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Post by Gods on Mar 30, 2024 14:13:18 GMT
Any theories on what has gone on here?
2 women alleging historic rape I think but who, when, why how?
He's the sort of punchy fella who would sing the national anthem each night before he went to bed.
Not that that proves anything of course!
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Post by desman2 on Mar 30, 2024 14:25:40 GMT
Historic accusations can be used to destroy people as there is usually no evidence. Thats the whole problem with historic accusations as the question is, why did you not report it at the time.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 30, 2024 15:26:57 GMT
Historic accusations can be used to destroy people as there is usually no evidence. Thats the whole problem with historic accusations as the question is, why did you not report it at the time. If there is no evidence the person accused can sue for libel or slander. In this case Donaldson has been charged so there has to be evidence otherwise the police won't prosecute. There is plenty of evidence to show that women don't report rape and sexual assault because the process is traumatic and the chances of getting a conviction in the past were slim. Thankfully women are becoming increasingly confident about coming forward and the authorities are more supportive and likely to believe them. Interesting that it's always men who come forward with the theory that the women in these cases can't be trusted and likely to be out to destroy a career without any evidence to support that view. |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Mar 30, 2024 15:43:43 GMT
Historic accusations can be used to destroy people as there is usually no evidence. Thats the whole problem with historic accusations as the question is, why did you not report it at the time. If there is no evidence the person accused can sue for libel or slander. In this case Donaldson has been charged so there has to be evidence otherwise the police won't prosecute. There is plenty of evidence to show that women don't report rape and sexual assault because the process is traumatic and the chances of getting a conviction in the past were slim. Thankfully women are becoming increasingly confident about coming forward and the authorities are more supportive and likely to believe them. Interesting that it's always men who come forward with the theory that the women in these cases can't be trusted and likely to be out to destroy a career without any evidence to support that view. And women who automatically call someone guilty as we've seen before Domestic violence on men is rarely reported. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen The Johnny Depp case a good example where the women's rights brigade had him hung before the trial Edit ...Ulster Unionist just seen that Guilty as f*** |
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Post by wannabee on Mar 30, 2024 16:02:51 GMT
Historic accusations can be used to destroy people as there is usually no evidence. Thats the whole problem with historic accusations as the question is, why did you not report it at the time. It would be very surprising if the PSNI charged someone as high profile as Donaldson with 7 charges including Rape and other sexual offences without any evidence. His wife has been charged with 3 counts of aiding and abetting The historical charges relate to offences which were allegedly committed against 2 children so hardly surprising they are Historical i.e. not previously reported until much later as we've seen in many previous cases. Part of the Bail conditions is they do not communicate with each other and live separately, Jeffrey has taken himself off to his flat in London We must remember there are two alleged victims who may have to look forward to being traumatised at a trial. It must also be distressing for the Donaldson's two grown up Daughter's for them to have their parents facing such charges |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 30, 2024 16:12:37 GMT
Dirty owd git
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 30, 2024 16:16:49 GMT
If there is no evidence the person accused can sue for libel or slander. In this case Donaldson has been charged so there has to be evidence otherwise the police won't prosecute. There is plenty of evidence to show that women don't report rape and sexual assault because the process is traumatic and the chances of getting a conviction in the past were slim. Thankfully women are becoming increasingly confident about coming forward and the authorities are more supportive and likely to believe them. Interesting that it's always men who come forward with the theory that the women in these cases can't be trusted and likely to be out to destroy a career without any evidence to support that view. And women who automatically call someone guilty as we've seen before Domestic violence on men is rarely reported. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen The Johnny Depp case a good example where the women's rights brigade had him hung before the trial Edit ...Ulster Unionist just seen that Guilty as f*** There were also lots of women who came forward in support of Johnny Depp. And if some women automatically assumed he was guilty it doesn't justify men assuming that women are out to destroy men by falsely accusing them of historical sexual abuse. Women can be sexist as well men - doesn't make it right. |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Mar 30, 2024 16:22:19 GMT
And women who automatically call someone guilty as we've seen before Domestic violence on men is rarely reported. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen The Johnny Depp case a good example where the women's rights brigade had him hung before the trial Edit ...Ulster Unionist just seen that Guilty as f*** There were also lots of women who came forward in support of Johnny Depp. And if some women automatically assumed he was guilty it doesn't justify men assuming that women are out to destroy men by falsely accusing them of historical sexual abuse. Women can be sexist as well men - doesn't make it right. No one is claiming it makes it right As we saw with Ched Evans, the way the fella was treated She walks away |
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Post by liathroid on Mar 30, 2024 16:54:57 GMT
There were also lots of women who came forward in support of Johnny Depp. And if some women automatically assumed he was guilty it doesn't justify men assuming that women are out to destroy men by falsely accusing them of historical sexual abuse. Women can be sexist as well men - doesn't make it right. No one is claiming it makes it right As we saw with Ched Evans, the way the fella was treated She walks away |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Mar 30, 2024 16:57:33 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 30, 2024 17:04:52 GMT
There were also lots of women who came forward in support of Johnny Depp. And if some women automatically assumed he was guilty it doesn't justify men assuming that women are out to destroy men by falsely accusing them of historical sexual abuse. Women can be sexist as well men - doesn't make it right. No one is claiming it makes it right As we saw with Ched Evans, the way the fella was treated She walks away If the police believed there was a chance of a conviction for a false accusation of rape they could have prosecuted the woman. However for a conviction to be successful the standard of proof is "beyond reasonable doubt" and it is possible that the evidence for a false accusation in this case would not meet this criteria. If Evans wanted he could have sued for defamation - he either chose not to or was advised his case wouldn't pass the "balance of probability" criteria of a civil case. It's wrong to assume that the women got away with it because she was a woman - which is what you implying. It's more likely there was insufficient evidence to make a case. No-one is denying Evans had a drunken sexual encounter with the women. In the retrial the jury acquitted him. That doesn't mean the woman made false accusations. It means there was sufficient doubt to not find him guilty. You are doing a really good job of proving my point. Men have a tendency to assume the woman is at fault. I've no doubt women have a tendency to side with women but that doesn't invalidate the observation. |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Mar 30, 2024 17:51:27 GMT
No one is claiming it makes it right As we saw with Ched Evans, the way the fella was treated She walks away If the police believed there was a chance of a conviction for a false accusation of rape they could have prosecuted the woman. However for a conviction to be successful the standard of proof is "beyond reasonable doubt" and it is possible that the evidence for a false accusation in this case would not meet this criteria. If Evans wanted he could have sued for defamation - he either chose not to or was advised his case wouldn't pass the "balance of probability" criteria of a civil case. It's wrong to assume that the women got away with it because she was a woman - which is what you implying. It's more likely there was insufficient evidence to make a case. No-one is denying Evans had a drunken sexual encounter with the women. In the retrial the jury acquitted him. That doesn't mean the woman made false accusations. It means there was sufficient doubt to not find him guilty. You are doing a really good job of proving my point. Men have a tendency to assume the woman is at fault. I've no doubt women have a tendency to side with women but that doesn't invalidate the observation. I didn't imply that no I said he was treated as a leper in some quarters for something he simply didn't do and many cast judgment wrongly on him before he was convicted ...wrongly convicted of course . |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Mar 30, 2024 17:56:40 GMT
No one is claiming it makes it right As we saw with Ched Evans, the way the fella was treated She walks away If the police believed there was a chance of a conviction for a false accusation of rape they could have prosecuted the woman. However for a conviction to be successful the standard of proof is "beyond reasonable doubt" and it is possible that the evidence for a false accusation in this case would not meet this criteria. If Evans wanted he could have sued for defamation - he either chose not to or was advised his case wouldn't pass the "balance of probability" criteria of a civil case. It's wrong to assume that the women got away with it because she was a woman - which is what you implying. It's more likely there was insufficient evidence to make a case. No-one is denying Evans had a drunken sexual encounter with the women. In the retrial the jury acquitted him. That doesn't mean the woman made false accusations. It means there was sufficient doubt to not find him guilty. You are doing a really good job of proving my point. Men have a tendency to assume the woman is at fault. I've no doubt women have a tendency to side with women but that doesn't invalidate the observation. Actually have just asked someone qualified to answer and you're wrong re the police re Ched Evans . It becomes a civil matter and she's dealt with a few. Have been over a 100 in the UK this year including one of a gal accusing her stepfather to get rid of him she dealt with just recently Will take her word, no offence |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 30, 2024 18:18:47 GMT
If the police believed there was a chance of a conviction for a false accusation of rape they could have prosecuted the woman. However for a conviction to be successful the standard of proof is "beyond reasonable doubt" and it is possible that the evidence for a false accusation in this case would not meet this criteria. If Evans wanted he could have sued for defamation - he either chose not to or was advised his case wouldn't pass the "balance of probability" criteria of a civil case. It's wrong to assume that the women got away with it because she was a woman - which is what you implying. It's more likely there was insufficient evidence to make a case. No-one is denying Evans had a drunken sexual encounter with the women. In the retrial the jury acquitted him. That doesn't mean the woman made false accusations. It means there was sufficient doubt to not find him guilty. You are doing a really good job of proving my point. Men have a tendency to assume the woman is at fault. I've no doubt women have a tendency to side with women but that doesn't invalidate the observation. Actually have just asked someone qualified to answer and you're wrong re the police re Ched Evans . It becomes a civil matter and she's dealt with a few. Have been over a 100 in the UK this year including one of a gal accusing her stepfather to get rid of him she dealt with just recently Will take her word, no offence I think what would be a good start would be to protect the anonymity of BOTH parties until a trial has concluded. Always seems very unfair when based on accusations alone one party in the proceedings has their life ruined before a trial even begins. Just can't be right that. |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Mar 30, 2024 18:24:47 GMT
Actually have just asked someone qualified to answer and you're wrong re the police re Ched Evans . It becomes a civil matter and she's dealt with a few. Have been over a 100 in the UK this year including one of a gal accusing her stepfather to get rid of him she dealt with just recently Will take her word, no offence I think what would be a good start would be to protect the anonymity of BOTH parties until a trial has concluded. Always seems very unfair when based on accusations alone one party in the proceedings has their life ruined before a trial even begins. Just can't be right that. Absolutely The case I mentioned above, the girl was caught out lying to simply split her mother/ step father up. The fella will still have that stigma from the no smoke without fire brigade. Must be a horrible thing to have hanging over you especially when completely innocent as never goes away. |
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Post by Gods on Mar 30, 2024 19:17:06 GMT
Historic accusations can be used to destroy people as there is usually no evidence. Thats the whole problem with historic accusations as the question is, why did you not report it at the time. It would be very surprising if the PSNI charged someone as high profile as Donaldson with 7 charges including Rape and other sexual offences without any evidence. His wife has been charged with 3 counts of aiding and abetting The historical charges relate to offences which were allegedly committed against 2 children so hardly surprising they are Historical i.e. not previously reported until much later as we've seen in many previous cases.
Part of the Bail conditions is they do not communicate with each other and live separately, Jeffrey has taken himself off to his flat in London We must remember there are two alleged victims who may have to look forward to being traumatised at a trial. It must also be distressing for the Donaldson's two grown up Daughter's for them to have their parents facing such charges There it is, hidden away, the sort of snippet of gossip, scandal and innuendo I was hoping for! Is this true? The allegation not his guilt I mean. I had not heard this aspect to the story before. It's a bad look regardless of whether it can be proven, on that basis alone I guess his political goose is cooked. |
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Post by wannabee on Mar 30, 2024 19:25:02 GMT
It would be very surprising if the PSNI charged someone as high profile as Donaldson with 7 charges including Rape and other sexual offences without any evidence. His wife has been charged with 3 counts of aiding and abetting The historical charges relate to offences which were allegedly committed against 2 children so hardly surprising they are Historical i.e. not previously reported until much later as we've seen in many previous cases.
Part of the Bail conditions is they do not communicate with each other and live separately, Jeffrey has taken himself off to his flat in London We must remember there are two alleged victims who may have to look forward to being traumatised at a trial. It must also be distressing for the Donaldson's two grown up Daughter's for them to have their parents facing such charges There it is, hidden away, the sort of snippet of gossip, scandal and innuendo I was hoping for! Is this true? The allegation not his guilt I mean. I had not heard this aspect to the story before. It's a bad look regardless of whether it can be proven, on that basis alone I guess his political goose is cooked. The allegation is certainly true www.derrydaily.net/2024/03/30/donaldson-in-hiding-over-child-rape-and-sex-abuse-charges/ |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 31, 2024 10:41:13 GMT
If the police believed there was a chance of a conviction for a false accusation of rape they could have prosecuted the woman. However for a conviction to be successful the standard of proof is "beyond reasonable doubt" and it is possible that the evidence for a false accusation in this case would not meet this criteria. If Evans wanted he could have sued for defamation - he either chose not to or was advised his case wouldn't pass the "balance of probability" criteria of a civil case. It's wrong to assume that the women got away with it because she was a woman - which is what you implying. It's more likely there was insufficient evidence to make a case. No-one is denying Evans had a drunken sexual encounter with the women. In the retrial the jury acquitted him. That doesn't mean the woman made false accusations. It means there was sufficient doubt to not find him guilty. You are doing a really good job of proving my point. Men have a tendency to assume the woman is at fault. I've no doubt women have a tendency to side with women but that doesn't invalidate the observation. Actually have just asked someone qualified to answer and you're wrong re the police re Ched Evans . It becomes a civil matter and she's dealt with a few. Have been over a 100 in the UK this year including one of a gal accusing her stepfather to get rid of him she dealt with just recently Will take her word, no offence It was you who said she walked away scot free. Now you are saying it became a civil matter - so if there was a civil case she didn't walk away scot free. So what is it? |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 31, 2024 10:59:00 GMT
Actually have just asked someone qualified to answer and you're wrong re the police re Ched Evans . It becomes a civil matter and she's dealt with a few. Have been over a 100 in the UK this year including one of a gal accusing her stepfather to get rid of him she dealt with just recently Will take her word, no offence I think what would be a good start would be to protect the anonymity of BOTH parties until a trial has concluded. Always seems very unfair when based on accusations alone one party in the proceedings has their life ruined before a trial even begins. Just can't be right that. So in this case what should have been done? Allow Donaldson to remain as leader of the DUP? Let him carry on attending Parliament? If it ever got out that he was carrying on as normal there would (rightly) be complaints of an establishment cover up. As it is it was Donaldson himself who resigned and stating that he has been accused of historical sexual offences - he put the matter in the public domain before it got out. There is no way something like this wasn't going to get into the public domain. It's an unfortunate side effect of accepting a life in public office - anything you do is going to play out in the public domain. And that is how it should be - otherwise the great and the good just keep things quiet behind closed doors. It makes a mockery of having a free press. Donaldson may indeed be innocent and if he is hopeful he gets found not guilty and he can return to public life. What I find disturbing is the number of people siding with Donaldson and banging on about the poor (male) victims of false accusations. Where is the sympathy for the children who may have been sexually abused? I've no idea who is innocent or who is guilty but I think the potential victims have at least as much right to my sympathy as the accused. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 31, 2024 19:16:37 GMT
I think what would be a good start would be to protect the anonymity of BOTH parties until a trial has concluded. Always seems very unfair when based on accusations alone one party in the proceedings has their life ruined before a trial even begins. Just can't be right that. Absolutely The case I mentioned above, the girl was caught out lying to simply split her mother/ step father up. The fella will still have that stigma from the no smoke without fire brigade. Must be a horrible thing to have hanging over you especially when completely innocent as never goes away. I have a friend who went through a similar experience a few years back. He nearly didn’t survive it |
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Post by Veritas on Mar 31, 2024 19:30:29 GMT
Actually have just asked someone qualified to answer and you're wrong re the police re Ched Evans . It becomes a civil matter and she's dealt with a few. Have been over a 100 in the UK this year including one of a gal accusing her stepfather to get rid of him she dealt with just recently Will take her word, no offence I think what would be a good start would be to protect the anonymity of BOTH parties until a trial has concluded. Always seems very unfair when based on accusations alone one party in the proceedings has their life ruined before a trial even begins. Just can't be right that. My initial thoughts are to agree but there are cases like Saville where it was only publicity around the first brave complainants that saw many of the others come forward. |
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Post by felonious on Mar 31, 2024 20:00:52 GMT
I think what would be a good start would be to protect the anonymity of BOTH parties until a trial has concluded. Always seems very unfair when based on accusations alone one party in the proceedings has their life ruined before a trial even begins. Just can't be right that. My initial thoughts are to agree but there are cases like Saville where it was only publicity around the first brave complainants that saw many of the others come forward. It's a tough one for every Savile there's a Cliff Richard. Fortunately for him he had the money and good friends who stood by him. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 31, 2024 20:14:25 GMT
My initial thoughts are to agree but there are cases like Saville where it was only publicity around the first brave complainants that saw many of the others come forward. It's a tough one for every Savile there's a Cliff Richard. Fortunately for him he had the money and good friends who stood by him. And a “great backing group”😉 |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 31, 2024 20:16:56 GMT
It's a tough one for every Savile there's a Cliff Richard. Fortunately for him he had the money and good friends who stood by him. And a “great backing group”😉 That's not true, they didn't come forward to help him at all and instead decided to remain in the shadows ... |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 31, 2024 20:19:04 GMT
And a “great backing group”😉 That's not true, they didn't come forward to help him at all and instead decided to remain in the shadows ... I tell you what, that’s not bad, not bad at all👍🏻 |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 2, 2024 11:49:12 GMT
Absolutely The case I mentioned above, the girl was caught out lying to simply split her mother/ step father up. The fella will still have that stigma from the no smoke without fire brigade. Must be a horrible thing to have hanging over you especially when completely innocent as never goes away. I have a friend who went through a similar experience a few years back. He nearly didn’t survive it This is quite an old article but I suspect nothing much has changed.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45565684 1 Only between 2 and 10% of accusations of rape turn out to be false. The vast majority are not false. 2 Far more men get away with rape and sexual assault than get wrongfully convicted. I've no doubt your friend was innocent and suffered as a result of being wrongly accused and I have every sympathy. However in this case there is absolutely no evidence to suggest the accusations are false so why the emphasis on sympathy for the accused rather than sympathy for the alleged victims of child sexual abuse when statistically it's more likely they are the victims and not making false accusations. I'm not saying false accusations aren't a thing and shouldn't be discussed on this thread but what I find odd is that those bringing up the issue of false accusations have expressed absolutely no sympathy for those who may have been sexually abused as children. Why is that? Do you believe there is evidence for there being false accusations in this case? Do you believe that the majority of these sort of accusations are false? Or is your natural inclination to believe the accused rather the accuser in these cases? |
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