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Post by Scrotnig on Jan 28, 2024 11:42:46 GMT
Halfway through a season New manager with under 10 games in charge 3 days left in the window Playoffs possible but highly unlikely Relegation possible but unlikely Recent defeat and a poor performance Sometimes you have to take the emotion out of something Give it time If we're having the same discussion next season then yes, we are treading water Yes we do have to give it time, but we’ve been here before, over and over again. Some fear that we are just repeating the same cycle again, the same mistakes. I’m undecided but I’ve got to say I’m not really seeing much to convince me. We’ve just had a thrashing. We are very likely to follow that up with two more thrashings. Depending on other results we are quite likely to be properly in the relegation mire after that.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2024 11:46:30 GMT
Halfway through a season New manager with under 10 games in charge 3 days left in the window Playoffs possible but highly unlikely Relegation possible but unlikely Recent defeat and a poor performance Sometimes you have to take the emotion out of something Give it time If we're having the same discussion next season then yes, we are treading water Yes we do have to give it time, but we’ve been here before, over and over again. Some fear that we are just repeating the same cycle again, the same mistakes. I’m undecided but I’ve got to say I’m not really seeing much to convince me. We’ve just had a thrashing. We are very likely to follow that up with two more thrashings. Depending on other results we are quite likely to be properly in the relegation mire after that. He’s been here two minutes and it’s a January window. What were people expecting?
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Post by Scrotnig on Jan 28, 2024 11:51:33 GMT
Yes we do have to give it time, but we’ve been here before, over and over again. Some fear that we are just repeating the same cycle again, the same mistakes. I’m undecided but I’ve got to say I’m not really seeing much to convince me. We’ve just had a thrashing. We are very likely to follow that up with two more thrashings. Depending on other results we are quite likely to be properly in the relegation mire after that. He’s been here two minutes and it’s a January window. What were people expecting? Speaking for myself, I hoped for a change in player attitudes. Schuey’s training comments yesterday have really bothered me. If it’s got so bad he feels the need to make it public, then we are in a very bad place. It’s hugely concerning. We need to accept we are in a full on relegation fight and the club and the fans need to start acting like we realise that. All this talk of “pretty football” is pointless, we can’t score and we can’t defend. All we’ll do is entertain the crowds as we go down.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2024 12:15:29 GMT
He’s been here two minutes and it’s a January window. What were people expecting? Speaking for myself, I hoped for a change in player attitudes. Schuey’s training comments yesterday have really bothered me. If it’s got so bad he feels the need to make it public, then we are in a very bad place. It’s hugely concerning. We need to accept we are in a full on relegation fight and the club and the fans need to start acting like we realise that. All this talk of “pretty football” is pointless, we can’t score and we can’t defend. All we’ll do is entertain the crowds as we go down. We have generally played way more positive. Things aren’t going to change overnight though. I haven’t seen a second of the game yesterday so can’t comment but this season is a write off. I don’t think we are in a real relegation battle tbh. I think it’s all a tad dramatic.
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Post by Fred Merger on Jan 28, 2024 12:25:42 GMT
At least the 6 Nations starts next week! 👍
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Post by Davef on Jan 28, 2024 12:25:48 GMT
He’s been here two minutes and it’s a January window. What were people expecting? Speaking for myself, I hoped for a change in player attitudes. Schuey’s training comments yesterday have really bothered me. If it’s got so bad he feels the need to make it public, then we are in a very bad place. It’s hugely concerning. We need to accept we are in a full on relegation fight and the club and the fans need to start acting like we realise that. All this talk of “pretty football” is pointless, we can’t score and we can’t defend. All we’ll do is entertain the crowds as we go down. Did he mention the players' attitude? He said that the training was "scrappy" and we brought it into the game. To me, he's talking about technique, passing and finishing which everybody could see was piss poor yesterday. Can't say I noticed a poor attitude from the team yesterday.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 28, 2024 12:27:59 GMT
Speaking for myself, I hoped for a change in player attitudes. Schuey’s training comments yesterday have really bothered me. If it’s got so bad he feels the need to make it public, then we are in a very bad place. It’s hugely concerning. We need to accept we are in a full on relegation fight and the club and the fans need to start acting like we realise that. All this talk of “pretty football” is pointless, we can’t score and we can’t defend. All we’ll do is entertain the crowds as we go down. Did he mention the players' attitude? He said that the training was "scrappy" and we brought it into the game. To me, he's talking about technique, passing and finishing which everybody could see was piss poor yesterday. Can't say I noticed a poor attitude from the team yesterday. What about players ambling back,instead of rushing?
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Post by Glory Hunter on Jan 28, 2024 12:28:46 GMT
Speaking for myself, I hoped for a change in player attitudes. Schuey’s training comments yesterday have really bothered me. If it’s got so bad he feels the need to make it public, then we are in a very bad place. It’s hugely concerning. We need to accept we are in a full on relegation fight and the club and the fans need to start acting like we realise that. All this talk of “pretty football” is pointless, we can’t score and we can’t defend. All we’ll do is entertain the crowds as we go down. We have generally played way more positive. Things aren’t going to change overnight though. I haven’t seen a second of the game yesterday so can’t comment but this season is a write off. I don’t think we are in a real relegation battle tbh. I think it’s all a tad dramatic. I hope you are right about the relegation issue. On the basis we need 5/6 wins to make sure, where are they coming from?
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Post by baconburger on Jan 28, 2024 12:36:24 GMT
We haven’t come anywhere near to going down that’s just hysterical nonsense. We have a younger higher potential squad than we’ve had for an eon. It needs more work but we’re not restricted by too many long and expensive contracts that make trying to solve a few more of our problems seem burdensome. It’s a work in progress that I have far more confidence in than previous models. It’s worth making the point that we are ALREADY down, and what we are talking about here is the risk of going down a second time. We certainly did come close to going down again, when we were bottom at Christmas under Nathan Jones. It certainly does “need more work” but it’s been needing that since we came down from the Prem. Contrast what we’ve “achieved” with how Leicester have handled the same situation. We are “trending downwards” in modern parlance. It’s not a complete free fall like some clubs have experienced but the end result is the same - stagnation in the lower leagues. This shouldn’t be happening to us. We don’t have corrupt or skint owners. It’s down to mismanagement. It can still be put right. Our situation is nothing like Leicester. They were relegated with numerous high value playing assets. Straight away they were able to wheel and deal in the market at a profit and they sold those assets at very good prices. We were relegated with very few high value playing assets which we subsequently tried to hang on to and add to to the tune of £50M that went on players with hardly any chance of an upside. We then compounded that under NJ by spending even more dead money and also not getting rid of players ( stockpiling). We’ve been much smarter in the market since we got rid of NJ and employed MON with a few notable very expensive deals for has beens. Apart from that our business especially where fees have been involved has been good. That has not translated into an upturn on the pitch but we certainly have more players to feel positive about. We can soon dispense with more expensive mistakes and try to add to the group of potential high value assets we already have. It may or may not culminate in a promotion push. I’m not too fussed I’d far rather just be able to enjoy the games. I think we’re making progress on that front but with some vital ingredients still missing.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 28, 2024 14:02:45 GMT
Yes we do have to give it time, but we’ve been here before, over and over again. Some fear that we are just repeating the same cycle again, the same mistakes. I’m undecided but I’ve got to say I’m not really seeing much to convince me. We’ve just had a thrashing. We are very likely to follow that up with two more thrashings. Depending on other results we are quite likely to be properly in the relegation mire after that. He’s been here two minutes and it’s a January window. What were people expecting? How many, and which posters are showing any dissent or frustration toward Schumacher on this post? The original post was not in any way attempting to be critical of the current manager!!!
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jan 28, 2024 14:36:54 GMT
I kept quiet when shumacher was announced and my feelings on it.
The fact he has a good record at Plymouth and talks a good game and appears to be an up and coming manager.
Im afraid we have been here before.
We should have gone full on foreign which the owners will never do OR get an old hard ass Sam Allardyce type in to play ugly but winning football.
I dont dislike Schumacher at all but I also didn't dislike Nathan Jones.
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Post by baconburger on Jan 28, 2024 15:33:25 GMT
I kept quiet when shumacher was announced and my feelings on it. The fact he has a good record at Plymouth and talks a good game and appears to be an up and coming manager. Im afraid we have been here before. We should have gone full on foreign which the owners will never do OR get an old hard ass Sam Allardyce type in to play ugly but winning football. I dont dislike Schumacher at all but I also didn't dislike Nathan Jones. So who’s making that old hard ass Sam Allardyce type thing work, playing ugly but winning football? There’s a reason the vast majority of them are no longer in the game just like there’s a reasons dinosaurs are extinct.
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Jan 28, 2024 15:34:31 GMT
Right now I'd be quite happy to be treading water. Feels more like a slow sink into quicksand.
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Post by blackpoolred on Jan 28, 2024 22:28:40 GMT
Have to start looking a bit further than the manager this time. Changes needed from top to bottom They’ve already done that. Gave the last fraud of a manager the opportunity to choose the technical director and I think it was him that chose the head scout that given the rather embarrassing amount of time I spend on Football Manager probably knows less than I do! I was going more for the owners being replaced and starting from there. They are generous and I think they have the best intentions, but every time they are here we end up in tier 3 and for a club our size and backing that takes some doing. I don't get the xenophobia and having to have a British manager every time - it is cutting out 99% of the quality market and virtually all of the best managers/candidates, cost us our place in the prem and there is a lot of other things I could go on about - but while they remain, for me, we are only going in one direction. They may well unearth a Pulis mk2 at some point that will halt the slide and perform miracles, but ultimately that will be followed by bad decision after bad decision and demise.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Jan 28, 2024 23:54:39 GMT
They’ve already done that. Gave the last fraud of a manager the opportunity to choose the technical director and I think it was him that chose the head scout that given the rather embarrassing amount of time I spend on Football Manager probably knows less than I do! I was going more for the owners being replaced and starting from there. They are generous and I think they have the best intentions, but every time they are here we end up in tier 3 and for a club our size and backing that takes some doing. I don't get the xenophobia and having to have a British manager every time - it is cutting out 99% of the quality market and virtually all of the best managers/candidates, cost us our place in the prem and there is a lot of other things I could go on about - but while they remain, for me, we are only going in one direction. They may well unearth a Pulis mk2 at some point that will halt the slide and perform miracles, but ultimately that will be followed by bad decision after bad decision and demise. Oh I get what you mean now sorry. I completely agree about foreign managers, but I don’t think there’s a problem with the current manager. He won’t be a Pulis Mark 2, nor would I want him to be, I’d rather him be himself and be a success. Though I know what you meant really, I’m just not a fan of looking backwards, made even worse by it being so popular to do so in S-O-T! Speaking of foreign, I don’t think there’s as big a problem as some would say with foreign ownership. Yes it could go wrong, we could end up with some of the arseholes that have lead to points deductions, pitch invasions etc (though we did have our own pitch invasion in Coates Part One!) but we could end up with modern methods implemented properly. As it is, Coates Jnr thinks he’s done just that. Problem is, he went completely the wrong way about it (see my post you quoted). I can take losing, I can take having a bad season when things just don’t go our way, but it infuriates me how our club is ran, on the footballing side anyway.
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skidog
Academy Starlet
Posts: 159
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Post by skidog on Jan 29, 2024 0:23:24 GMT
Yes, our results are underwhelming, but still I think there are positive signs after Schumacher came in. We are playing a much more entertaining football and we are creating chances. Unfortunately we don't have players able to put the ball in the net regularly and in addition we always seem to concede extremely soft goals. I actually think we need just 3 players to start the climb on the table, a 15+ goals striker, a dominant central defender and a left back. If we can fill these positions with quality we should be fine. Will be good to have Junior back as well! Not sure about scoring on a regular basis, at the moment i’d settle for scoring on an irregular basis because that would certainly be an improvement on what we are currently achieving!!
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Post by blackpoolred on Jan 29, 2024 0:35:57 GMT
I was going more for the owners being replaced and starting from there. They are generous and I think they have the best intentions, but every time they are here we end up in tier 3 and for a club our size and backing that takes some doing. I don't get the xenophobia and having to have a British manager every time - it is cutting out 99% of the quality market and virtually all of the best managers/candidates, cost us our place in the prem and there is a lot of other things I could go on about - but while they remain, for me, we are only going in one direction. They may well unearth a Pulis mk2 at some point that will halt the slide and perform miracles, but ultimately that will be followed by bad decision after bad decision and demise. Oh I get what you mean now sorry. I completely agree about foreign managers, but I don’t think there’s a problem with the current manager. He won’t be a Pulis Mark 2, nor would I want him to be, I’d rather him be himself and be a success. Though I know what you meant really, I’m just not a fan of looking backwards, made even worse by it being so popular to do so in S-O-T! Speaking of foreign, I don’t think there’s as big a problem as some would say with foreign ownership. Yes it could go wrong, we could end up with some of the arseholes that have lead to points deductions, pitch invasions etc (though we did have our own pitch invasion in Coates Part One!) but we could end up with modern methods implemented properly. As it is, Coates Jnr thinks he’s done just that. Problem is, he went completely the wrong way about it (see my post you quoted). I can take losing, I can take having a bad season when things just don’t go our way, but it infuriates me how our club is ran, on the footballing side anyway. We definitely could end up with a lot worse regarding our ownership or maybe something exciting and different - I think at some point you just have to say what have we got to lose. JC has way more time than me left on this planet, and I fear all I may have to look forward to is one dreary British punt after another. Our new manager had a good start, but we will see his worth now as the confidence drops after a couple of defeats. I Like his passion and he looks a really sore loser(which is a good thing) and he has called out the transfer team by saying we need some quality and he has done it publicly, which the club will hate. His tactics looked a bit naïve to me yesterday - full-backs left way too exposed. If we are going to attack teams and get men forward he is going to have to improve the quality of the last line of defence. A risk to put a young manager in charge of a failing club that needs rebranding, a manger with little managerial experience and next to none at this level - but I think if it goes pear-shaped this time, then we can't be asking JC to make another, potentially, disastrous choice - got to be looking past the manager. I mean we have had a few now that have been successful before and after arriving at our club and that should be telling us all we need to know
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 29, 2024 6:19:46 GMT
I kept quiet when shumacher was announced and my feelings on it. The fact he has a good record at Plymouth and talks a good game and appears to be an up and coming manager. Im afraid we have been here before. We should have gone full on foreign which the owners will never do OR get an old hard ass Sam Allardyce type in to play ugly but winning football. I dont dislike Schumacher at all but I also didn't dislike Nathan Jones. Going 'full on foreign' isn't going to change anything. The players will still be shit, but will just have someone getting exasperated with them in a Spanish/German/Dutch accent instead of an Irish/Scottish/Scouse one. There are good, bad and average managers from every country on earth: there is no problem with us appointing a British manager as long as they're good at their job. Schumacher knows how he wants to play, and his ideas look positive and exciting to watch. However, as always, we'll live or die by how good our recruitment is. And for too long, our recruitment has been absolutely abysmal.
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Post by jokker on Jan 29, 2024 6:57:34 GMT
We certainly did come close to going down again, when we were bottom at Christmas under Nathan Jones. We were never "bottom at Christmas under Nathan Jones", because he was hired in January and sacked in November, all in 2019.
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Post by nott1 on Jan 29, 2024 10:59:25 GMT
Sinking close to drowning without a striker!
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Post by swandog73 on Jan 29, 2024 11:08:27 GMT
Taking all the managers out of the equation! We're still no better off in the 6? Seasons we've now been out the prem, we haven't got better at all, regardless of the manager! Leicester, Southampton and previous relegated teams seem to bounce back, but not stoke ??
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Jan 29, 2024 11:17:22 GMT
Treading water would do for me at the moment as we could be sinking fast after Saturday. Plymouth seem to be coping alright after losing there manager & one of the so called better loan players.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 29, 2024 11:24:49 GMT
Taking all the managers out of the equation! We're still no better off in the 6? Seasons we've now been out the prem, we haven't got better at all, regardless of the manager! Leicester, Southampton and previous relegated teams seem to bounce back, but not stoke ?? Teams that bounce back either have a decent core of players to build on (Leicester) or immediately gut the squad and rebuild (Burnley). We did neither. Clubs that don't bounce back in 2 years have to sell off the players they can't afford, downsize and end up being also rans in the Championship or get relegated to League 1. It takes years for teams that don't bounce straight back to mount a serious promotion challenge. Yes we are treading water but that's pretty much par for the course for a club in our situation.
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Post by scarlet on Jan 29, 2024 11:59:51 GMT
We've only lost one more game than Sunderland this season. However, because they know how to turn draws into wins we're eleven points behind them. Until we rectify this we are destined to struggle.
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Post by raythesailor on Jan 29, 2024 12:11:34 GMT
Not schizophrenia as suggested above but genuinely fed up. Using often used, and very true,quotes on here; Fed up of another week end ruined. Fed up of seeing the away section rejoicing whilst we just set there disheartened yet again. 😔
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Post by peterthornesboots on Jan 29, 2024 12:25:14 GMT
Taking all the managers out of the equation! We're still no better off in the 6? Seasons we've now been out the prem, we haven't got better at all, regardless of the manager! Leicester, Southampton and previous relegated teams seem to bounce back, but not stoke ?? Teams that bounce back either have a decent core of players to build on (Leicester) or immediately gut the squad and rebuild (Burnley). We did neither. Clubs that don't bounce back in 2 years have to sell off the players they can't afford, downsize and end up being also rans in the Championship or get relegated to League 1. It takes years for teams that don't bounce straight back to mount a serious promotion challenge. Yes we are treading water but that's pretty much par for the course for a club in our situation. I would agree, but I would also say that this is a situation of our own making. The three years of parachute payments that clubs receive after being relegated from the Premier League gives then a huge financial advantage. However, we completely wasted that advantage and, in actual fact, spent most of those three seasons spiralling into deeper and deeper FFP problems. Those first three seasons after relegation were crucial and we ended up with three bottom half finishes (including a brush with relegation).
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 29, 2024 13:19:27 GMT
Teams that bounce back either have a decent core of players to build on (Leicester) or immediately gut the squad and rebuild (Burnley). We did neither. Clubs that don't bounce back in 2 years have to sell off the players they can't afford, downsize and end up being also rans in the Championship or get relegated to League 1. It takes years for teams that don't bounce straight back to mount a serious promotion challenge. Yes we are treading water but that's pretty much par for the course for a club in our situation. I would agree, but I would also say that this is a situation of our own making. The three years of parachute payments that clubs receive after being relegated from the Premier League gives then a huge financial advantage. However, we completely wasted that advantage and, in actual fact, spent most of those three seasons spiralling into deeper and deeper FFP problems. Those first three seasons after relegation were crucial and we ended up with three bottom half finishes (including a brush with relegation). We should have done what Burnley did - gut the squad and do a complete rebuild while we were an attractive prospect and we had the parachute payments. We couldn't have done a Leicester because what was left of the Premier League squad wasn't up to it. Everything stems from that misjudgement - nothing could be done once that mistake was made and where we are now was pretty much inevitable from that point on. I agree with the OP about us treading water but I don't agree we are doing it by choice or that it is a conundrum that we are in this situation. It's what happens to clubs that don't bounce straight back up. Having said that I do think we have bottomed out and will turn the corner next season under Schumacher.
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Post by moon on Jan 29, 2024 13:47:06 GMT
Halfway through a season New manager with under 10 games in charge 3 days left in the window Playoffs possible but highly unlikely Relegation possible but unlikely Recent defeat and a poor performance Sometimes you have to take the emotion out of something Give it time If we're having the same discussion next season then yes, we are treading water Yes we do have to give it time, but we’ve been here before, over and over again. Some fear that we are just repeating the same cycle again, the same mistakes. I’m undecided but I’ve got to say I’m not really seeing much to convince me. We’ve just had a thrashing. We are very likely to follow that up with two more thrashings. Depending on other results we are quite likely to be properly in the relegation mire after that.
3-1 away from home against a team comfortably above us in the league, sitting just outside the playoff places, does not constitute a thrashing, especially when you take into account we had more possession (58%) and nearly twice as many attempts (15 shots, 4 on target compared to their 8 shots, 5 on target).
We didn't play particularly well in that we missed a load of chances and made some mistakes at the back, but it was certainly not a thrashing. For me a thrashing is either when a team puts 4 or more past you without reply, or those games where you struggle to create anything as the opposition completely nullifies you, or both (see the games where Bayern Munich and Real Madrid visited Manchester City last season).
I'm sure we'll struggle against Leicester, so things are likely to get worse before they get better, but we were never going to magically turn things around and go on a winning streak - we started the season with an imbalanced squad, a huge number of changes, a shaky defence and no real goalscorer. We're going to have to battle it out until the summer as there is no way we're fixing all the issues in this window.
We are in a relegation battle yet again, but I think we're unlikely to go down and I do think we've picked the right manager for the job.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jan 29, 2024 14:01:13 GMT
Just about treading water.
We have rolled the dice on yet another manager - inexperienced, going down the 'man of the fans' route. To be fair, the club has not used this approach yet. It appears to be winning a few over early doors, but a couple more losses and we'll be losing our shit.
The common denominator (the board) over the last few years hasn't really changed. You can keep buying waist 34 jeans to fit your 40-inch waist, but until you lose weight, you're gonna keep bursting those jeans😉
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Post by philb on Jan 29, 2024 15:16:40 GMT
Everything was already doom and gloom. The issue is the other way round. An “unbeaten run” that was actually mostly a series of dull draws was seen as the dawn of a shining new era. It wasn’t. Obviously. We’ve now just reverted to type. We are on a slow downward spiral and have been for many years and sooner or later we are going down. We CANNOT play the way we do and turn in the results we do and not go down at some point. We haven’t come anywhere near to going down that’s just hysterical nonsense. We have a younger higher potential squad than we’ve had for an eon. It needs more work but we’re not restricted by too many long and expensive contracts that make trying to solve a few more of our problems seem burdensome. It’s a work in progress that I have far more confidence in than previous models. To say we haven’t come anywhere near to going down is ridiculous. Yes in the end we got enough points to stay up at the end of the season, but for most of the seasons since we got relegated we’ve definitely been in precarious positions at different points in those seasons. Even now with 17 games to go we’re only 7 points off relegation and that could be 4 by this Saturday evening. It’s definitely a downward spiral that can’t continue much longer or as history shows it will eventually end in a bad way.
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