. Fucking disgraceful
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Post by iancransonsknees on Apr 4, 2024 20:30:00 GMT
Thought this thread was going to be about Foster He's mr angry, he's not a bully though. He's equal in his disdain for the drivel presented on this board.
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Post by conzdad on Apr 6, 2024 8:35:14 GMT
I was bullied in High School on a daily basis,I put it down to my family not being as well off as others. e.g. I had to wear 2nd hand clothes and living on a council estate that had a bad reputation. The School were'nt interested even when I walked in soaking wet after being thrown in the local park lake across the road. I was told to go home (about an hours walk) soaked and shoeless having lost them in the lake. Arrived home and greeted with a hiding from my old man for losing the shoes and told to man up. It got to the point of playing truant quite often. To be punished by the school and again my old man. My education suffered. I asked to be allowed to change school but denied. Did these bullies get punished ? I became a recluse locking myself in my bedroom,not socializing. Finding a quiet spot to hideaway at school,but still got it walking the corridors to get to lessons. Did it effect my mental health, yes it did. Although we didnt recognise those problems back then. So I obviously despise bullies and if I see it happening I have to intervine on behalf of the victim. It will never be stamped out and most victims are scared to speak out for various reasons. So I can sympathise with the shooter but NOT to the point of shooting people. OK sorry rant over
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Post by cobhamstokey on Apr 6, 2024 9:45:06 GMT
I was bullied in High School on a daily basis,I put it down to my family not being as well off as others. e.g. I had to wear 2nd hand clothes and living on a council estate that had a bad reputation. The School were'nt interested even when I walked in soaking wet after being thrown in the local park lake across the road. I was told to go home (about an hours walk) soaked and shoeless having lost them in the lake. Arrived home and greeted with a hiding from my old man for losing the shoes and told to man up. It got to the point of playing truant quite often. To be punished by the school and again my old man. My education suffered. I asked to be allowed to change school but denied. Did these bullies get punished ? I became a recluse locking myself in my bedroom,not socializing. Finding a quiet spot to hideaway at school,but still got it walking the corridors to get to lessons. Did it effect my mental health, yes it did. Although we didnt recognise those problems back then. So I obviously despise bullies and if I see it happening I have to intervine on behalf of the victim. It will never be stamped out and most victims are scared to speak out for various reasons. So I can sympathise with the shooter but NOT to the point of shooting people. OK sorry rant over Superb post and very similar to my experience though mine was more down to moving, in what are now known as year 5 and year 10. Year 5 - Madeley to Stafford Year 10 - Stafford to Durham At the time living in the NE it was hell on a daily basis though I was fortunate to have supportive parents who always have and always will support me though I didn’t tell them about the regular fights I got into (and lost) as I didn’t want to worry them. It really can be anything that can make you a target whether it’s an accent, weight, size, being shy, teeth. In my case it was my mouth which at the time was similar to that of rock icon Mick Jagger. It caused me hell and I was often called “rubber lips.” Little did I know that people would actually pay large sums for it now. The one thing i did learn though is that when your faced with adversity at a young age if your not to badly damaged (which I wasn’t) you appreciate the good times even more. In recent years working with youngsters you really can see how much early trauma can impact on people when they’re adults especially at home. Every one has a story and though it should never be used as an excuse especially in cases like this it can be a factor and is where the likes of social services really do need to be fully commited.
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Post by conzdad on Apr 6, 2024 10:19:35 GMT
I was bullied in High School on a daily basis,I put it down to my family not being as well off as others. e.g. I had to wear 2nd hand clothes and living on a council estate that had a bad reputation. The School were'nt interested even when I walked in soaking wet after being thrown in the local park lake across the road. I was told to go home (about an hours walk) soaked and shoeless having lost them in the lake. Arrived home and greeted with a hiding from my old man for losing the shoes and told to man up. It got to the point of playing truant quite often. To be punished by the school and again my old man. My education suffered. I asked to be allowed to change school but denied. Did these bullies get punished ? I became a recluse locking myself in my bedroom,not socializing. Finding a quiet spot to hideaway at school,but still got it walking the corridors to get to lessons. Did it effect my mental health, yes it did. Although we didnt recognise those problems back then. So I obviously despise bullies and if I see it happening I have to intervine on behalf of the victim. It will never be stamped out and most victims are scared to speak out for various reasons. So I can sympathise with the shooter but NOT to the point of shooting people. OK sorry rant over Superb post and very similar to my experience though mine was more down to moving, in what are now known as year 5 and year 10. Year 5 - Madeley to Stafford Year 10 - Stafford to Durham At the time living in the NE it was hell on a daily basis though I was fortunate to have supportive parents who always have and always will support me though I didn’t tell them about the regular fights I got into (and lost) as I didn’t want to worry them. It really can be anything that can make you a target whether it’s an accent, weight, size, being shy, teeth. In my case it was my mouth which at the time was similar to that of rock icon Mick Jagger. It caused me hell and I was often called “rubber lips.” Little did I know that people would actually pay large sums for it now. The one thing i did learn though is that when your faced with adversity at a young age if your not to badly damaged (which I wasn’t) you appreciate the good times even more. In recent years working with youngsters you really can see how much early trauma can impact on people when they’re adults especially at home. Every one has a story and though it should never be used as an excuse especially in cases like this it can be a factor and is where the likes of social services really do need to be fully commited. Sorry to hear your story Cobs. It just goes to show how cruel and heartless some people can be. They don't really think about the effect it has on the bullied. To this day (almost 50 years later) it still effects me in small ways. Hope your'e ok now. I would like to think that someday Karma has or will come around to these people.
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Bullying
Apr 6, 2024 10:28:23 GMT
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Post by atillathehoneybee on Apr 6, 2024 10:28:23 GMT
It’s a terrible damning indictment on the schools how they let it carry on yet claim it doesn’t happen as they have a policy on it that is robust and lengthy I think that nicely sums up every parents dilemma. If you happen to be sitting in front of a teacher reading from a sheet, hands tied behind their back, in denial, you know at that point that little is going to be done....... Totally agree. My lad being Thai had awful abuse at school started with names, then the odd shove to being punched, teacher did fuck all, I went to see the kids parents and it stopped by and large, he now plays Rugby for the town where we live and his team mates proper look out for him at school, he has also started self defense, which doesn't necessarily make him hard, but it gives him a ton of confidence, one of his friends at self defense was being bullied, i asked him today if it had stopped, his response was classic, " of course it stopped , I beat the living daylights out of him".
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Post by atillathehoneybee on Apr 6, 2024 10:33:35 GMT
I was bullied in High School on a daily basis,I put it down to my family not being as well off as others. e.g. I had to wear 2nd hand clothes and living on a council estate that had a bad reputation. The School were'nt interested even when I walked in soaking wet after being thrown in the local park lake across the road. I was told to go home (about an hours walk) soaked and shoeless having lost them in the lake. Arrived home and greeted with a hiding from my old man for losing the shoes and told to man up. It got to the point of playing truant quite often. To be punished by the school and again my old man. My education suffered. I asked to be allowed to change school but denied. Did these bullies get punished ? I became a recluse locking myself in my bedroom,not socializing. Finding a quiet spot to hideaway at school,but still got it walking the corridors to get to lessons. Did it effect my mental health, yes it did. Although we didnt recognise those problems back then. So I obviously despise bullies and if I see it happening I have to intervine on behalf of the victim. It will never be stamped out and most victims are scared to speak out for various reasons. So I can sympathise with the shooter but NOT to the point of shooting people. OK sorry rant over Ecellent post, and this is why I absolutely drill into my lad that he must tell me the slightest thing on his mind, thankfully we have nipped his probs in the bud now and he loves school.
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