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Post by felonious on Jan 26, 2024 13:40:30 GMT
Very interesting programme last night showing the perspective from both sides of the divide based on events at Shirebrook.
Scargill's lads last night would have made 70s hooligans blush
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jan 26, 2024 15:06:02 GMT
Very interesting programme last night showing the perspective from both sides of the divide based on events at Shirebrook. Scargill's lads last night would have made 70s hooligans blush Was a very interesting watch. And sad to see how easily divided a community can become. And they're all working in the sports direct HQ warehouse for Mike Ashley now I guess 🤔 |
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Post by felonious on Jan 26, 2024 17:15:40 GMT
Very interesting programme last night showing the perspective from both sides of the divide based on events at Shirebrook. Scargill's lads last night would have made 70s hooligans blush Was a very interesting watch. And sad to see how easily divided a community can become. And they're all working in the sports direct HQ warehouse for Mike Ashley now I guess 🤔 Yes the rapid disintegration of village life was quite startling. I suppose it didn't help that the majority in the region voted against the strike and the union called the members out. |
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Post by Dutchpeter on Jan 26, 2024 17:32:50 GMT
I’ve not seen it but I’m very keen to watch it as I absorb anything about the miners strike which is quickly becoming forgotten history. The best books tend to be from the 1980s by industrial correspondents (remember them?) as they were closer to the primary sources. More recent books by middle class leftist oafs like Seamus Milne simply don’t have a clue. The real story of the strike, or at least the balanced one hasn’t been written yet. After all, history is about evaluating facts and the conclusions may not be palatable for supporters of either side.
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Post by felonious on Jan 26, 2024 17:59:54 GMT
I’ve not seen it but I’m very keen to watch it as I absorb anything about the miners strike which is quickly becoming forgotten history. The best books tend to be from the 1980s by industrial correspondents (remember them?) as they were closer to the primary sources. More recent books by middle class leftist oafs like Seamus Milne simply don’t have a clue. The real story of the strike, or at least the balanced one hasn’t been written yet. After all, history is about evaluating facts and the conclusions may not be palatable for supporters of either side. What was interesting last night was that it left Thatcher and Scargill to one side and concentrated on the people who were at the sharp end striking/ working/ reluctantly striking because of picket lines together with the wives of both sets of miners. There was also the local police view commenting on the outside policing although the police were on a hiding to nothing trying to sort that one out. In terms of balance I think the makers got it right allowing people to talk about the events openly and frankly. |
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Post by pipegatepotter on Jan 26, 2024 23:36:07 GMT
Not seen it but was out on strike for 9 months.
Not long married and due to move in to a 3 bed detached just before the strike. Racked up enormous debt, which obviously had to be repaid over time.
Bit of cash from my brother tater peeling in his chippy and going to Park Site club for a food hand out was soul destroying!
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jan 26, 2024 23:37:29 GMT
I’ve not seen it but I’m very keen to watch it as I absorb anything about the miners strike which is quickly becoming forgotten history. The best books tend to be from the 1980s by industrial correspondents (remember them?) as they were closer to the primary sources. More recent books by middle class leftist oafs like Seamus Milne simply don’t have a clue. The real story of the strike, or at least the balanced one hasn’t been written yet. After all, history is about evaluating facts and the conclusions may not be palatable for supporters of either side. What was interesting last night was that it left Thatcher and Scargill to one side and concentrated on the people who were at the sharp end striking/ working/ reluctantly striking because of picket lines together with the wives of both sets of miners. There was also the local police view commenting on the outside policing although the police were on a hiding to nothing trying to sort that one out. In terms of balance I think the makers got it right allowing people to talk about the events openly and frankly. Yes, let's hear both sides of a debate without this cancelling bullshit bollocks. And to think its taking 40 years to hear balanced reason on this matter. We all need to do better. |
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Post by felonious on Feb 2, 2024 8:56:29 GMT
Last night's programme focussed on Orgreave not one for the faint hearted. Interesting to hear from miners who went through the court process and seem to be still scarred for life. Pawns in the battle between Scargill and Thatcher along with the police. Some copper on there last night saying that he kept his head down behind the lines that day to make sure he didn't have an eye taken out by a brick.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 2, 2024 9:48:06 GMT
Last night's programme focussed on Orgreave not one for the faint hearted. Interesting to hear from miners who went through the court process and seem to be still scarred for life. Pawns in the battle between Scargill and Thatcher along with the police. Some copper on there last night saying that he kept his head down behind the lines that day to make sure he didn't have an eye taken out by a brick. I was only a nipper when all this was going down. Very interesting watching it all back. My one immediate conclusion from last night was that plenty of those coppers were absolutely itching for some violence. Some of those scenes where isolated and mostly incapacitated miners were getting a total kicking was hard to watch. Absolutely fucking disgusting. And to think not a single cop charged is staggering. Some of them were wanton in their violence. And the lies the senior officers were dishing out to justify their tactics is awful. The sky was dark with the bricks and missiles!!!!! Video evidence shows you're a lying shit rag officer!!!!!!! |
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Post by Dutchpeter on Feb 2, 2024 12:54:07 GMT
Last night's programme focussed on Orgreave not one for the faint hearted. Interesting to hear from miners who went through the court process and seem to be still scarred for life. Pawns in the battle between Scargill and Thatcher along with the police. Some copper on there last night saying that he kept his head down behind the lines that day to make sure he didn't have an eye taken out by a brick. It was interesting to see the NUM Video footage that puts things in a new light. The shots of the mounted police lined up on the hillside just waiting was terrifying. I’m not naive enough to think that the miners were good boys because they were capable of a ruck, but the force meted out by the police was simply disproportionate to the situation they had to contain. Letting miners into the area where they had previously been stopped and turned around just makes you think it was almost an ambush, like there was a premeditated plan to ‘teach them a lesson’. The conspiracy afterwards to organise evidence against miners, so that they might be charged with riot is shocking even for those times. |
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Post by elystokie on Feb 2, 2024 13:29:06 GMT
Last night's programme focussed on Orgreave not one for the faint hearted. Interesting to hear from miners who went through the court process and seem to be still scarred for life. Pawns in the battle between Scargill and Thatcher along with the police. Some copper on there last night saying that he kept his head down behind the lines that day to make sure he didn't have an eye taken out by a brick. It was interesting to see the NUM Video footage that puts things in a new light. The shots of the mounted police lined up on the hillside just waiting was terrifying. I’m not naive enough to think that the miners were good boys because they were capable of a ruck, but the force meted out by the police was simply disproportionate to the situation they had to contain. Letting miners into the area where they had previously been stopped and turned around just makes you think it was almost an ambush, like there was a premeditated plan to ‘teach them a lesson’. The conspiracy afterwards to organise evidence against miners, so that they might be charged with riot is shocking even for those times. I agree and it's a disgrace that not a single police officer faced any disciplinary action for their actions that day or for lying in court. Telling that the prosecution counsel basically gave up because the overwhelming evidence contradicted the charges brought. To force a group of people into an area and charge them with rioting because they're in that area is very, very low. |
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Post by felonious on Feb 2, 2024 15:24:10 GMT
It was interesting to see the NUM Video footage that puts things in a new light. The shots of the mounted police lined up on the hillside just waiting was terrifying. I’m not naive enough to think that the miners were good boys because they were capable of a ruck, but the force meted out by the police was simply disproportionate to the situation they had to contain. Letting miners into the area where they had previously been stopped and turned around just makes you think it was almost an ambush, like there was a premeditated plan to ‘teach them a lesson’. The conspiracy afterwards to organise evidence against miners, so that they might be charged with riot is shocking even for those times. I agree and it's a disgrace that not a single police officer faced any disciplinary action for their actions that day or for lying in court. Telling that the prosecution counsel basically gave up because the overwhelming evidence contradicted the charges brought. To force a group of people into an area and charge them with rioting because they're in that area is very, very low. Whilst you are absolutely correct regarding Orgreave you have to wonder just how many police officers had been injured up to that day. Many of the picketing scenes were disgraceful over the previous months leading up to that day not to mention the intimidation and violence that took place away from the picket lines. Orgreave was completely wrong but nothing happens in a vacuum. |
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Post by elystokie on Feb 2, 2024 15:56:26 GMT
I agree and it's a disgrace that not a single police officer faced any disciplinary action for their actions that day or for lying in court. Telling that the prosecution counsel basically gave up because the overwhelming evidence contradicted the charges brought. To force a group of people into an area and charge them with rioting because they're in that area is very, very low. Whilst you are absolutely correct regarding Orgreave you have to wonder just how many police officers had been injured up to that day. Many of the picketing scenes were disgraceful over the previous months leading up to that day not to mention the intimidation and violence that took place away from the picket lines. Orgreave was completely wrong but nothing happens in a vacuum. It would be interesting to see a comparison of the numbers injured (and the relative scale of injuries incurred) from each side. Regardless of that, there is no excuse for the corruption that followed Orgreave and the numerous attempts to pervert the course of justice by the very people paid to uphold it. |
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Post by milton58 on Feb 2, 2024 17:48:16 GMT
Whilst you are absolutely correct regarding Orgreave you have to wonder just how many police officers had been injured up to that day. Many of the picketing scenes were disgraceful over the previous months leading up to that day not to mention the intimidation and violence that took place away from the picket lines. Orgreave was completely wrong but nothing happens in a vacuum. It would be interesting to see a comparison of the numbers injured (and the relative scale of injuries incurred) from each side. Regardless of that, there is no excuse for the corruption that followed Orgreave and the numerous attempts to pervert the course of justice by the very people paid to uphold it. my Oldman was a victim of the police at orgreave couldn't imagine him ever being violent or aggressive cause I never witnessed it growing up but he came home from orgreave with a broken nose and a 5mm gash on the bridge of his nose a police officer thought it would be good if he got his shield and ram it down into his face....got to say he never mentioned it again after that day...also growing up in the late 70s and early 80s the police twats anything to do with football and that was it you were scum no matter what...tbh they lost all of my respect back then and my opinion of them hasn't changed over the last 40 odd years |
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Post by Davef on Feb 2, 2024 19:34:24 GMT
The plethora of cameramen and film crews behind the police lines told you everything you need to know and looking back at the news coverage of the Battle of Orgreave in last night's episode shows that little has changed in the last 40 years. You're given the official line and little else.
No surprises that the same police force were responsible for the Hillsborough disaster just under five years later.
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Post by felonious on Feb 9, 2024 13:04:51 GMT
I thought that last night's episode was both incredibly interesting and revealing especially that featuring the voice of the Union of Democratic Mineworkers. Repeated time and time again that Scargill did everything to avoid a National ballet which even the top brass in Nottingham were begging for in order to legitimately join the strike.
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Post by elystokie on Feb 9, 2024 16:55:38 GMT
I thought that last night's episode was both incredibly interesting and revealing especially that featuring the voice of the Union of Democratic Mineworkers. Repeated time and time again that Scargill did everything to avoid a National ballet which even the top brass in Nottingham were begging for in order to legitimately join the strike. Can't really blame Scargill, he'd have looked ridiculous in a tutu 😉😄 |
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Post by felonious on Feb 9, 2024 18:34:33 GMT
I thought that last night's episode was both incredibly interesting and revealing especially that featuring the voice of the Union of Democratic Mineworkers. Repeated time and time again that Scargill did everything to avoid a National ballet which even the top brass in Nottingham were begging for in order to legitimately join the strike. Can't really blame Scargill, he'd have looked ridiculous in a tutu 😉😄 Well with that haircut you may be right  |
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Post by lordb on Feb 10, 2024 9:55:41 GMT
The plethora of cameramen and film crews behind the police lines told you everything you need to know and looking back at the news coverage of the Battle of Orgreave in last night's episode shows that little has changed in the last 40 years. You're given the official line and little else. No surprises that the same police force were responsible for the Hillsborough disaster just under five years later. Was under the impression the Met were bussed up for the day? |
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Post by suck_the_mop. on Feb 10, 2024 11:27:25 GMT
I wasn't particularly fond of the miners as a youngster partly because my dad was a coalman (and obviously needed coal to deliver to his customers to keep food on our table) and getting any coal on any given day from down the wharf was hard when you would have the 'nice' miners saying to you "no coal today mate were having a day off" as we passed them by nipping in for a cuppa at the pit head canteen, the canteen itself was partitioned so as not to mix with the 'dirty' coalmen and they all seemed to think they ran the country suppose they did in a way. But that orgreave was the biggest put up job going lured into the place surrounded then attacked without reason it seemed, no hail of bricks or anything was there,then the absolute shenanigans going on to fit them up was /is disgraceful, we knew what plod could be like at football half the time causing the mither then having the reason to sort it out.. remember in the oatcake the character pc ruck? Sums them up, end of the day this was a power struggle between Thatcher and scargill none of them particularly nice people just both out for their own gain with us and miners used as pawns should of just locked them in a room together until they sorted it out and let the people just get on with it.. ps i don't dislike miners just how i saw it as a youngster know loads of ex miners and families most are good people just how it seemed at the time.
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Post by elystokie on Feb 10, 2024 12:00:56 GMT
I wasn't particularly fond of the miners as a youngster partly because my dad was a coalman (and obviously needed coal to deliver to his customers to keep food on our table) and getting any coal on any given day from down the wharf was hard when you would have the 'nice' miners saying to you "no coal today mate were having a day off" as we passed them by nipping in for a cuppa at the pit head canteen, the canteen itself was partitioned so as not to mix with the 'dirty' coalmen and they all seemed to think they ran the country suppose they did in a way. But that orgreave was the biggest put up job going lured into the place surrounded then attacked without reason it seemed, no hail of bricks or anything was there,then the absolute shenanigans going on to fit them up was /is disgraceful, we knew what plod could be like at football half the time causing the mither then having the reason to sort it out.. remember in the oatcake the character pc ruck? Sums them up, end of the day this was a power struggle between Thatcher and scargill none of them particularly nice people just both out for their own gain with us and miners used as pawns should of just locked them in a room together until they sorted it out and let the people just get on with it.. ps i don't dislike miners just how i saw it as a youngster know loads of ex miners and families most are good people just how it seemed at the time. I'm guessing your Dad worked for an independent coal merchant? My Dad was a coalman for the coal board, they were under the TGWU so weren't on strike, think they still delivered, the miners wouldn't have wanted their own free coal not arriving at their homes. One thing that went a good way to fucking them over for me was the 'bonus deal'* in the late 70s, I worked for the NCB at the time, some of the take home pays were huge but it enabled a big stock of reserves to be built up. *Which for me should have been more concentrated on giving the coalface workers more, they were the ones who really earned their crust. |
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Post by suck_the_mop. on Feb 10, 2024 12:47:19 GMT
I wasn't particularly fond of the miners as a youngster partly because my dad was a coalman (and obviously needed coal to deliver to his customers to keep food on our table) and getting any coal on any given day from down the wharf was hard when you would have the 'nice' miners saying to you "no coal today mate were having a day off" as we passed them by nipping in for a cuppa at the pit head canteen, the canteen itself was partitioned so as not to mix with the 'dirty' coalmen and they all seemed to think they ran the country suppose they did in a way. But that orgreave was the biggest put up job going lured into the place surrounded then attacked without reason it seemed, no hail of bricks or anything was there,then the absolute shenanigans going on to fit them up was /is disgraceful, we knew what plod could be like at football half the time causing the mither then having the reason to sort it out.. remember in the oatcake the character pc ruck? Sums them up, end of the day this was a power struggle between Thatcher and scargill none of them particularly nice people just both out for their own gain with us and miners used as pawns should of just locked them in a room together until they sorted it out and let the people just get on with it.. ps i don't dislike miners just how i saw it as a youngster know loads of ex miners and families most are good people just how it seemed at the time. I'm guessing your Dad worked for an independent coal merchant? My Dad was a coalman for the coal board, they were under the TGWU so weren't on strike, think they still delivered, the miners wouldn't have wanted their own free coal not arriving at their homes. One thing that went a good way to fucking them over for me was the 'bonus deal'* in the late 70s, I worked for the NCB at the time, some of the take home pays were huge but it enabled a big stock of reserves to be built up. *Which for me should have been more concentrated on giving the coalface workers more, they were the ones who really earned their crust. It was his own business mate could never get any coal, the coalboard coalmen would get 1st dibs on any coal available like you say members fires would always be lit, a very strange time. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 10, 2024 13:44:10 GMT
The plethora of cameramen and film crews behind the police lines told you everything you need to know and looking back at the news coverage of the Battle of Orgreave in last night's episode shows that little has changed in the last 40 years. You're given the official line and little else. No surprises that the same police force were responsible for the Hillsborough disaster just under five years later. Was under the impression the Met were bussed up for the day? Some were. A friend of mine's dad was a member of the Met and brags to this day about getting paid double time for being bussed up to Yorkshire to kick the shit out of some striking miners. |
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Post by skip on Feb 10, 2024 13:44:28 GMT
When Thatcher politicised the police, and sanctioned the buying of council houses, breaking any notion of working class solidarity.
And the country has never looked back...
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Post by Veritas on Feb 10, 2024 19:39:51 GMT
When Thatcher politicised the police, and sanctioned the buying of council houses, breaking any notion of working class solidarity. And the country has never looked back... Because it's all roses now! |
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Post by atillathehoneybee on Feb 11, 2024 16:57:47 GMT
What channel was it on.
Is it a repeat of the one made 20 years ago...
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Post by felonious on Feb 11, 2024 17:11:20 GMT
What channel was it on. Is it a repeat of the one made 20 years ago... Channel 4 documentaries. |
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Post by Orbs on Feb 11, 2024 17:21:54 GMT
Very interesting programme last night showing the perspective from both sides of the divide based on events at Shirebrook. Scargill's lads last night would have made 70s hooligans blush This still causes aggro between Forest and Sheffield Utd (maybe Wednesday too?) Sounds quite intellectual though. Might give it a go. I’ll send a PM if there are any complicated bits 😉 |
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Post by felonious on Feb 11, 2024 17:53:42 GMT
Very interesting programme last night showing the perspective from both sides of the divide based on events at Shirebrook. Scargill's lads last night would have made 70s hooligans blush This still causes aggro between Forest and Sheffield Utd (maybe Wednesday too?) Sounds quite intellectual though. Might give it a go. I’ll send a PM if there are any complicated bits 😉 If you get stuck put it on the Saint orbs thread I'm sure on of your followers will be along in no time |
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Post by felonious on Feb 11, 2024 18:02:24 GMT
Very interesting programme last night showing the perspective from both sides of the divide based on events at Shirebrook. Scargill's lads last night would have made 70s hooligans blush This still causes aggro between Forest and Sheffield Utd (maybe Wednesday too?) Sounds quite intellectual though. Might give it a go. I’ll send a PM if there are any complicated bits 😉 Just shy of 75% of Nottinghamshire miners voted against the strike followed by up to 5,000 flying pickets, violence, intimidation then the NUM calling everyone out without a National Ballot. |
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